What good can a handgun do against an Army?

[RedLion]

Now, that being said, Americans are the most intelligent and resourceful people in the world. There is no comparison between the capabilities of the incompetent bafoons in Iraq and A-stan and what Americans would be capable of. Just look at all the knowledge and armament contained within the 30,000 members here.

Strambo, I hope your joking. I can't see why you would believe that a human from one part of the world is any "smarter" than a human from another.

I do think it is interesting that rebellions naturally gravitate toward the unconventional type of warfare almost without any effort. This article talking about the use of pistols in a war fought with planes, tanks, and machine guns. And in Vietnam with booby traps and tunnel systems where jets and bombers were favorited. And now Iraq and Afghanistan with IEDs and RPGs where smart-bombs and satellites are the main attractions. Maybe the future insurgencies will be fought over computer networks where space planes are the new military wonder.

 

[gallo]

You have to be a citizen for the amendment to apply to you, if your not a citizen then you have no rights.

There is a thing called the Geneva Convention. Of course, Bush and cronies circumvented it by calling POWs enemy combatants. The Supreme Court and a federal court have declared the indefinite imprisonment of enemy combatants unconstitutional.

Our system of checks and balances is precisely for this purpose: To prevent any one government branch from over stepping their authority.

You may not like the decision, but you can't assume a person is guilty without due process. This implicitly applies to prisoners, foreign or domestic, considered enemies of the state. How else would you know? Gut feel? The islamo-fascist governments don’t believe in due processes. The US is above that.

 

[tmajors]

You have to be a citizen for the amendment to apply to you, if your not a citizen then you have no rights.

Incorrect. You do not have to be a citizen for amendments to apply to you. You do however have to be at least on United States soil (national, territorial, or provincial). You can even be here illegally and the Bill of Rights still applies to you.

The only Right truly reserved to citizens only is the Right to Vote.

 

[230RN]

I suspect a .22LR rifle would be better in the premised application than any pistol.

Right?

Wrong?

 

[ProficientRifleman]

Amprecon said:

I would venture to say that at the very least there are 1 million active hunters in this country that hunt with a scoped rifle and most are very proficient with them.

I would tend to agree!!

 

[MakAttak]

There is a thing called the Geneva Convention. Of course, Bush and cronies circumvented it by calling POWs enemy combatants. The Supreme Court and a federal court have declared the indefinite imprisonment of enemy combatants unconstitutional.

Actually they didn't (cirumvent it).

The Geneva convention applies to regular army members. Terrorists are not. They have no protections under the Geneva convention, and, as they are fighting in civilian clothes, they can be shot summarily (under the Geneva convention).

You can argue about the morality of holding these prisoners, but you cannot claim legal protections that do not exist.

 

[22-rimfire]

Americans would have to feel desperate and most do not now to fight against an army, any army. That could change pretty quickly when a couple nuclear warheads hit a few cities.

I'd say there are a lot more than 1 million active hunters in the USA based on license sales. Few buy a license that don't own or have access to a firearm.

 

[gallo]

The Geneva convention applies to regular army members. Terrorists are not.

How do you know they are terrorist without due process? For all we know, a Blackwater team of jarheads rounded up a bunch of pesants and shipped them to Guantanamo.

 

[makarovnik]

Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[Owen]

Quote:
The six amendment guarantees a due process. Again, this applies even to enemy combatants. For if we deny them this right, we stand to lose it ourselves.

You have to be a citizen for the amendment to apply to you, if your not a citizen then you have no rights.

How is it that only US citizens receive God-given rights?

 

[Fast_Ed]

More than a million licensed hunters??

There are more than 600,000 DEER HUNTERS in Wisconsin alone! 600,000 armed men and women with at least a minimal comfort level with a centerfire rifle just in the state of Wisconsin. Add in Texas and Pennsylvania which fill out the top three deer hunting states, and you have more than 2,000,000, in just three states. This isn't counting Michigan, Minnesota, Colorado, the rest of the bread belt and the mountain states, or the south.

