what I learned today (the hard way)

[conan32120]

last time at the range I found a bunch of 308 brass laying there and tho I don't have a 308 I do have a 243. what I learned was that a Lee universal decapper die does not like crimped primers (it never dawned on me to look). first crimped primer bent the pin. second thing I learned was that necking down a 308 was not so difficult however getting the expander plug back out was. ended up that I had to take a hacksaw to the brass to get the expander plug back. what did I do wrong?

 

[243winxb]

what did I do wrong?

You picked up the brass.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

De-priming crimped in primers is always harder than non-crimped primers but I can say I've never bent or broke a punch pin doing it.
maybe the flash hole was out of center on that first one.
As far as neck sizing, your forcing more brass into the neck than was there originally so it's bound to be harder to neck size.
Try a carbide neck sizing button, they have less resistance then the carbon steel buttons have.

 

[film495]

I don't know, but this sounds like many of my experiences where I swear up and down I'm never doing this again. Then once I figure it all out it isn't so bad and next thing you know.

 

[jmorris]

what I learned was that a Lee universal decapper die does not like crimped primers (it never dawned on me to look). first crimped primer bent the pin.

You can learn one more useful tidbit today, if you don’t tighten the collet on top too tight, the pin will slide up in the collet before you mangle the steel.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

last time at the range I found a bunch of 308 brass laying there and tho I don't have a 308 I do have a 243. what I learned was that a Lee universal decapper die does not like crimped primers (it never dawned on me to look). first crimped primer bent the pin. second thing I learned was that necking down a 308 was not so difficult however getting the expander plug back out was. ended up that I had to take a hacksaw to the brass to get the expander plug back. what did I do wrong?

Bending the pin on a Lee die is not an easy thing to do. First, back off on the collet that holds the pin. It should slip before bending. Second, check to make sure you're not trying to decap Berdan primed brass. Finally, it's always a good idea with found brass to check headstamps, necks, bases and external dimensions to make sure you're putting an effort into something worth keeping. Putting time and materials into machine-gun brass can be a little frustrating.

 

[Mauser fan]

Check for Berdan primed brass aka snake eyes. That is the fastest way to bend or break a de-capping pin.

A Berdan primed case has 2 flash holes and a Boxer primed case has 1 flash hole.

As others have said an easy indicator to tell the difference is to look at the head stamps but that method isn't fool proof. Especially when picking up range brass.

Another issue may be caused by military crimped primers. but not as likely.

 

[edwardware]

. . . what I learned was that a Lee universal decapper die does not like crimped primers. . .

No. Any decapper will handle crimped primers with ease. You can didn't tighten the collet sufficiently.

Remove the rod, rough it up to with 100grit or so, reinstall and torque, tighter than you think.

As for expanding. . . The only thing I can think of is insufficient lube on top of the ball.

 

[conan32120]

ok so i pulled the expander from the sizing die thinking I cant let this brass out think me, well it necked down nicely so i put the expander back in and wanted to run them again, seems now theres a small internal ridge where neck meets shoulder which the expander wont pass. win243xb was right but I had to try after all free brass is free brass.

 

[Howa 9700]

I've never resized any brass from one caliber to another, let alone going from 308 down to 243.

Would there be any advantage to doing that in steps? Say 308 to 260 Rem? No pin or internal neck sizer for the 1st step? Would also think a beasty type press.......say a Rock Chucker.......would help with the process.

Aside from that, I always run each case thru a neck brush, with white graphite (mica) dry lube. Makes extracting the mandrel on Lee dies, or button on other dies a lot easier.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012692264

Except mine is Bonanza, found in my Dad's reloading stash from years ago.

 

[Charlie98]

Second, check to make sure you're not trying to decap Berdan primed brass.

That.

First decap pin I ever broke was on Berdan-primed surplus... I didn't even know what Berdan priming was, but I was a quick learner.

I've never had a problem decapping crimped boxer-primed brass, small- or large primer.

 

[mdi]

I can honestly say I have never had a problem decapping military primer crimped brass. I have a Universal depriming tool from Lee and it too as been flawless for roughly 6 rears. The only problem I've had with range brass is an occasional one that has been in the weather a while and the primer has corroded to the pocket. I got "ringers" and no bent/broken pins. The only time I bent a pin was when there was a chunk of hard resin media stuck in the case. OOPS!

BTW; sizing a case neck down to a smaller caliber requires a lot of good case lube...

