What exactly is the procedure for selling guns to someone out of state?

[El Rojo]

Here is the situation. My friend wants to sell his pretty much new Ruger 77/17 HMR custom gun to fund another project. My understanding of federal laws is this. If someone out of state wants to buy the gun, first, we must transfer the gun to our local FFL in the PRK. Then our local dealer would then transfer it to the dealer out of state. Then the buyer would do whatever he has to do with his dealer to take possession of the gun. The buyer can send the funds directly to us first right?

My gun dealer had never had a request like this before so he thought maybe my friend could send his gun directly to the dealer out of state. For some reason that doesn't make sense to me and I believe we would have to relinquish it to a FFL then have it sent to another FFL.

The only other concern I have and you guys might be able to give me some feedback on this one. Once I receive certified funds, what happens if the buyer doesn't pass a background check to receive the gun from his local dealer? I doubt that would happen, but any recommendations on how I can make sure the buyer can take possession and everyone will be happy? The last thing I want to happen is the gun shows up at the out of state dealer and then the deal goes bad. I would have to refund money, have the gun sent back, and it wouldn't be fun. My first precaution would be to simply ask the buyer if the FFL they are going to use has done a transfer for them before. Then call up the FFL and verify it with him on an informal level.

Thanks for your help everyone.

 

[Graystar]

I can't speak of California law, but I can tell you what you need to check.

There are three sets of laws that need to be resolved in order to do this...Federal law, California law, and the laws of the state you are shipping to.

Federal law is the easiest. If you are shipping a gun out of state then it must be shipped to an FFL. You may ship it yourself. You cannot use the USPS. Long guns can be shipped UPS ground.

Next to resolve is the law in the originating state. If the gun is registered by serial number, then most likely the state also has laws defining the procedures for acquiring and disposing of guns. If the firearm doesn't need to be registered then, most likely, you simply need to follow the federal laws when transferring. For example, in Idaho I could simply hand a person a gun and say "It's yours." Also, I could UPS a gun myself to an FFL in another state. However, here in New York I can only transfer a firearm to a NY dealer or another handgun licensee. The transfer is recorded by the police.

Last to resolve is the law in the receiving state. In almost every state, an FFL can receive a gun and it's no problem. In New York, at least, an FFL (which btw, would also need to be licensed by New York as a firearms dealer, and as such subject to the rules thereof,) must note the authority under which the firearm was previously possessed. As such, New York FFL only receive out of state firearms from FFLs. Interestingly, there is no law that states this explicitly. However, the situation arises from a collusion of several laws, which results in leaving a dealer open to criminal investigations if he can't prove that the previous owner was a legal owner.

So those are the points you need to be sure of. Fortunately for you, long guns tend to be much easier to handle. Even New Yorkers (except in NYC) can ship long guns (and FFLs receive them) with no legal issues.

As for the transfer of money, the authorities don't give that any consideration at all. The money can be sent directly to you.

As for the buyer's situation...I would consider it to be his problem. Personally, once I've shipped the gun and received money for it, I consider the gun sold. If the buyer can't take possession of it then he will have to make arrangements to sell it to the FFL or sell it on consignment, or find another buyer for it. In any case, I personally would consider it to be his problem. If you want to be a nice guy, then take the gun back and give a refund minus the return-shipping fee, your FFL transfer fee (because it must be mailed to an FFL,) and 5 or 10 percent for your trouble.

One final note is that, technically, federal law allows the FFL, that you shipped the gun to, to return it to the originating address without going through an FFL. There may be a requirement that he be a gunsmith or manufacturer...I'm not 100% sure. Many dealers will work on guns as well, so it's rarely a problem. So, if there is a problem with the buyer and you have to take the gun back you can probably save the FFL transfer fee.

Good luck!

 

[Monkeyleg]

I've been through this several times, and it's not a big deal. Of course, I don't live in California and don't know the laws there.

Your friend does not have to ship through a FFL. He can ship directly to the buyer's FFL. He should get an signed copy of the FFL that he is shipping to. If it makes your friend feel more comfortable, he can go ahead and have his local dealer handle the shipping.

As far as payment goes, I've always gotten payment (or sent payment, when I was buying) and then the gun was shipped. The agreement was to allow a three-day inspection period and, if there was a problem, the buyer would ship the gun back at his own cost and the seller would refund the money.

If your friend is nervous about this, what about putting the gun up for a "buy it now for $x" auction on gunbroker.com? The buyer could then grab the "buy it now" offer, and the deal would be done. It would be the same process that I described above, but it might make one or both parties more comfortable going through a commercial exchange like gunbroker.com where these types of deals are done all the time.

 

[El Rojo]

Thanks for your help so far guys. Good points to go by.

The problem with auction is you don't know what you are going to get for it (except when using buy it now) and we are trying to avoid having to pay some money to the third party. Consignment and auctons have costs that either get eaten by the seller or passed on to the buyer. In both cases not good.

 

[Graystar]

Gunbroker's fee is pretty small. Just go to their site and review their fee schedule. Also, you can set a minimum price for bidding, so you can be sure to get what you want (if anyone bids on it, of course.)

I sold a gun through Gunbroker and it was an easy experience. I recommend it.