What is the most dead solid reliable pistol (autoloader) design ever?

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Stepping out on the limb.

All, Ya'll got your opinions, I respect that.
All I have is personal experience.
In 1990 bought a plain jane .44 mag Desert Eagle, maintenance and well over 5000 rounds, it still works well and would bet my life on it.
Ruger P-90 .45 uncountable rounds same bet.
Colt 5" commander same...........
Just purchased a Para Ord. Limited, Single stack .45 with the super extracter.
Fired 1000 rounds in 3 sessions. No jams. No complaints. Just plain out of the box nice. THE FINISH SUCKS! I think they left the part that sticks it to the weapon at the factory. Other than that, I love it.
Never owned a plastic fire arm, so no opinion on them.
 
i have never owned a sig (only because im left handed) or a springfield xd (just never interested) but i have just about every other brand i can think of (except hi-points, lorcins or other obvious pieces of ****) and everytime i buy a defensive pistol the first thing i do is try and put 500 rounds through it in one trip to the range without cleaning, if it jams even one time after the first 3 mags i get rid of it with no hesitation the only ones i have ever had to sell were all 3 of my 1911's from various manufacturers and a kahr pm9 (which jammed every way imaginable at-least 3 times per mag for the 300 or so rounds i was stubborn enough to put through it)

i had a .40s&w usp that jammed one time after a few hundred rounds that i let slide (for a while, never owned a 40 since) but every other defensive pistol that i own or have owned has been 100% from its first to its last round (all 9mm's except a g21)

so basically i believe (just from my experience) that most pistols other than 1911's and kahr's are very reliable right out of the box (especially 9's) i still think 1911 are cool though and are fun to shoot (when they work) and clean while watching old war movies but i am not into spending money on already pricey weapons to make them run

my g17 (the only used firearm i've ever owned)and my bhp's probably have tens of thousands of rounds through each of them without a single problem of any kind

nonetheless i would never use a semi-auto weapon of any kind(rifle, shotgun, ect...) for self defense but if i had to it would be either a g17 or a 9mm bhp (if it had to be a pistol) because of how many rounds i have seen them devour without a hiccup
 
not exactly, the glocks were around when the beretta's were tested back in the 80's. the canidates were, glock, ruger, sig, and beretta. the older model glocks had problems with the frames cracking when they were jumped in. the sigs had a horrible finish that would wear off to quickly, the bertta's were unliked by the service members testing the handguns, and the ruger was the most liked by far, for durabilty, and reliability aspects, but because of political issues at the time in the 80's the beretta was chosen.
Click to expand...

Ya know, I've heard that about a billion times with nobody ever getting any more specific than that. Does anyone care to enlighten me as to what exactly were these political issues and what is the evidence upon which this claim is based?
 
Rumor has it that Beretta was given information on the deal Sig put together that included spare parts and Beretta came in on the final quote $10 or 15 less per package. This was supposed to be in exchange for contracts the US was working for air bases in Italy. Who knows what the truth really is.
 
I read about the testing of the H&K USP. Here is what it said as best as I remember. They heat it up to around 155 degrees, freeze it to 40 below, lodge a bullet in the barrel and shoot it. Not only does it not blow it up it still holds a 2 1/2 in group at 25yds. They shoot 10,000 +p rounds without a problem. It also has a double recoil spring for less recoil. I have owned 3 40cal, and 2 45's never had a problem with any. I wish they would fit my hand, but my hands are too small.
 
They heat it up to around 155 degrees, freeze it to 40 below, lodge a bullet in the barrel and shoot it.
Click to expand...

So if we ever get involved in a gunfight somewhere where the temperature goes from 155 degrees to minus 40, and the enemy shoves bullets up the barrels of our guns, we know which pistol to choose.
 
Flopsy:

You will NEVER get the full story on why the Beretta was chosen over the Sig..

However, I can give you some insight, just from personal observation and bits and pieces of conversation picked up another person from the overheard conversations of two range specialists at the time from some of the participants involved in the decision.