 

[Blue68f100]

ok so i pulled the expander from the sizing die thinking I cant let this brass out think me, well it necked down nicely so i put the expander back in and wanted to run them again, seems now theres a small internal ridge where neck meets shoulder which the expander wont pass. win243xb was right but I had to try after all free brass is free brass.

The donut ring. This is caused by heavy (thick wall) brass. You may need to turn the necks to get it even since the shoulder is in a different position. When you moved the shoulder position you ended up with some heavier wall from the shoulder. The fix is to turn the necks or ream it. Another opting is to neck size and stop before you get to the heavier wall section.

 

[Goofball84]

First time I had an expander rod stuck in a case, I used a dremel to cut the brass. Second time, I tried a small tube cutter. The tube cutter works well and doesn't scuff the rod when breaking through the brass case.

 

[FLIGHT762]

Necking down 308 brass to .243 Win. will cause the neck to be way too thick. That's why you had difficulty pulling the expander through the neck, especially with a thick, Military 7.62X51 / 308 case. Take a look at the case to see if it is a Berdan primed case, it might have been.

I do neck up a few calibers, 243 Win to 260 Rem., 308 Win to .358 Win and 30/06 to .338/06. Using a tapered expander and lubing inside the necks. The only necking down I've done successfully was 308 Win. to 260 Rem., but that was with the old 308 Winchester brass that is very thin. It worked without having to neck turn.

 

[thump_rrr]

I don't load 243 so I don't know what the case length is.
I did however convert 308 to 6.5 Creedmoor.
I had to trim the brass to roughly the right length before necking it down.

 

[243winxb]

If i was to try making 243 out of LC 7.62 brass, again, I would anneal it first. May make the difference?

The brass was fresh fired out of many M14s, as i watched.

I had neck reamed & outside neck turned the brass. Had the RCBS press camover when fl sizing. But still the bolt was hard to close after many firings.

Buy small base dies? But why. The head to datum is the same for both. Shoulder angle seems same?

Never figured it out. Annealing??


As far as the expander almost impossible to remove, I have the same problem with 5.56 brass, in some brands. New brass can have a donut at the neck shoulder junction. The fix is neck turning or using a bushing die, that doesnt size the whole neck.

100 new 243 brass & bushing die can get 20 or more loadings on the brass. I am using older Win & Rem brass for years. No annealing, with the bushing die.

 

[GW Staar]

About 45 years ago when I was young and inexperienced, I was given some 7.62mm LC brass from a brother-in-law who was a rifle range leader at Fort ? (I forget) while in the National Guard. Having only one rifle, a .243, I tried the same operation, with the same results. A little research later I was successful.

First step is to size and deprime with a .308 sizer. Then remove the expander rod in a .243 sizer and size again with the .243 sizer.(you'll find it makes necking down much easier too. Then inside-ream the necks (did that on my Forster trimmer with a special reamer they make just for that).

Everything else is the same process for any other .243 case. I loaded them with Speer 105 grain soft points over IMR 4350. Winchester primers were used after removing the crimp with a utility knife. Didn't have a swager or pocket reamer back then.

I never throw anything away....so all these years later, I happen to have three cases left necked down but never loaded; and one finished round I never shot, to remind me it can be done. Took a picture tonight for your entertainment!



Yup....old 1968 Viet Nam era brass.
Now......did I make of habit of this? No sirs! Too dang much work. I saved the rest of that LC brass for when I bought a .308 rifle!

Brass as old as mine was hard even then. It won't swage worth a darn. Often it just shears a sliver of brass and leaves it in the pocket .... to make primers proud enough to slam fire in an AR 10. (did that three years ago...scared the hell out of me.) So get a primer pocket reamer and get rid of the crimp that way.

Thinking since I first posted, I had to correct one major detail...it was a lot of years ago. The nice helpful salesman at Forster, I called, told me over the phone to size first with .308! Which I did and it deprimed fine without getting stuck. THEN I resized it with the .243 sizer without an expander rod, Final stip was to I.S. ream the neck to thin them. Fixed the original content in red.

 

[AJC1]

About 45 years ago when I was young and inexperienced, I was given some 7.62mm LC brass from a brother-in-law who was a rifle range leader at Fort ? (I forget) while in the National Guard. Having only one rifle, a .243, I tried the same operation, with the same results. A little research later I was successful.

First step is to size and deprime with a .308 sizer. Then remove the expander rod in a .243 sizer and size again with the .243 sizer.(you'll find it makes necking down much easier too. Then inside-ream the necks (did that on my Forster trimmer with a special reamer they make just for that).

