What happened to the Hebrew terrorist groups in what is now Israel?

[Joejojoba111]

I was watching some history show, and they glitted over problems of the time period, and one of them was frequent attacks on the British and Palestinians by Jewish terrorist organizations in the late 1940's early 1950's?

This was news, radical news, I'd never considered it before. What does it mean? Are the terrorists gone, or were they integrated into the government? Stuff like that. Because if terrorism worked, and then the terrorists were promoted, that would be bad news. It's bad news either way because those guys are probably a learning aid for other modern groups.

 

[RevDisk]

It's not considered politically correct to bring up such things, you know.

 

[Art Eatman]

I forget his name, but the leader of the Irgun became the first President of Israel. I doubt that he was as tough, though, as that housewife from Chicago, Golda Meir.

Sorta like the Mau Mau and Kenya, as far as first president. Or, the US and Father George...

, Art

 

[carebear]

The Haganah and Irgun were co-opted into the IDF on statehood by BenGurion and others, not without some internal bloodletting.

Can't have independent armed groups running around when you are trying to form a State and negotiate with outside potentially friendly powers (especially the Brits).

I recommend the book "The Sword and the Olive"; it covers the backstory and development of the IDF, warts and all.

 

[The Grand Inquisitor]

You're thinking of Menachem Begin.

If you are interested in discrediting Jews (like many here are fond of doing) look into the Aliyah's (Jews coming into Israel), as they tended to be violent at times, as was the entire founding of the nation.

I'm surprised no one has been honest enough to admit that terrorism works, especially for the powerful.

 

[carebear]

There was a lot more to the Brit's leaving Palestine than Jewish terrorism.

They cover that in the book as well.

 

[Joejojoba111]

Not interested in discrediting or anything, just don't want to feel intimidated to not post anything that's not 100% supportive of Israel.

I thought it was a particularly interesting situation for a huge number of reasons, completely totally relevant to today's situation. And with what people say was the follow-through, it's a success story to all the wrong people!

 

[carebear]

There's a Shakespearean line that "if treason win out, none dare call it treason". Which I'm sure I'm mangling.

If you pull off a rebellion and succeed you get to call your leaders "Founding Fathers". Ben Gurion no less than Washington.

Course, the Jews had fewer guns and rounds of ammo in Jeruselum than I have in my garage, so they get a lot of credit for pulling out a win in '47.

Not that the IDF has always lived up to their press clippings.

 

[rms/pa]

the haganah and the palmach were illegal army formations prior to "48
the terrs were the stern gang and the irgun. both were MUCH smaller than the haganah or palmach.

during the "48 war of independence the irgun fielded a formation of troops which got wiped out ,largely due to poor training/leadership. ben gurion then rolled all armed forces into the army.

the survivors of the stern gang and irgun had various post independence results, some were betrayed and shot ,like the mad dogs they were, some were elected to public office and some went to work for the mossad and/or aliyah.

keep in mind there was ,and still is. a strong collectivist/socialist political strain in israel and the political disputes get energetic.

rms/pa

 

[Art Eatman]

The 1945 Newsreels of the liberation of the Nazi concentration and death camps were--I guess--what led to my interest in the 1948 UN vote on the creation of Israel. Even as a teeny-bopper I followed the numerous Life Magazine articles about Israel, Jordan and Lebanon and the Palestinian refugee camps.

Knowing that Jews as a group were crapped on, all over Europe and in Russia, pretty much gained my sympathy for them. Nothing to do with any sort of Zionism; just a favoring of the underdog.

I guess my big objection to a lot of folks' bum-rapping Israel is that too often folks talke a snapshot of an instant in time and pretend it's all there is to a long history.

Art

 

[bakert]

Think David Ben Gurion(? ) the first leader. Menachem Begin even alarmed the Israelis at times from what I've read. Also counterpart Arab was Anwar Sadat among others. They were mostly all terrorists on both sides but it's all history now anyway. Some of them even awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

[CAnnoneer]

Along that line of thought, don't forget Algiers and the French.

But, we should make a BIG distinction too - AQ has no problem roasting Arab civilians to promote their anti-west ideas. In fact, they would gladly kill 100 Iraqis so long as the bomb also gets one GI. I think this is terrorism on a whole new level than what the Algierians and Israeli did

What I do not understand is how come BBC and even US media do not spend more time covering this little detail. It is a gold mine for discrediting AQ within the Islamic world.