That's why the nightmare scenario won't happen. Too high a cost to the oppressors. Armed, forceable oppression won't happen. And why should it? They are doing a bang-up job just by one little cut at a time. Death by a thousand cuts. Boiling a frog. The analogies are the same and it is exactly how it is happening right now.

Figure out how to stop it now, or be prepared to look out one day and wonder how the hell it happened.

Fast Ed

 

[gallo]

Exactly Fast Ed,

If every 2nd amendment supporter fought as adamantly for the rest of the bill of right, this country would be in better shape. If society turns a blind eye to the government abusing the rights of certain groups because it disagrees with their religious belief, then it's only a matter of time before we end up in the McCarthyism days. I have absolutely no sympathy for alleged terrorist, but I'd dare not turn a blind eye their 6 amendment rights lest the state may start a witch hunt inquisition.

 

[shdwfx]

(sorry, please delete. I was replying to the off-topic discussion on foreign combatants. I'd rather not contribute to getting this thread locked.)

 

[lazyeye]

The question isn't whether or not the weapons and tactics work, or if there are enough people.

At the risk of crossing that invisible line...

The question is: what is the triggering mechanism?
At what point do you take these actions? When its something you hear about on the radio? When its something thats happening in your state? What about when your neighbor has his confiscated?
Do you WAIT until the men in black are knocking on YOUR door before you do something about it?

Think about it. Each man has to know his own answer.

 

[joop]

i'd like to chip in one more thing about the guy who said:

You have to be a citizen for the amendment to apply to you, if your not a citizen then you have no rights.

Said person should take a look at the Bill of Rights:
Amendment 14, Section 1:

nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

 

[yokel]

The fact that the same Gang of Four criminal usurpers and traitors masquerading as "justices" who dissented in District of Columbia v. Heller also comprised the majority in Boumediene v. Bush is no coincidence.

No treaty and no American practice in any previous war have ever extended rights of due process to captured enemy prisoners.

Anyone who says an insurgency armed with old rifles and home-made weapons can't fight a modern army needs to as any 20 year old Iraq vet about that. And the Iraqi insurgency is infinitesimal in comparison to American gun owners.

Our adversary appears to be doing better in the armament dept. than your typical American gun owner:

 

[burningsquirrels]

sorry i haven't read the rest of that thread, but the written article in the OP is a very excellently written piece.

 

[joop]

wish i knew how to quote

yokel:
the BILL OF RIGHTS specifically says that ANYONE UNDER U.S. JURISDICTION must be given EQUAL PROTECTION.

read Amendment 14, Section 1.

 

[nutty7462]

Enemies of freedom deserve no due process, that "right" is only granted to American citizens not our enemies.
If they want legal protection under the United States Constitution, legally become an American, otherwise, attack us and get killed.
For them, a quick end is our best defense.

Why the h*ll are people wanting to protect the enemy under the U.S. Constitution as if they're Americans?

Shoot 'em already!!!!!

The Consitution of the United States does not grant rights to citizens. It is a pronouncement of the innate rights of men- ALL men (and women). To deny some men their innate rights is to deny liberty herself. Principles cannot be selectively applied.

 

[yokel]

If we are at war, then the rules of warfare permit us to capture enemy prisoners, such as al Qaeda, a foreign terrorist organization that seeks to replace American allies in the Middle East with radical fundamentalist Islamic regimes, and to hold them until the end of the conflict. Detention removes enemies from the fight and permits their interrogation for information. It is not a punishment, so the laws of war have never required lawyers or judicial review for enemy prisoners.

 

[Pilgrim]

Quote:
What good can a handgun do against an Army?
Decapitate it's leadership.

The Army's logistic base is not armed and hardened.