What was referred to as the "final trials" were held on the SEAL range at Moulintara' Air Force Base in Ordano, Italy. The two finalists were indeed the Sig and the Beretta.. (the Walther and Galesi offerings were dropped from the competetion prior to this final stage, due to, as best I understand it a decocker problem in the Walther, and a metal fatigue residue problem in the Galesi.. The Galesi was actually the front runner at the time the residue problem was detected, and had been the most accurate and reliable of the 4 being tested. The Italians were really "pushing" the Galesi as it is a quality benchmark pistol from which all Italian pistols are measured. Even the Italians had to give it up when the mfrp was discovered in the Galesi.

Even tho there was to be zero interference in the trials by either the Italians or Swiss the final trials and decisions were in Italy, and the politics of the time was that the Italian Govt was under pressure by the communist block of the Idem (same as Senate here) to have the American Azore M Missles removed from Genoa and Cassitaila.

Since the decline of the Soviet Union the Azore L missles aimed at the USSR were upgraded to the M version (M-more), and recalibrated for gps use and pointed at the capital city in a country which I cannot name, but is near Iraq, Israel hates them, and it was known to have been the original location of the origination of the breed known as the Persian cat.

Rather than lose the strategic use of the Azore M missles arms were twisted, and even tho the Sig was up until the time of final choice being made the clear winner, the Beretta was chosen. The choice confounded the special military technicians who had been running the tests under strict quality control. My "sources" NCOIC told her point blank he overheard the Tech A1 tester and his Tech2 talking and the Tech 2 asked the Tech1, "man, somebody must have paid somebody off, that Beretta is a pos compared to the Sig."

After the announcement of the Beretta contract the uproar from the communists Idem quieted down, the missles were left intact, and the Sig folks returned to Oslow very dejected.. In fact when the Sig team departed the airport in their Saab 607/B the team leader was yelling foul, foul!. Turns out he was referred to the Bristan Condor being ingested by the #2 port engine. ("fowl, fowl")

Hope this clears this issue up once and for all. I wasn't suppose to tell any of this, but I wasn't in the military, my girlfriend was. They told her, she told me (pillow talk doncha' know) and now I share it with you.

*Use the information as you will, I'll just have to deny it so please don't use me as a source..:scrutiny:

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

* You just gotta know I'm fos.. ;)
 
Gee Vern, bobhaverford asked what is the most solid reliable autoloader. I was under the impression he was asking fellow readers their knowledge, or experience's on some good autoloader's. That is why I posted how H&K tested their USP's however trivial it maybe. Sorry you found it amusing and not helpful. Maybe you can share with us your vast knowledge on what a good autoloader is.
 
Sigs,Glocks,and H&K's

Are the three winners.
These you can take from NIB and start combat shooting,and tust your very own life with.
1911 are finakey...too much bells & whistels to fumble with during anxious moments,this will get you killed very,very fast.

All other guns require at least 200 to 500 round break-in periods.
NOT the three top-above mentioned .
 
This is one seriously retarded thread.

It seems the Glock is the best. . . because. . .oh yeah, it's a range queen lab rat and a bunch of cops carry them.

The H&Ks get the same rep at a higher price tag.

Neither have ever been fielded in any numbers by an armed force that matters or actually fights.

Cop guns.:rolleyes: The S&W M-10 and M-36 were pretty dang near perfectly reliable too.

Carried a lot and shot a little. That is life on the streets for cop guns.

The Glock and H&K reputations were built testing under controlled laboratory style conditions, often in tests conducted at the whimsy of agency hacks biased enough to get the desired bureaucratic outcome.

What's up with the Indiana State Police's Glocks? I personally saw a H&K USP puke up part of its firing pin dryfiring. What is up with that?

I only respect semi-automatic sidearms that "have been there and done that" as far as real world reliability is concerned, not a bunch of trigger time at a range somewhere. It is a pretty short list of pistols if in good working mil-spec trim:

1911A1 (Has to be made to actual mil-spec standards and tolerances. The warhorse is still in service at the HS/LD tip of the American spear. They sucked so badly that Congress had to threaten to cut off Army funds for the purchase of .45ACP to give any new service pistols a chance to compete for the NATO compliant sidearm).
BHP, (as long as made in Belgium, Canada, or other western country without aid of slave labor and equipped with original thirteen rounders).
Walther P-38 (made earlier in the war rather than later).
Makarov (As long as it was made in Russia).
Beretta 92FS (As long as it has factory mags. It sucks so bad the Army has reordered them more times than I can keep track of).
SIG P226 (Good enough for the SEALS as its actual sidearm. . . .the crew served H&K need not apply.)

