What hunts should I be planning now for me and my son?

[wombat13]

My son is 9 yo. He's been going hunting with me since he was 6, but until this year it was mostly walking in the woods and riding the ATV. This year he sat quietly with me for a few hours at a time and we got a deer together. He is showing a great deal of interest now.

He will be able to deer, bear, and turkey hunt here in NY when he turns 12. We will be ramping up the bow and rifle practice this year to start preparing to hunt.

We talk about hunting big game out of state - all the usual - pronghorn, elk, moose, bear, sheep, goat. We'd likely enjoy hunting any mammal. I know very little about hunting out-of-state, but I know it can take years to draw tags for some of the popular and rare big game.

So which hunts/locations should I be planning? Why? In particular, which hunts should I be "buying points" now?

Thanks in advance for all suggestions.

 

[Patocazador]

A Wyoming antelope hunt usually doesn't require any points to draw in many areas. However, the ranges tend to be long due to little cover for stalking. Antelope are not hard to kill but they are a smaller target than a NY buck. When your son can make an accurate 200 yard shot, it's time to go west.

 

[wombat13]

A Wyoming antelope hunt usually doesn't require any points to draw in many areas. However, the ranges tend to be long due to little cover for stalking. Antelope are not hard to kill but they are a smaller target than a NY buck. When your son can make an accurate 200 yard shot, it's time to go west.

Thanks. I know we’ll have to practice longer shots. We hunt mostly woods. I’ve shot two deer beyond 150 yards. One at 180 and one at 220.

Edited to add: Those are the only shots I’ve taken beyond 150 yards and hit both in the vitals. We just don’t get many opportunities for long shots.

 

[stillquietvoice]

You could look jnto a Pennsylvania elk hunt they do have a hunt able population. Not sure on all of the details, or Maine moose, fairly close and likely less expensive than going out west.

 

[wombat13]

You could look jnto a Pennsylvania elk hunt they do have a hunt able population. Not sure on all of the details, or Maine moose, fairly close and likely less expensive than going out west.

Thanks. I’ll look at both. I expect that the travel costs will be a small part of the total, so I’m not worried about how far we have to go (until we are taking a different continent).

 

[GooseGestapo]

You need to get busy.
Most Western states are open now for applications for the license lottery for 2023 seasons.
They close in February! Tags have to be prepaid for, and aren’t cheap!
Can easily run over $1,000.00 ! Per state!
I’ll be putting in for Utah, Wyoming, and Colorado... last year I didn’t get drawn anywhere. It sometimes takes years of priority points to get drawn as a nonresident!

 

[courtgreene]

I too have a nine year old. I’m asking the same question. My goal is to do something big when he’s 12 or 13. I’m thinking Colorado elk, but Wyoming is more appealing to me. I very much liked Wyoming when I drove through it to hunt in Colorado. It seems silly when we live in a place covered in elk, but they are not yet a huntable population, and when they become one, it’ll cost huge money to “draw” a tag.
(Disclaimer: I actually do think the nc wildlife folk know what they’re doing and support them 100%. The politicians that will rig a draw for the highest bidder once the day comes that there’s a draw, not so much.)

 

[wombat13]

You need to get busy.
Most Western states are open now for applications for the license lottery for 2023 seasons.
They close in February! Tags have to be prepaid for, and aren’t cheap!
Can easily run over $1,000.00 ! Per state!
I’ll be putting in for Utah, Wyoming, and Colorado... last year I didn’t get drawn anywhere. It sometimes takes years of priority points to get drawn as a nonresident!

It’s $1,000 to enter the lottery with low probability of drawing a tag? So, most likely several thousand before drawing one tag?

 

[Chuck R.]

In particular, which hunts should I be "buying points" now?

Sheep, goat, moose and elk, are one of those "best time to start buying points was 10 years ago, next best times today" type deals. Elk aren't that bad, unless you want a really, really, cool area.

Pronghorn's pretty easy, 2-3pts will get you a really good area in WY. Depending on the draw area, you may never see goat or sheep tag just due to the odds.

It’s $1,000 to enter the lottery with low probability of drawing a tag? So, most likely several thousand before drawing one tag?

It's not quite that bad, but can be. A lot of points are in the $35-80 dollar range, so for a 5Pt requirement, you could be into it for $400 before drawing. One thing to keep in mind, most states have portions of their draws for folks with zero points!

