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What Is The Best Training Course

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browningpotato

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I have been seriously considering taking a training course but am having trouble deciding on one. I was pretty set on going to Tactical Response for fighting rifle and high risk civilian contracting, however after learning a bit more about Mr. Jaegers past I am not sure his course would be very well respected.

I really liked the idea of the high risk civillian contractor package, it looked like very practical training that seemingly can not be found anywhere else. Is anyone familiar with this course or any like it. I am fairly well trained from work and do not want to pay a lot to go through basic tactics which I do routinely. I have looked at Gunsite and a few others, but none seem as involved or technical and Tectical Response.

Any thoughts? What are the best/most respected training courses out there, I would prefer to stay around the midwest but will travel wherever if the training is thorough enough.
 
What are you trying to accomplish? What's your goal? If it's just for a piece of paper from "best/most respected", that depends on who is viewing the diploma. There are some I respect and some I don't. A bunch are unknown to me. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. :)

On a slightly different note, most schools want you to take a basic class first in order to ensure that your safe and know their version of the basics before getting into anything exotic. Agency training, almost by definition, is set to the lowest common denominator. I am not aware of any instructors who give agency/academy training much credence.
 
Yes, I understand that you generally have to take a basic course before moving on to more advanced tactics, which is somewhat frustrating because we are already highly trained at work. I really just want to take my training to the next level. While I may never use the training in combat, I feel the knowledge would be invaluable.

This is the course I was previously thinking of taking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ov6CQv4pc

I think practical training like this would be much more valuable than simply shooting paper from a static firing line. Are there any other courses that offer training this in depth?
 
I have to parrot Al, what do you want to apply the training to? Training to be a trigger puller in OEF has a different set of requirements than training to be a physical security specialist is different from civilian defensive training. There are courses focused on each of those areas out there and picking the "best" depends upon which goal is desired.
 
We carry both an AR15 rifle and a 9mm pistol on duty and I would like to become as effective as possible with these weapon systems. Our trainers attend Gunsite and it seems they bring alot of this training back to implement at our range. I am most interested in CQB tactics but a broad range of combat competency would be ideal.
 
Well, you're not giving us a whole lot to work with. The Mods above are correct, your training needs to be relevant to your job. It appears that you're police from your 'carry on duty' comment above. Ok, so where are you? Depending on where you're at can add a lot to this.

SouthNarc's EQC and AMIS are 'must haves' for LE IMO, these will teach you how to respond in close range situations/ambushes.

Other worthwhile instructors are Paul Howe @ CSAT, Larry Vickers @ Vickers Tactical, Kyle Lamb @ Viking Tactical, Ken Hackathorn, Magpul Dynamics, LMS Defense, TigerSwan Training, Todd Louis Green at Pistol-Training.com, etc.

There are plenty of excellent, top tier training/trainers out there without resorting to the flashy crap that some schools push.
 
Kelly, thanks for the suggestions, I looked into Vickers Tactical though all classes in my area are already full. I am not familiar with several of these schools and will def. look into them further.

Sorry for being so vague, I just do not have specific tactics I am looking for, just thorough practical training with the weapon systems specified. Any reviews of the Tactical Response courses? They look like they could be good but I know there is some controversy surrounding Mr. Yeager.
 
I can't speak to James Yeager's live training program because I haven't gone through it, but I have watched his Fighting Pistol video. Again, I can't speak to his live training program. The video was difficult to watch, it seemed like one long rant and was difficult to take notes and follow because the topics were erratic and he went completely off topic often. So, that said he could have excellent hands on instruction but his ability to transfer information verbally in my opinion (and I only speak for me) is poor. I feel like Yeager's information is good but his presentation needs to be greatly improved. If I knew nothing else of him and watched one of his videos, I would not then go pay to take the class. Again, I have not experienced his live training program and can't speak about how good or bad it is, nor would I unless I had actually experienced it.

What I do know is that Yeager puts a LOT of people through his live programs.
 
If you do a search on here you will find several AARs for Tactical Response along with other trainers.
 