Everything else is the same process for any other .243 case. I loaded them with Speer 105 grain soft points over IMR 4350. Winchester primers were used after removing the crimp with a utility knife. Didn't have a swager or pocket reamer back then.

I never throw anything away....so all these years later, I happen to have three cases left necked down but never loaded; and one finished round I never shot, to remind me it can be done. Took a picture tonight for your entertainment!

View attachment 1104370

Yup....old 1968 Viet Nam era brass.
Now......did I make of habit of this? No sirs! Too dang much work. I saved the rest of that LC brass for when I bought a .308 rifle!

Brass as old as mine was hard even then. It won't swage worth a darn. Often it just shears a sliver of brass and leaves it in the pocket .... to make primers proud enough to slam fire in an AR 10. (did that three years ago...scared the hell out of me.) So get a primer pocket reamer and get rid of the crimp that way.

Thinking since I first posted, I had to correct one major detail...it was a lot of years ago. The nice helpful salesman at Forster, I called, told me over the phone to size first with .308! Which I did and it deprimed fine without getting stuck. THEN I resized it with the .243 sizer without an expander rod, Final stip was to I.S. ream the neck to thin them. Fixed the original content in red.

Probably could have left the expander out of the 308 and had an easier time. No need to increase its size prior to smashing it down again.

 

[GW Staar]

Probably could have left the expander out of the 308 and had an easier time. No need to increase its size prior to smashing it down again.

I guess I could ruin the .308 sizer by grinding down the expanding plug.....but I still had to deprime and I'd never heard of a Lee or any other brand of deprimer die back in 1972. I was just getting started. But that's an option now days. Sizing to .308 was the easy part with or without the plug. Granted it moved the neck an extra time. But that was just my experience as a kid 50 some years ago. That I still had the cases I photographed yesterday is a testament, of my biggest weakness. Hoarding anything reloading.

 

[AJC1]

I guess I could ruin the .308 sizer by grinding down the expanding plug.....but I still had to deprime and I'd never heard of a Lee or any other brand of deprimer die back in 1972. I was just getting started. But that's an option now days. Sizing to .308 was the easy part with or without the plug. Granted it moved the neck an extra time. But that was just my experience as a kid 50 some years ago. That I still had the cases I photographed yesterday is a testament, of my biggest weakness. Hoarding anything reloading.

No die had to be ruined. You had to run the 243 expander at some point resulting in less total movement. If you were really motivated the correct size transfer punch would have removed the primer at any point along the way. The game of reloading and machining is about troubleshooting and problem solving.

 

[GW Staar]

No die had to be ruined. You had to run the 243 expander at some point resulting in less total movement. If you were really motivated the correct size transfer punch would have removed the primer at any point along the way. The game of reloading and machining is about troubleshooting and problem solving.

Unbelievable.....what part of being a new reloader just starting out 50 years ago, didn't you understand? I had a brand new .243 die set, a brand new .308 die set, a Rock Chucker I Loading kit from Gander Mountain that came with a Forster trimmer, a 501 scale, a Uniflow, and a Speer Manual, and ZERO experience.....and I wasn't and am still not nearly as perfect as you think you are.

I posted the picture for the O.P. , just to show it could be done.....but IMO not really worth the time....ESPECIALLY if one had to center a transfer punch in that dark hole and hammer out a primer one at a time.

 

[AJC1]

Unbelievable.....what part of being a new reloader just starting out 50 years ago, didn't you understand? I had a brand new .243 die set, a brand new .308 die set, a Rock Chucker I Loading kit from Gander Mountain that came with a Forster trimmer, a 505 scale, a Uniflow, and a Speer Manual, and ZERO experience.....and I wasn't and am still not nearly as perfect as you think you are.

I posted the picture for the O.P. , just to show it could be done.....but IMO not really worth the time....MY MISTAKE! Won't happen again.

Coffee time...

 

[conan32120]

thank you GW Staar, forster still makes those reamers and with the price of .243 brass I may just try again (like you I feel the need to hoard up anything reloading). And thank the rest of you as well for your participation in this thread

 

[FLIGHT762]

If you were to buy an inside the neck reamer, You would probably need the "Wildcat" reamer.
https://www.forsterproducts.com/product/wildcat-standard-neck-reamers/

A call to Forster would be recommended to get the proper diameter cutter and to get the proper die set up to do it. When you size the cases down to 243, you likely wouldn't use your expander button in the 243 die.