What is "The Israeli draw"?

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Ric

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I read it referenced in a magazine as an alternative to cocked and locked carry, a method of drawing and operating the slide quickly.
Does anyone know about this technique? Is it viable or has it been deemed obsolete?
 
Interesting…

Along time ago when the Georgia State Patrol first adopted the Glock that was how the weapon was carried and a similar technique was used to unholster and chamber a round, because of the (later well founded) worries of accidental discharges due to the trigger doo-flotchie Glock passes off as a safety.
 
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I am not a gun guru.

I do not write for a gun magazine. I don't not run a high speed low drag training facility. I'm not even an NRA instructor. But here's my two cents.

There are a number of theories being kicked around for the "Israeli draw." Poor quality weapons with a high risk of an AD back when the technique was developed. The IDF being forced to us a hodge podge of weapons so they adopted this technique so they could train people regardless of the pistol they were issued. Draw, rack slide, fire. No worries about safety, decocker, hammer back, hammer down, etc. I think another was to give you a moment to assess the situation as you draw and chamber.

Anyway, this has come up before in discussion and I BELIEVE the prevailing opinion was that with modern production, good quality firearms you are much better off to carry with a round in the chamber. It certainly is my personal opinion. Here is why...(The following represents my personal, semi-informed opinion, not any attempt to recall other people's opinions in the previous thread). With a quality firearm you shouldn't have to worry about a true accidental discharge. i.e., one where you drop it or bump it and the gun goes off. This leaves plenty of room for NEGLIGENT discharges, one due to user error. To paraphrases a popular computer science proverb/joke, "There is a race between the universe and gun companies. The gun companies are trying to create safer guns and the universe is trying to create bigger idiots. Right now the universe is ahead." I'm not trying to insult anyone, but if you do your part and KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER, the gun will do it's part. I've carried a Glock for a year now and shot it for over three and never had a negligent discharge. If you aren't willing to observe good trigger discipline, get something with a 12 pound trigger pull and a real manual safety. Even I won't try and argue that Glock's system replaces a real manual safety that stops the gun from firing when you pull the trigger.

That said, if you carry a good gun in a good holster (one that covers the trigger), regardless of your choice, you shouldn't be concerned about carrying with a round chambered. Modern guns are designed to avoid accidental discharges. We have had enough lawsuits to be sure of that. Furthermore, it seems reasonable that if you are being attacked there is a good chance that it will occur suddenly enough or your other arm may somehow be unavailable (grabbed, wounded, trapped, etc) that you won't have the time or the ability to use two hands to chamber that round. Which leaves you with an expensive shiny club. Which is no good at all.

Of course, if you do have a reason to carry with an empty chamber or you just want to, that decision is yours. But I will be carrying my Glock Condition 1 and feeling very safe doing it.
 
One this post is started, it goes on, and on , and on..


Short answer, the "Israeli" draw is an obsolete tactic, that was actually a British Army drill.

It trades reliability on first shot for higher degree of safety among the great unwashed.

Just let it go......
 
I just have one question about this technique. What is the user to do if he is shot in the weak arm or hand and is unable to rack the slide!?!??!:banghead:
 
Then, I think you are supposed to push the slide against your leg to cock the pistol, but it ain't worth it. A good gun and good holster goes almost the whole way in preventing carrying AD's. The rest comes to the user.
 
From HKMP5's action photo I would have to say it is a good technique for giving the other guy an advantage. My gut feeling is that the one who gets off the first shot in an exchange is likely the winner as the second guy is too busy ducking and running. My preference would be to make the first shot from the hip, just out of the holster and then extend and aim for the second, assuming that was necessary.
The "cult of Israeli tactics" wears thin with me. Maybe it comes from meeting lots of chilonim and hearing their shtuyot.
 
I just have one question about this technique. What is the user to do if he is shot in the weak arm or hand and is unable to rack the slide!?!??!

Pff. Real men would obviously just go "Rarrrr!" like a barbarian and then clench the slide with their teeth to rack it.
 