I have trained at Tactical Response, as well as other schools. I will stay on the topic of Tcatical Response since that is the school in question. I have taken Fighting and Advanced Fighting Pistol. It was great training and i would recommend them and i will return in the futre. my course aar's are on here, use the search funtction and you should be able to find them. For the HRCC course that you want to take, fighting rifle is a pre req so take FR and then teh HRCC course that you want to take. you might want to also become a member at www.getoffthex.com it is the online disscusion forum for Tactical Response. you will find course reviews, pics, and be in a community with like minded folks, that have trained there and othe rplaces as well. good on you for wanting to get training.
 
There is no one "best" training course. Some might be better than others, but there is usually something you can learn from any course you might take. Just check out whatever course you are interested, look for reviews from people who took the course and go for it.
 
Thanks for all the replies, I am stil not sure which course I will ultimately take but I have several more options now. Since Fighting Rifle is a prereq for HRCC anyway maybe I will take that and see how it goes and go from there.

Let me ask this, for someone in my position who has been adequately trained in both rifle and pistol (clearing malfunctions, shooting on the move, tac reloads etc etc) are the intro courses going to be of much value or just refreshers?
 
The crux is always what does "adequately trained" mean? Most people will take something away from a class that covers things they think they should already know.
 
You might list specific training you've received and people might be able to point you to a class that would fit your skills.

I regularly take basic classes and come away with something new or polish something a little rough.
 
Yes, even the "basic class" has things to offer. Some folks have their own unique approach to solving the problem, and even if you don't adopt it you still learn from the exposure. You might discover that you are now better able to articulate why you prefer A to B. It doesn't make A better than B; it's just what you prefer for whatever reasons you have to prefer it.


Major league baseball and football players still attend training camp. Some top level players spend huge amounts of personal funds to simply refine the basics.


During the days that men fought with swords, students were constantly on the search for the "unstoppable blow". That one technique that was so perfect as to be 100% deadly, unable to parry, block or dodge away from in time. Fencers thought they had one, until they fought against someone who never learned how to fence. The swordfighters of the Far East thought they had one, each in his own school, until they encontered someone who didn't fight like a Far Easterner.


The answer is there is no "unstoppable blow". And there is no "best school".

In reality, "advanced" training is nothing more than mastering the basics. Despite the marketing of some, there are no "super-secret techniques".


You're focused on tools. Forget the tool.


What's you mission? What kind of work do you do? What's your environment? What's your goal? A Seal Team member wouldn't make a good Peace Officer if he treated every contact as if it were a hostile enemy to be destroyed. And a top notch Peace Officer wouldn't do well dropped onto a hot beach with the 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marines.


Forget the tools - meaning those guns. What's your mission? Find a school that's tailored to your mission, that has a good reputation and doesn't engage in puffery about super-secret techniques and unstoppable blows. Once you've found that, you've found your "best' school.
 
Let me ask this, for someone in my position who has been adequately trained in both rifle and pistol (clearing malfunctions, shooting on the move, tac reloads etc etc) are the intro courses going to be of much value or just refreshers
Click to expand...

I would say intro classes have great value, irrespective of one's skill level - but I think this depends on mindset and goals. I usually do a couple classes each year. I always try to make one of them an 'intro class' - ideally with someone who I've not trained with before. I've made some of my best progress as a shooter in some of those classes.

I have, however, seen folks who show up 'too cool for school', and don't seem to have any interest in taking anythig away from the intro classes. I suspect they'd answer differently from me.