MT for example publishes their draw success rates so you have an idea what to expect:

https://myfwp.mt.gov/fwpPub/drawingStatistics

Each state has their own rules, which are somewhat complex, CO for instance won't allow you to draw for sheep, goat or moose, until you've got 3pts, so you'll be 3pts into it before having a chance:

In each of the first three years that you apply for sheep, goat or moose in Colorado, you will earn one preference point per species. Once you reach that 3-point threshold, you are then eligible to draw a tag, starting on your 4th year of applying.

After your third year, you will no longer accumulate preference points. But you can keep accumulating what Colorado Parks and Wildlife (CPW) calls, “weighted points”. These weighted points give you just a slight statistical advantage. However, it is NOT a preference point. While someone who has 10 weighted points has a slight statistical advantage over someone with 5 weighted points, it’s still a lottery and anyone with at least three preference points could draw!

Once you have reached that 3-preference-point threshold, continuing to accumulate weighted points is optional. It’s a $50 fee per point for Colorado residents and a $100 fee per point for nonresidents.

https://www.caribougear.com/blogs/h...ing-for-sheep-goat-and-moose-tags-in-colorado

 

[wombat13]

Sheep, goat, moose and elk, are one of those "best time to start buying points was 10 years ago, next best times today" type deals. Elk aren't that bad, unless you want a really, really, cool area.

Thanks for the info and the links. Unfortunately, it seems like the best time to do anything was 10 years ago - buy land, clear a food plot, build out the cabin, etc. At least I bought the land 11 years ago.

I'm going to use the info in this thread to try to come up with a plan that gets my son and I out west in 5-7 years. I need to come up with a budget that fits in with carrying cost of my land, finishing the interior of the cabin, two older children who will almost certainly be in college, etc.! Oh yeah, need to leave room in the budget for some fun for Momma.

 

[buck460XVR]

For me, it would come down to the quality of hunting in your state/area. If hunting is good and you have access to good hunting land, then I would concentrate more at home, than spending big bucks on a hunt that might be a challenge for a 12 year old. As a kid, I remember it was not WHAT I was hunting, but that I was hunting. Between grouse, pheasants, squirrels, rabbits and deer(with both gun and bow) and being involved in youth sports, I didn't really care about other hunting, much less have time. It wasn't until I got out of High School, where I realistically considered going somewhere else.....but then there was college. Nowadays with Turkey hunting in the spring and fall now, along with predator hunting, there is a lot to share close to home. When I spent monies on hunting with my two sons, we went to the local Game Farm and hunted pheasants. For less monies, we had the same quality hunt, with great success as when we went west to South Dakota or Kansas. Share what your passion is to hunt and your boy will love it too. But let him go at his own pace. Sometimes just getting out on a rare Saturday/Sunday when the boys did not have games was the best, even if we came home empty handed.

 

[Seamaster31]

With the current point creep it takes more points to draw a good area in Wyoming or Colorado than some posters obviously want to believe. Areas that used to take one point now often take five or more, and the old three point areas now are commonly eight to ten points. The proposed license fee increases and the never-ending quest by many Wyoming residents to cut nonresident license quotas in half for pronghorn, deer, and elk might change the situation, but not for the better.

Colorado is almost a once in a lifetime hunt is the best units for nonresidents, but they do offer other units that are not tough to draw.

In the easily drawn areas there are usually many other hunters, or difficult access to public hunting land. I would buy points for yourself now, and your son when the attains legal age, and hope for the best if I were you.

 

[FL-NC]

There are options to buy vouchers for elk in some places if you don't want to wait years to build points. Naturally this costs more. I was told Missouri has elk hunts available that don't require the logistics of those further out west but I never researched it. Something else that may be fun is to get a eastern turkey or several where yall live then complete the slam with the other species.

 

[Chuck R.]

Thanks for the info and the links. Unfortunately, it seems like the best time to do anything was 10 years ago - buy land, clear a food plot, build out the cabin, etc. At least I bought the land 11 years ago.

I'm going to use the info in this thread to try to come up with a plan that gets my son and I out west in 5-7 years. I need to come up with a budget that fits in with carrying cost of my land, finishing the interior of the cabin, two older children who will almost certainly be in college, etc.! Oh yeah, need to leave room in the budget for some fun for Momma.