Pilgrim

 

[MAKster]

I think a lot of people are living in fantasy land if they think there is going to be a rebellion in the U.S. If - and I repeat if - the U.S. Government became an authoritative regime it would happen with the CONSENT of the MAJORITY of Americans. Authoritative leaders come to power as populists. Over time crises be they economic, terrorist, foreign war, or the result of corruption lead the government to declare "special emergency powers" to overcome these temporary situations. The overwhelming majority of people will support this because they want to be safe and continue their comfortable lives. The middle class will continue to enjoy prosperous lives and will look the other way or be totally oblivious to the problems and abuses. The U.S. is far to properous for people to take up arms against the government. Even the poorest people in the U.S. accept their fate and try to make the best of it. If you want to head into the jungle like FARC and lead a 40 year guerrilla war you be in the tiny minority.

 

[TexasSkyhawk]

You may not like the decision, but you can't assume a person is guilty without due process. This implicitly applies to prisoners, foreign or domestic, considered enemies of the state.

How do you know they are terrorist without due process? For all we know, a Blackwater team of jarheads rounded up a bunch of pesants and shipped them to Guantanamo.

Gallo,

I'm really, really trying to restrain myself since I've been there and you obviously haven't.

By your faulty logic, every enemy I dispatched during my time in uniform was denied due process--even though some of them were wearing clothing made by DuPont (whom we used to call "not-so-smart bombs).

Were the nice chaps who flew into our World Trade Center terrorists, or just misunderstood? According to your flawed logic, we'll never know because they never received due process.

But then again, neither did 3,000+ innocent men, women and children, including those held hostage on the doomed airliners.

I would also respectfully ask that you display a little respect for those Marines you refer to as "Blackwater team of jarheads."

If you wish to spit on a soldier, it would be preferable for you to spit directly in their face so that they can return the favor.

The Taliban and Al-Queda are examples of insurgency replete with effective organization and tactics. A long time ago, I fought against the Sandanistas in Central America. Cuban and Russian trained, these folks were pussycats compared to the terrorists our men and women are fighting today.

For a pistol to succeed against an Army, one must know the tactics of the Army one is aiming at, and use those tactics against them--more ferociously and mercilessly than that which is being employed against they who hold the pistol.

Jeff

 

[joop]

I agree with Makster--there will never be armed rebellion in the US because of the whole "bread and circuses" junk. Hopefully, politicans will stop pissing on the Constitution and stand up to corporations and do what's right.

Also, in regard to handguns vs army, just look at any case of guerilla warfare against a conventional army.

 

[gallo]

TexasSkyhawk,

By your faulty logic, every enemy I dispatched during my time in uniform was denied due process--even though some of them were wearing clothing made by DuPont (whom we used to call "not-so-smart bombs).

That is not my logic. Remember, my argument is regarding the 6th amendment, so it only applies to those enemy combatants that are imprisoned. The government needs to present charges accompanied by evidence against them or release them back to their country.

Were the nice chaps who flew into our World Trade Center terrorists, or just misunderstood? According to your flawed logic, we'll never know because they never received due process.

Again, if any had survived, I'm sure the government would have pressed charges and a court would have decided their sentence. The master minds are currently under trial.

I would also respectfully ask that you display a little respect for those Marines you refer to as "Blackwater team of jarheads."

If you wish to spit on a soldier, it would be preferable for you to spit directly in their face so that they can return the favor.

It has never been my intention to diminish the role of our fine soldiers. I was not aware that the term jarhead was offensive to marines since they are the ones who coined it. Blackwater personnel are often ex-mariness (emphasis on EX), so I don't see how my comment would be offensive to a current marine. In any case, my apologies to the honorable men and women of our armed forces if they find my comment offensive.

I find it ironic that when I express a legitimate concern about not turning a blind eye to the 6th amendment, even when it has to be applied to unlikeable alleged terrorist, you have to exercise restrain. Yet you fought for the liberty of this country as it is embodied by the Bill of Rights.