I am an instructor, train others in high speed/low drag handgun techniques [ just got back from NYC this last weekend training cops on LI in Quick Kill with a pistol and a technique for hip shooting ].

I would not normally use this carry mode but have in the past when having to work in uniform where I may be disarmed by a BG getting the drop on me and taking my weapon [ gun grab ]. If they were then to attempted to shoot me with my own piece, surprises await them.

There is a time and place for everything. When I carried in that mode, my secondary was an IWB 5 shot j frame in appendix carry position. I did not like having to work in a uniform on the armed details but had no choice if I wanted the monies. The "duty" rig was bait, the j frame was counted on in a potential disarm to get my arse back to ahead of their OODA cycle and retake control of the situation.

Never say never. The technique is valid as are others, each has their weaknesses, this ones weaknesses have been touched on previously here by others.

Brownie
 
Lots of people who have used it are still roaming the streets of Israel today however.

In the scenario I listed above, it was a good way to stay alive [ as that was not going to be the one I would be using to defend with, that was the bait for a potential disarm of my inview duty rigged firearm.

Brownie
 
I was forced to carry with an empty chamber for several years as a MP. During that time, I practiced this method regularly. After becoming fairly adept at it, there's still no way I'll carry with an empty chamber by choice.

Having said that, I have to agree with Phantom in that I'd never carry without a good holster which covers the trigger.
 
tt:

Were you not equipped with the Korean DMZ holster for the .45??

IIRC at one time they had developped a special holster for Korean DMZ troops so that they could carry on an empty chamber, and load by slapping the .45 DOWN, and then drawing......

Or so several stories I'm familiar with would have it.

Shadowfane
 
I recall reading about this technique years ago, and one thing that sticks in my head is that it's designed for those carrying a pistol without a holster. The gun is just tucked into the waistband behind the strong-side hip. The caveat about it not being an issue with a good holster doesn't apply, there's no holster, good, bad, or indifferent.
 
Next time I am at the range I should see how much extra time this adds to a draw. With a shot timer I can usually draw and get my first shot off in about 1.6 seconds. My goal is to get down to about 1.2 seconds. I will have to check and see how much time doing this Israil draw adds. I will be at the range on Wed I will post my results.
 
The Israeli Draw requires the shooter to say "Oy Vey!" loudly.

:D


Seriously though, it was asked how to rack a slide one handed. Hooking the rear sight on the belt and pushing down works. If all nothing else, you can press it into the thigh and do the same thing.
It is nto jsut for draws. Think "jam-clearing" when the off hand is busy or injured.
 
I have a hard time with anything that reduces the readiness of the pistol, including both this and Condition 2 carry of SA autoloaders. With all due respect, I cannot see the rationale for using it in the context of a grab. If the risk is that high I need to ungun myself, like in a correctional setting, or leave.
 
I really don't mean to be repetitive, but here's my take on this more than reasonable alternative to "locked and loaded". Whether the history of the draw was related to the weapons of the time is immaterial, as the draw continues to be used to this day by millions. In fact, police departments and SWAT are revisiting the method here in the US.

The primary objection by the L&L crew is that it requires two hands. I see this as a straw man, since for me, and most minimally trained common CCW carriers, if a BG is close enough to grab your arm, this is a mighty bad time to draw and have to fight for retention.



A Quick and Dirty Summary

Chamber or unchambered is a choice. The professional will often (but not always) prefer the former. The inexperienced CCW user will often (but not always) prefer the latter.

Choosing requires consideration of risk/reward. In any gunowner's life the likelihood of being hurt or killed, or of killing a loved one by accidental or negligent discharge is far, far, FAR higher than than by being unable to draw or fire in a hand-to-hand situation. Keep in mind the professional is FAR more likely to engage in close combat: he/she seeks out BG's, stops them, touches them. LE seeks out trouble, and often finds what he's looking for.

Not true for the common CCF carrier, who just wants "pretty good protection". He/she is NOT going to approach trouble, in fact will work very hard to have awareness and get away, call 911. In almost all cases, he/she will have time to retreat, draw and brandish if they must. And will find the Israeli method effective 99% of the time.

