What is a "custom" pistol?

[Gunsnrovers]

On another forum, we're debating the term "custom" pistol.

For my $0.02, when I hear custom, my belief is that the term implies a "made to order" unique piece. You could have custom pairs built, but in general terms a custom pistol is unique to itself.

A pistol such as a Wilson TSG, an Ed Brown Kobra, Springfield Pro, S&W Performance shop, etc. may be extremely well made and fitted handguns made from premium components, but they are still fabricated from a set list of parts to certain specifications, replicated continually. Each one built will, with minor varience, duplicate the others. These pistols are assembled, not fabricated.

To my mind, the distinction has no bearing on reliability or performance as custom does not always mean better.

Is there a distinction for the above or am I splitting hairs?

Just wondering what the term "custom" means to others.

 

[Wakal]

To my (admittedly twisted) way of thinking, there are a few terms thrown about.

Custom is a piece built exactly to your specifications, just the way you want it. My carry gun is an example; I spec'ed out exactly what I wanted (and got it).

Semi-Custom is a piece that may or may not differ from the standard line of a "custom" shop. My new Open gun is an example; I took the standard framework Dan Bedell offers and specified certain changes to reflect my own taste and shooting style. While it looks like most of his other (great and amazingly inexpensive...for a full-up Open race-ready) $2,500 pistols, there are some changes that he allowed me to make during the building process.

Production is an off-the-shelf piece. This runs the gambit from a Wilson CQB to a Glock 22. Every one looks like every other one. Nothing wrong with them, but nothing special either.

Discuss...







Alex

 

[SRYnidan]

Just to muddy the water more let us add the term customized which is what most people are refering to when they say a custom pistol.

If this is not what is being refered to how custom is custom. When I have a shop take a Ruger security six and have a Colt Python barrel installed in place of the original (which involves shaving the rib and building a front sight from scratch) round butt the frame, do an action job and bead blast refinish. This to me is a custom pistol.

 

[Seraph]

Yes, I do think there should be made a distinction between a custom and a hand-built limited. IMO, a pistol like a Springfield Pro or an Ed Brown Kobra is a high quality hand-built limited. They have all the quality of a true custom pistol, but they are made in limited periodic batches, and are damn near identical, from one example to another.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Is there a distinction for the above or am I splitting hairs?

There's a distinction. Drawing it would ruin a lot of marketing individuals' days, but it's a legitimate, logical distinction.

 

[MoNsTeR]

If it was built for you how you wanted it, whether from a frame or a base gun, it's a custom.

If it came from a factory according to a standard blueprint, whether hand fit or assembly line, it's not.


A Kimber with a new barrel is more of a custom than a Wilson (nothing against Wilson; it's also the case that "custom" and "quality" aren't synonymous).

 

[Jeff OTMG]

You got it right. Custom is CUSTOM, anything else is production even if limited production.

 

[gvass]

Custom = (today) another marketing buzzword, such as tactical, match-grade etc.

 

[ID_shooting]

So if custom is defined as somthing built for or by a user to his or her own specs, what is a franken-gun?

Say I take a Colt Delta slide and barrel, add Wilson small parts and mount that on top of a milspec-Springfield frame with say enough upgrades to make it a "loaded" and some Houge grips, does that become custom or just another pieced together 1911?

 

[logical]

We have this same discussion on the Harley forum about "Custom" motorcycles.

I think "Custom" is anything built to order not available as a catalog item. It could just be assembled from stock parts but has the exact parts you want or it could be custom built parts.

To me "Customized" is the same thing except you started with a stock gun and changed out parts or reworked parts to get what you want.

"Factory Custom" or "Custom Shoppe" is just is just an admission by a company that their regular guns are mediocre and they have decided to make a few good ones.

I don't feel a need for some term above "Custom" to distinguish hand-built or high-dollar guns.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

To my thinking, a Franken-gun or the 1911 I built and posted about in the semi-auto forum earlier this month are custom. Doesn't mean the pistols are worth spit, can shoot well, or be reliable, but they would be unique and built/assembled to request and you won't find another just like it.

Looking at a current popular theme, I would say the original MEU 1911's built from available parts spare and take off parts by the unit armourers were unique "custom" pistols. The Kimber and Springfield contract pistols, while obviously of very high quality, fit, and more then capable of doing the job for the MEU guys, would be production (albeit limited).

 

[Seraph]

GnR, I agree with you completely. And while I agree that a "Franken-pistol" is a custom pistol of a sort, to me, the definition of a Franken-pistol should require that some or all components were salvaged from other pistols, probably worn-out or broken pistols. Afterall, they made the Frankenstein monster from broken people parts. I don't think a pistol made from a brand-new RRA slide and a Caspian frame, with an Ed Brown grip safety and a Smith & Alexander MSH, would be a true Franken-pistol.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

True. Custom, to me, is worthless unless there is some knowledge as to who did the customizing. We've all seen the "customized" work of kitchen table butchers. They may be custom, but they are often pistols none of us would want to touch/shoot.

Kinda goes with all the requests for "value" for pistols with all sorts of big name aftermarket parts. Great. Some guy sunk $xxx into his pistol. Without knowing who fit the parts and the quality of the work, the extras don't add value and can often detract.

In the Rover community, we call them SPOT (stupid previous owner tricks). The little things folks do to customize their trucks that only cause headaches (and cost more money) down the road.

 

[standingbear]

custom could mean many things.I have a custom 44 mag redhawk thats had some custom work on it, nothing externally noticable until you fire it.


Ive also seen custom vaqueros with scroll engraving and competition handguns with custom grips,barrel weights and other things.


custom to me is anything that doesnt normally come with the guns standard features and serves a specific purpose.

 

[BlkHawk73]

Now-a-days it seems that simply changing grips makes a gun "custom" to some people, especially when they're trying to sell it. Everything is "custom" now it seems. In my opinion, if you have a gun, send it off to have specific work done to it that greatly enhances the appearance or mechanics of the gun, it's been customized. Now what does "freatly enchanced" mean. Hard to say exactly but it sure would require more than new grip, new sights or stuff like that. An action job is just that, not a custom trigger pull. Replacing stock sights with novaks, is just that, not custom sights. Kinda a grey area I guess. What's custom to one isn't to another.

 

[Smythe77]

Here is an example of a Custom made 45ACP. Made up by Dlask here in B.C., Cdn to my specs being Caspian frame, STI slide, Brailey bbl & bushings, Brown beavertail, Bo-Mar sights, ambi safety, extenend mag release, Dlask Titanium trigger (long for my hands), hammer & mag well.

All checkering done to perfection especially front & back of grip, his checkered walnut grips, & then tuned to perfection to where it will group 1.75" along with prefered trigger pull of 2.5 lbs.

A lot more to it, but you get the idea. His use of CNC machinery & his perfection is the reason I ordered this gun to my specs. Prior one was one he had built up for a prospective customer that failed to come up with the money so slight changes to it in length of trigger, & trigger pull.

The latter gun cost me close to $3,000.00 in Cdn funds three yrs ago while latter was closer to $4,000.00 a year later. Mind you I am including sales taxes, registration, shipping & such. The first gun,mentioned, took him around 6 months to build though we both agreed that I was not in a rush since I had the other 45.

You see he finds a lot of his guns are bought by people over in Europe mainly for appearance or collectors & often they are never fired. Les Bair is another that finds Europeans like his guns. So that is the hunting grounds for some of the better custom h/gun makers & believe me they pay big money.