I am probably missing someone's combat sidearm, but it ain't a modern German or Austrian design. That might change, but cop guns mostly fired in the relatively benign confines of the range demonstrate nothing special to me.
 
I like the Beretta, but if I was going to place my life on the line with a single shot, I think I would want either a Glock or a Sig in my hand; and if I was using hardball ammo I think I would want BIG hardball ammo, like .45 ACP.

So. Having said all of this. I have decided that I WILL put my money where my mouth is and depend on either Glock or Sig, betting MY LIFE that either will perform when needed.

The question then arose, 9mm or .45ACP? After much deliberation I decided that it really doesn't matter with today's advanced ammunition configurations that are available to non-military users. So I have purchased in both calibres.

My question: What is the best gun for CONCEALED carry? I have gone with the subcompact Glocks in 9mm and .45 ACP; and with the Sig P226 9mm. I also have the Ruger P345 which has yet to fail me and on which I am getting close to being ready to bet my life. I have run a ton of rounds through the Glocks and the Sig and have never had a single misfire or problem. Ever. In fact, I have a friend with an older Sig who has been using it for some years now and carries it daily. Never a problem with it either.

The question is... what will you BET YOUR LIFE on?

Regretably, I caution readers to take comments with a grain of salt as we have a fair amount of teenage inexperienced testosterone flailing about on here repeating what they have heard elsewhere. Wish it were not so, but it is.... nothing wrong with it, but just keep it in mind when you make a decision that you are going to bet YOUR life on.
 
Cz 75 P01

Over 2000 rounds between mean failures. Torture tested, NATO serialized, and dead bang accurate.
 
yeah

mcgunner I hear ya put the rounds in the mag chamber pull the trigger, and if you want true 100% you gotta go revolver.
but maintenance is factored so I would go xd, glock, and Ruger.
however I've never fired their "service" pistols, but the .22s are reliable.
also I must argue about quality in rim-fire ammo the most failures I've seen is the super 22 "223" a center-fire round.
although I have never seen a .44mag or special or .45 acp dud, hundreds of rounds.
in my experience if you want to see something fail just keep watching, 10 to 100 times the usage you will probably see a few more failures.
 
THE best?

Any proven trustworthy one you have WITH YOU when trouble begins.
One YOU have confidence in that fits your hands and works for you
One you have practiced extensively with and have mastered fully.
Many great designs and models to choose from today.;)
Like ice cream no two tastes are the same find what you like and pick a proven design from those you feel confident with then try it out often and hard.
Any company can build a lemon but a poor design or cheap materials simply are not acceptable.
Practice as much as possible.
Look at the track record of each choice where there is smoke there is fire.
Have had Glocks lose the front sights and bust off oem plastic rears, rounds stuck in chambers either bad brass (split & stuck) or bad primers, broken plastic guide rods, empty brass hitting repeatedly my forehead, limp wristing with some female shooters.
Had Sigs jam solid with oil frozen between frame rails and slide -30 degrees, hard primers required second or third strike, Had a nickel 220 did not cycle or go into battery 10% of time either oiled or dry, had finish wear off a 228.
1911A1 Springfield have lost a front sight and broken firing pins, stovepipes, failure to fully cycle, failure to go into battery, bad recoil spring,
Beretta 92 broken trigger return spring, aftermarket mags weak magazine springs.
Smith & Wesson third generation weak magazine springs, empty magazines hanging up, broken trigger return spring, failure to lock back on last rounds.
1911A1 Colts broken firing pins, weak extractor springs, broken extractor,
front sight flew off once, WW II one cracked a slide, broken main springs, broken barrel bushings both solid (split) or four fingered (broke tip off one).
H & K so far so good all I have borrowed or tried out ran 100%.
P-35 early ones require feed ramp being polished and reshaped for some hollow points to cycle reliably, older ones have needed springs replaced.
Walther trigger return spring broken P5, extractor flew off P5 and P1.
Don't get me started on Taurus or some other brands or MIM parts! :fire:
I guess H & K P-7 USP full size & USP Compacts along with newer P-35s have been 100% with me.:D
These are some of my experiences YMMV:)
 
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