OTOH, AD/ND - which does happen to professionals too - is a VERY big deal for the new, casual CCW carrier. The chance of accidentally being shot or shooting an innocent with your gun is so much higher that it's not just not in the same ballpark, it's not even in the same universe. The risk is relatively huge in comparison and that is of great and legitimate concern to the common carrier.

The Israeli method - with its unchambered gun - is a VERY safe alternative to locked and loaded insofar as AD's/ND's.

Here's what I'd say to the common carrier:

In all truth, you will probably never even have to draw your gun on a human being. Most of the time you'll be able to avoid trouble and walk or run away. But if even in that very rare case you do feel forced to draw your gun, it is highly unlikely you will have to fire it. And even if you do have to shoot your gun in true self defense, it is highly likely you'll have the time to do, repeatedly.

Now I must be honest, there is a very, very small chance you may be surprised and end up in actual or immediate hand-to-hand combat where you can't draw or fire your gun. You are not really prepared for this. If you draw your gun there's a big chance it will be taken away from you, and the first thing the BG is gonna do is to pull the trigger. This might be the one time you don't want to expose your gun. Better to escape somehow, then draw it.

The bottom line is this my friend. By using the Israeli method you will be protected in all but the rarest circumstance, a circumstance you are little prepared to handle anyway, and in a situation where any weapon you use may well be used against you. At the same time you will greatly reduce the very real, incredibly more likely tragedy of an accidental discharge that will hurt or kill you, or a loved one.

And another thing for those who carry guns with safeties: if you ever do have to draw and fire, you will suffer a level of stress and panic that you can't imagine. You may feel faint, go blank, your hands will shake and you will lose fine motor skills - the kind that activating a safety requires. You will be confused. Is it on, is it off? Which gun am I carrying, the one where it's up, or the one where it's down? Is the safety already off? Did I forget to actually load the chamber? This is a time where you don't want to be concerned with safeties or whether the chamber really is loaded.

The Israeli draw is a good alternative that you should consider.

It uses gross motor skills that are not likely to fail under stress. You will not have to fumble with safeties. You will simply draw, load and fire, just as fast. Best of all, this is a simple skill that has been taught to millions of ordinary citizens - men and women - and that is known to be fast, safe and reliable under stress.

Most new carriers can learn to draw, rack and fire 3 to the head (at close range) in 1.5 seconds or less, fast enough.

A professional is different. What you may never face, he faces everyday. And he is trained to take the risks. He may well have to draw and fire in a close combat situation. He knows how to retain his gun. He has a backup gun. He has Mace. He has a fighting knife. He has a comealong. And often even a bulletproof vest.

He is paid and trained to take risks that you will do your best to avoid. He goes forward when you should go back. As it should be. He may choose to carry locked and loaded - take the risks of an AD/ND - because is he paid and prepared to do so. You are not and probably will never, ever be.

My friend, this is not a pretty picture. With your inexperience you may choose to carry "locked and loaded" cause that's all you've heard from the forum gunslingers. You may choose to risk fumbling under stress, plus the GREATLY increased chance of an accidental discharge. If you do draw your gun in close combat and even manage to make it off safe, you face the very real risk of being disarmed and being shot with your own gun.

Or you can choose the Israeli method, which greatly improves your chances of survival overall from all causes, accidental or intentional. Do know that you're not alone - although the method was designed for easy and reliable use by millions of ordinary citizens, more and more professionals carry this way too.

If you hear that "locked and loaded" is the ONLY way, you have been badly misinformed. Don't be intimidated into a practice that for the inexperienced CCW carrier is intimidating in itself. Some of you - rightfully - are bothered by the increased accidental risks of "locked and loaded" to the extent that you don't carry, and choose to leave your gun at the bedside for HD.

Don't let this intimidation stop you from carrying!

The Israeli method will allow you to carry in relative safety from accidents, but still retain the ability to engage your gun very quickly, reliably and effectively in all the sensible conditions in which you choose to use it. It is forgiving, reliable and safe even when you may be scared. A great relief! If you choose this method you will be in good company.
 
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