What is the "artillery hold"?

[Col. Harrumph]

Browsing this forum for the first time, I was hoping for some advice on how to handle my Stoeger S4000. I understand the mechanics of a spring piston mean there's some considerable kinetics going on before the pellet even starts to move, and posters are saying the artillery hold is the only way to get control of this bucking bronco.

(from Stoeger's web site):


Please explain to an ageing newbie: what's the secret?

 

[PapaG]

Support hand just ahead of trigger guard, elbow against hip (or gut).
Look at the old Scheutzen riflemen.

 

[Bwana John]

Look at a howizer being fired. The barrel is not being held stationery, it is allowed to recoil.
You hold the springer so the recoil pulse (which is backwards of normal small arms recoil as the piston goes forward) is allowed to move the rifle, you do not “hold hard”. The recoil pulse happens before the pellet even starts to move, not after.

Go to minute 5:15


This is one of the reasons I really prefer PCP.

 

[3Crows]

Kind of like holding your mouth right when fishing. But ask any fisherman how they hold their mouth and you will get a differing opinion as to how to hold one's mouth correctly. If you are catching fish, you must be doing it right. I suppose applied to spring guns if you are getting better results than a scatter gun, you must be doing it right and if your shots more resemble a scatter gun, well, then you are doing it wrong. Or, just get a pump or PCP and forego the spring thing and the artillery hold. And your scopes will thank you.

 

[JohnKSa]

Tom Gaylord popularized the term and concept although he doesn't claim to have originated it. His idea was that recoiling springers were more consistent if you didn't try to restrain the recoil. The gun was shouldered and the fore-end rested on the hand but without the hand gripping it. Ideally, when the gun recoiled, the shoulder would present consistent resistance and the fore-end would slide in the hand.

The alternative would be to try to grip the fore-end with very consistent pressure so that the recoil behavior of the gun remained consistent from shot to shot and Gaylord felt that was a lot more difficult.

https://www.pyramydair.com/article/The_artillery_hold_June_2009/63

"Since you can never repeat a hold exactly, you'll throw your shots all over the place if you hold the rifle tightly. If you just let it float on your hand, it will settle down and start grouping to the best of its capability."

There's a video in the link.

One thing you do want to do is to make sure your hand placement on the fore-end is the same from shot to shot.

All of this is to deal with the issue that most of the recoil of a springer happens before the pellet even starts to move because it's the result of the piston and spring moving to compress the air.

 

[jmorris]

posters are saying the artillery hold is the only way to get control of this bucking bronco.

It’s kind of the opposite of “get control”. You are just sitting the rifle on your hand and letting it do what it’s going to do, as you are just supporting its weight not really clamping down on it so it can’t move when you pull the trigger.

 

[wesmonster]

I use a hold similar to Jmorris's pic, just support the weight of the rifle. Like if you were resting the forearm on a rest or bag. It takes some practice but as long as you're not using a death grip you'll get good results.
I know some don't like springers for this reason. But I've bought & refurbished enough vintage air rifles to appreciate the hammer-like reliability of springers.
My best springer is a Hatsan 95 in .25. I thought I'd gotten a lemon til I did some reading and adjusted my grip. It wasn't the tool, it was the carpenter. Recently added a side mount bipod and now I'm really seeing what it's capable of.

 

[cslinger]

It’s complicated jargon to basically say use a very light hold with a spring airgun and let it recoil however the hell it wants. The key is to figure out what that light hold is for each gun and that can be a bit of a dance and once you find it do it the same every time.

Basically springers Recoil like a SOB, forward, backward, vibrating every which way etc. if you try to control that recoil you will over control and throw shots all over the place. The fact that piston dropping is not unlike an Open bolt SMG in feel also means you will probably drive the gun down. The key is to sort of let the gun recoil how it wants and it will sort of sling the shot in the same place each time.

This can be counter intuitive for a powder burner shooter and will require both practice and likely a bit a frustration but once you get it it will actually make you a better PB shooter because your follow through will be on point.

 

[cslinger]

Also like I alluded to above follow through is key. That pellet stays in the barrel for a comparative eternity vs a PB rifle and the whole time you are dealing with that recoil so the second part is getting that follow through right every time.

Couple other suggestions.
-If you bench the rifle don’t bench on a hard rest. Use a soft rest or rolled up towel etc.
-Don’t set yourself up for failure. While that rifle show. Will shoot to 50-70 yards (more actually but in practical terms 50-75 yards your ballpark max range) they are very difficult task masters. Start out learning it at 7-10 yards. Work your way out to 20-30 yards (which is really the springer sweet spot in my opinion) and then maybe start playing at 50+ if you desire.
-Play with the minute details of your hold. Squinting or not, cheek position, mouth open or closed etc. believe or not all these things can matter. Like I said it’s a dance and you need to learn your partner.

 

[jeepnik]

It’s kind of the opposite of “get control”. You are just sitting the rifle on your hand and letting it do what it’s going to do, as you are just supporting its weight not really clamping down on it so it can’t move when you pull the trigger.

View attachment 1132312

Back when the M-16 was new that was the way we were taught to hold it. Apparently, it was possible to slightly deflect the barrel by gripping it hard and pulling down on the fprearm.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

Tried it today. Got actual groups at 10 yards! (Yeah, big groups, but groups!) My scope, however (a Hawke) ran out of vertical adjustment and she's still hitting a bit low. In a PB the fix would be a ramp.

 

[cslinger]

Tried it today. Got actual groups at 10 yards! (Yeah, big groups, but groups!) My scope, however (a Hawke) ran out of vertical adjustment and she's still hitting a bit low. In a PB the fix would be a ramp.

You have barrel droop. You can address this a couple of ways.
-Shim the scope with some thin aluminum/or tape.
-Buy adjustable scope mounts.
-Bend your barrel. (Sounds horrendous I know but it’s a fairly benign thing on a pellet rifle.

You do t want to run your scope maxed out especially on a springer. It puts undue stress on it and will reduce its lifespan.

 

[Remington1911]

Tried it today. Got actual groups at 10 yards! (Yeah, big groups, but groups!) My scope, however (a Hawke) ran out of vertical adjustment and she's still hitting a bit low. In a PB the fix would be a ramp.

You need to hold the rifle the exact same way each shot. And when I say exact I mean EXACT. You are not going to control the recoil from the spring no matter what you can do, a human just can't do that. @JohnKSa gave you all you need to know. Check out some articles online in Hard Air or Pyrmaid's sight, you will find it in there. You will also find some rather old videos on there talking about this exact subject, as well as about everything else around springers. It is dated, but good info, and info that will not line up with what some have said here.

Those are two very good sources, you got some groups, now keep going. A spring gun is the single hardest thing to shoot well, and a higher powered one is even more difficult. If you are still not happy with where you are and really want to master this spring gun thing, look into a low powered spring gun, sub 500fps with "normal lead" pellets. Yours at 800 is going to be a big step, and the reason so many give up on airguns all together.

 

[Septicdeath]