 

[roo_ster]

The Jewish terrorist organizations' existence has not been swept under the rug. I beleive I read about them in several histories, Chaim Hettzog's Arab-Israeli Wars, being one source. Also, the Jewish "insurgent" groups of pre-Israeli state & estabilshment war times have been covered in popular fiction. Leon Uris's The Haj and Exodus as well as the movie version of Exodus being just three examples.

I think their most famous attack was the bombing of hte King David hotel, which killed a lot of Brits, who heavily favored the Arabs.

They pretty much went out of business after the war for hte establishment of Israel.

 

[svtruth]

Terrorists

IIRC Begin couldn't or wouldn't go to the UK bc he had thrun a bomb into teh King David Hotel and killed some British soldiers.
Happy to be corrected by someone better informed.

 

[RevDisk]

David Ben Gurion ordered the bombing at the King David Hotel and then allegedly cancelled it. Menachem Begin carried it out anyways. Ben Gurion tried to have Begin killed by firing on the Altalena. Begin also was instrimental in forming the Herut party, which became the Likud party.

Amusingly, Begin not only became a PM of Israel, he also was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. From civilian-killing terrorist to Nobel Peace Prize winner.

 

[Cosmoline]

Frankly Jewish terrorism did nothing to further the creation of the state of Israel. Indeed it forced the UK to react with crackdowns and delayed statehood. The Pals and their buds over here love to cite these isolated cases fifty years ago as justification for the thousands upon thousands of terrorist slaughters over the past decades. But it is interesting to note that the Arab reliance on terror hasn't gotten them very far. The states that still embrace it, along with the Pals, are backwards crud holes "in hell's zip code." The states that have rejected it or at least distanced themselves from terror, are doing a lot better.

 

[Joejojoba111]

I generally don't believe in judging people by their surrounding infrastructure or whatnot, because not too long ago great relatives were living in sod houses...

"Frankly Jewish terrorism did nothing to further the creation of the state of Israel."

Seems to me it would polzrize opinion, there would be no middle ground. And as a result a lot more people would be firmly against creating a state there. However a whole bunch of fence-sitters would suddenly be in favor too. Because when debate is polarized if you don't firmly take a side then both sides hate you.

But it has to be disconcerting for Israeli strategists when infitata started happening, lol. "Ok what did the British do when we acted out?" "Umm, they gave us what we wanted and buggered off..."

 

[Rebar]

"Ok what did the British do when we acted out?" "Umm, they gave us what we wanted and buggered off..."

Then again, the British didn't have to live there.

 

[Cosmoline]

And the Brits weren't planning on staying anyway. They didn't do anything other than what they were going to do anyway--which is leave. Palestine was a protectorate not a colony. It was not a big money earner for the empire like India. All the terrorist attacks on the UK did was leave a bad taste in the British mouth that is still remembered to this day and has a negative impact on UK-Israel foreign relations.

 

[Kurush]

Amusingly, Begin not only became a PM of Israel, he also was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. From civilian-killing terrorist to Nobel Peace Prize winner.

He's in good company. They awarded it to Henry Kissinger in 1973, the same year he staged a coup in Chile, overthrowing its democratic government. Two years later he gave Indonesia the green light to invade East Timor and massacre 200,000 civilians. Let's not even talk about the two UN awards, one for Kofi "Oil for Food for Cash" Annan and another for the child-molesting war criminal Peacekeepers. I figure by 2010 or so the Janjaweed ethnic cleansers will have finished killing everyone in Darfur, so they can renounce their evil ways and pick up a Nobel.

 

[BryanP]

There's a Shakespearean line that "if treason win out, none dare call it treason". Which I'm sure I'm mangling.

Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
- Sir John Harington , Of Treason--Epigrams (bk. IV, ep. V)

 

[carebear]

Not only mangled but misassigned as well?

Way to go me!

 

[toivo]

It's a common phenomenon in revolutions and armed struggles for independence, statehood, whatever: After the fighting is done, the politicos purge the fighters from their ranks. The IRA is doing it right now. I'd bet that Ben Gurion and Begin never actually touched a bomb.