In any event, don't get hung up on the "best" class - as others have said, there's no such thing. Moreover, training is a process, not an event, and your experience at any one class is just a little slice of the pie. :)
 
i can tell you that i had lots of handgun training before the two courses at Tactical response, but i still came away with alot. There is more to thier courses, and other school's courses than just the range time. in tactical resonse courses they hit on mindset, the legal aspects, medical and tactics as well. there is sometime spent in the classroom. for me even though i had been trained before at other places there was still alot of info that i came out of the class with especially Fighting pistol, there i learned alot in the classroom. still in advanced fighting pistol i learned some stuff in the classroom, but way more of the range.

as well i look at it like this, even if it is a basic course, and you learn no new material which has never been teh case for me at any school, you are gonna be able to be refined and watched closely by a professional.

i agree there are no advanced skills, when you can deliever the basics with prefection on demand you will be good to go. that also plays hand in hand with going to a school. they say practice makes perfect, no perfect practice makes perfect. you may very well go to a school and see that there is a better, smoother, faster, more consistant, and or more efficient way of doing something.
 
Bullfrogken summed it up pretty good. I don't normally chime in on discussions like this because Professional Marksmen Inc. is doing Practical Pistol and Practical Carbine courses this year, but the reason why you are taking a firearms course should be the focus. We ask all of our students why they are here and what they want to get out of the course before the start of each to put that in their thoughts.

I would agree that there is no one good school or form of training. I've taken courses in and out of the military, where I've learned from both the instructor and the other students in the course with me. I would also agree that the fundamentals are the most important because this is what we will revert to under duress. The path of least resistance, both physically and mentally, is where we will naturally go when having to react.

This is also a question we ask when someone is looking at a Precision Rifle Build. What do you want accomplish with your rifle and then we make recommendations from there.

If you understand where you want to be, then you can formulate how to get there. This is true with all things in life.
 
Moreover, training is a process, not an event,
Click to expand...

This is the absolute truth.


i agree there are no advanced skills, when you can deliver the basics with perfection on demand you will be good to go
Click to expand...

Another truth.

As Preacherman once said, amateurs practice till they get it right, professionals practice till they can't get it wrong. :)

Quick personal example - went to a shooting school (Shootrite) for a handgun/carbine course. Been shooting handguns for 35 years. Shot IPSC and IDPA. Instructed both civilian and military shooters, NRA Instructor certified.

:eek:

Ten minutes into the live fire and one persistent problem I've had was diagnosed, cured and I was shown a technique to ensure that problem never came back. :eek: Thirty five years of experience and I was shown something I never knew. I could have packed my bags and gone home right then and thought the money was well spent. :cool:

:D
 
BrowningPotato,

PM me your address and I'll send you a copy of "The Training Log Book"... it has essays from other 30 leading instructors (including several mentioned already in this thread) in response to the question "What advice do you have for someone considering defensive training?"... it might help you learn a little about some of the instructors and focus your interest.

-RJP
 
I will Happily and gladly endorse Rob and his many books and dvd's. I have the training log book, it is something that the people of our mindset have wanted and wished for, for a long time and some of just not knowing it. I can't wait for the 2nd to come out. I have also trained with Rob(CFS). I didn't want to list off other schools before and get way off track of the thread, however he is here and worthy of endorsemnt for sure. There are many things that i have taken from courses over the years, and i have said it before and i will coninue because it is true, i saw great results in only 2 short days during the CFS course, more improvement in my balance of speed and accuracy, than i have in all the previous courses. Look into ICE Training, CFS, and Rob you will not be disapointed. IMHO there is no one that i have ever met that can articulate info to the student like Rob can. I plan to take many more courses with him in the future, and i would love to take the CFS Instructor develpoment course as well.
 
Good recommendations so far, so I'll take a bit of a different tact.

One thing that comes to mind is designing and practicing your HD plan...free of charge :). You'll find many good tips by searching this forum.

Are you single / significant other / kids? How do you envision a scenario playing out if someone was to enter your home? If you fire, what weapon are you firing and where could the bullets end up?

Do you have a designated safe room? How about a code word? Who's responsible for what (communications to first responders, locking doors, turning off lights, using weapons, etc).

Finally (this is just a pet peeve of mine:)), please learn the difference between concealment and cover and how to use them: what's cover for one weapon may simply be concealment for another. Keep that in mind as you design your HD plan.

Sorry to veer from the topic, though I hope this helps a bit.

Regards,
DFW1911
 
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