5-7 years will probably work, except for the goats-sheep-moose, but you could be lucky!

In "21" three of us drew in for pronghorn in WY with 3pts each, in an area with little public access, but we paid $1500 for access on a private ranch. Last year we drew into MT with 3pts for mule deer (guided, private land), so both hunts were 3 years in the making. I've got 4pts now for a WY elk, the guide we're working with says we can probably draw in this year, but we're waiting till "24" and 5pts to try. Right now I'm buying pts in WY for pronghorn (again) and elk, MT for Elk and mule deer. I'm also thinking of shifting my focus to Canada.

It does get expensive at $2-300 a year just to buy pts in multiple states. I started this effort when I decided not to buy any more land. I was looking at the 40 acres behind my 80, took a look at how long/much it would take to build habitat etc. and decided time/money wise I was better off travelling and working with guides, or paying access fees.

 

[wombat13]

5-7 years will probably work, except for the goats-sheep-moose, but you could be lucky!

In "21" three of us drew in for pronghorn in WY with 3pts each, in an area with little public access, but we paid $1500 for access on a private ranch. Last year we drew into MT with 3pts for mule deer (guided, private land), so both hunts were 3 years in the making. I've got 4pts now for a WY elk, the guide we're working with says we can probably draw in this year, but we're waiting till "24" and 5pts to try. Right now I'm buying pts in WY for pronghorn (again) and elk, MT for Elk and mule deer. I'm also thinking of shifting my focus to Canada.

It does get expensive at $2-300 a year just to buy pts in multiple states. I started this effort when I decided not to buy any more land. I was looking at the 40 acres behind my 80, took a look at how long/much it would take to build habitat etc. and decided time/money wise I was better off travelling and working with guides, or paying access fees.

I understand that. I just bought additional land adjacent to my hunting property. I think the hunting will be good, but the main reason I bought it was to prevent problems. My property and my BIL’s property border the new piece on three sides of it. It’s big enough for someone to bring a number of atvs and/or hunters but small enough that they’ll end up trespassing on our property.

Between the financing and the property taxes, I could pay for a hunt out west every one to two years. The problem with land though is a particular parcel might only come up for sale once in your lifetime. This parcel last sold in the 70s. I could have problem neighbors for the rest of my life.

Can you explain what this means: “I've got 4pts now for a WY elk, the guide we're working with says we can probably draw in this year, but we're waiting till "24" and 5pts to try.”
Does that mean you buy a point each year for X number of years and then you use your points to get advantage in the lottery? If you try with 4 points and don’t get drawn do you lose the 4 points and start over?

Im not at all familiar with this. The only thing like it in NY is the doe permit draw. Here you pay $10 and if you don’t get a doe permit in your preferred unit you get a point. There is no buying points until you decide to enter the lottery and you only lose your points if you get the permit.

 

[courtgreene]

Most places if you enter and don’t get drawn you continue to build points. That keeps you in the game for subsequent years.

I’m also an easterner, the western system is kind of challenging to us, but I’m told it makes sense if you live in it for a while.

 

[illinoisburt]

Most states have youth tag allocations which are either guaranteed or much high odds of drawing (cost less, too). You may not get a tag yourself but will need a non-resident hunting license to accompany him.

 

[Kingcreek]

Agree on Wyoming pronghorn for a hunt on a budget. Unfortunately most everything else is an expensive game or go outfitter unless you have a connection. Archery opens up more options but you’re not there yet.
With young hunters, primary goal should be a positive experience to keep them interested and build passion. Long range planning is really the only way unless you’re going to drop a lot of coin on a booked hunt. You need to kinda let the little man set the course within reasonable limits.

 

[Chuck R.]

Most places if you enter and don’t get drawn you continue to build points. That keeps you in the game for subsequent years.

I’m also an easterner, the western system is kind of challenging to us, but I’m told it makes sense if you live in it for a while.

^ This

But I don't know how much sense it makes, and it seems like hey often change the rules...

We're waiting till 5 pts also to ensure we get the area, and we're still saving the close to $11K for guide, tags etc. Combination Elk/Mule deer guided horseback hunts don't come cheap. Almost on par with Africa plains game.

 

[Seamaster31]

We're waiting till 5 pts also to ensure we get the area

I sure hope that your tag can be had with 5 points. I keep hearing that we might have a large spike in the points needed for a general tag due to all of the chatter surrounding the price increases and threatened quota reductions. It seems that many guys are getting ready to cash in their points ASAP which should really impact the Regular draw. I do hope the price increases will help the guys that are applying for the Special draw. Lately the odds in the Special draw have been close to the Regular draw in some areas.
Good luck!

 

[Chuck R.]

I sure hope that your tag can be had with 5 points. I keep hearing that we might have a large spike in the points needed for a general tag due to all of the chatter surrounding the price increases and threatened quota reductions. It seems that many guys are getting ready to cash in their points ASAP which should really impact the Regular draw. I do hope the price increases will help the guys that are applying for the Special draw. Lately the odds in the Special draw have been close to the Regular draw in some areas.
Good luck!

They told us last year we should start trying to draw at 3pts, but we were already booked for some other hunts and between exercises and available leave I just couldn't swing it. So who knows? IF we don't get in, we'll just keep buying pts and saving, it's about the only thing we can do. Meanwhile we'll keep looking at other states.

My friend did his 2nd retirement this fall (army & civil service) and I'm planning on punching out this coming Dec (army & civil service), so we'll have more time & flexibility. We're also looking more into some of the TX exotic stuff, warmer weather, no points, no draws.. he's been to Africa twice, and honestly I don't have any interest in going there. I might try to do AK again, or Canada.

 

[wankerjake]

Point creep is happening all over, as mentioned, wyoming antelope is getting harder and harder. In Wyoming and Montana you can’t start buying points until 12yr old. In AZ you can start at 10, but draw odds aren’t very good especially for bull elk. Antlerless elk permits can be drawn early December when it’s cold. Feel free to PM me with for more detail on AZ

Honestly paying for GoHunt is a good investment for this sort of planning

Coues whitetail hunts can be drawn in AZ and they are so fun to hunt

 

[Chuck R.]

I sure hope that your tag can be had with 5 points. I keep hearing that we might have a large spike in the points needed for a general tag due to all of the chatter surrounding the price increases and threatened quota reductions. It seems that many guys are getting ready to cash in their points ASAP which should really impact the Regular draw. I do hope the price increases will help the guys that are applying for the Special draw. Lately the odds in the Special draw have been close to the Regular draw in some areas.
Good luck!

Here it comes.. at least for WY:

To get there, HB 200 proposes boosting fees on 40% of nonresident licenses as follows: Elk would go from $576 to $1,258; Deer, $288 to $826; Pronghorn, $288 to $874; Bighorn sheep, $2,318 to $3,000; Mountain goat, $2,160 to $2,750; Moose, $1,980 to $2,750; Bison, $4,400 to $6,000; Grizzly bear, $6,000 to $7,500.

Under the proposal, the remaining 60% of nonresident licenses would then stay flat.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...sedgntp&cvid=790e4d06c4c84679ab4023248857c4b4

So it looks like IF it passes, you'll stand a better chance of drawing IF you throw more money at the problem! Which is probably why it appears that a lot of guides are for it.

 

[wombat13]

Point creep is happening all over, as mentioned, wyoming antelope is getting harder and harder. In Wyoming and Montana you can’t start buying points until 12yr old. In AZ you can start at 10, but draw odds aren’t very good especially for bull elk. Antlerless elk permits can be drawn early December when it’s cold. Feel free to PM me with for more detail on AZ

Honestly paying for GoHunt is a good investment for this sort of planning

Coues whitetail hunts can be drawn in AZ and they are so fun to hunt

Thanks for the offer. I'll contact you about AZ as I think this through.

 

[wombat13]

Here it comes.. at least for WY:



https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...sedgntp&cvid=790e4d06c4c84679ab4023248857c4b4

So it looks like IF it passes, you'll stand a better chance of drawing IF you throw more money at the problem! Which is probably why it appears that a lot of guides are for it.

I certainly don't want to pay more, but...since I'm trying to do this with my son and I have no idea what the future holds for him or where he will be after 18, I have a narrow window to make it happen. I guess I'm willing to pay more for a greater probability that we can make this happen in the year that it works for us.