varoadking
Member
To borrow your phrase...I beg to differ.
I would agree with you here...
What is the most dead solid reliable pistol (autoloader) design ever?
- Thread starter bobhaverford
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To borrow your phrase...I beg to differ.
I would agree with you here...
Desertscout
Member
Out of the untolled hundreds of thousands of rounds that I have seen shot through pretty much every model of Glock in existence, I have only seen this happen about 5-6 times. I would have to say that either you are not telling the truth, you were shooting faulty ammo or the malfs were shooter induced. I doubt very seriously that it was any fault of the gun.
BTW, stovepipes and FTE's are the same thing...
varoadking, while Glocks may not be the MOST accurate handgun on the planet, there are very few stock guns that beat them. Below are a few pics from my range...
6 shots fired at 100 yards from a makeshift bench. 5 of the shots are in 5.094" with the 6th shot opening the group up to 9.875".
The gun was my everyday G23 with all of the modifications that we offer shooting 165 PMC FMJ's. Can I do it every day on demand? probably not but the gun can.
This is 5 shots fired from a standing position at 7 yds. with my G17. If I hadn't pulled my 3rd shot out to 11:00, it would have been about a one-bullet-diameter hole. The bottom group is also 5 shots but it is a little sloppy.
Most any of my Glocks will shoot around 2" at 25 yards which is far from what I would call "inaccurate". It all depends on the ammo that I use, the position used, distance and, of course, how well I'm shooting on a particular day.
IndianaBoy
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My CZ 75B has NEVER jammed.
It has been shot and shot until filthy, and then shot a lot more.
Numbingly cold days when slide grease and oil can get gummy when full of firing residue? Not a hiccup.
I would have said SIG but the trigger bar spring in my 225 broke a few hundred rounds ago.
It has been shot and shot until filthy, and then shot a lot more.
Numbingly cold days when slide grease and oil can get gummy when full of firing residue? Not a hiccup.
I would have said SIG but the trigger bar spring in my 225 broke a few hundred rounds ago.
dhoomonyou
Member
GLOCK.
Limp wrist or not.
Limp wrist or not.
1911 guy
Member
Here we go again.
Are we comparing designs or a stock wundergun with Bubbas kitchen table special done with a bastard file and ball peen hammer?
Give me a properly set up 1911 done by a reputable 'smith or factory and I'll keep up with the Tactical Tupperware guys. Oh, wait. I've already done that.
Are we comparing designs or a stock wundergun with Bubbas kitchen table special done with a bastard file and ball peen hammer?
Give me a properly set up 1911 done by a reputable 'smith or factory and I'll keep up with the Tactical Tupperware guys. Oh, wait. I've already done that.
Ghostrider_23
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Davis Industries 
Bersa
Cobra Enterprises
Are all top and do a heck of a lot better than a H&K, Sig or XD
Bersa
Cobra Enterprises
Are all top and do a heck of a lot better than a H&K, Sig or XD
JAMES77257
Member
I'd say probably the CZ-75B. Ruger's P series guns come to mind also. I've had a number of them over the years, from the P-85 on. In fact, my P-85, their first attempt at such a gun, has been 100% reliable for nearly 20 years now. I use it as a loaner to new shooters and it has had over 30,000 rounds through it without a failure. It has never had a part changed other than recoil springs which should be routinely replaced in any autoloader. I don't keep it all that clean either.
The CZ's I've had experience with seem to be about the same as far as reliability, but mine hasn't had nearly the same number of rounds through it as my Ruger has. It's more accurate, has a better trigger and just has better fit and finish overall. I've put over 7,000 rounds through it so far without a single failure.
For honorable mention, I have a Colt .38 Super from the early '70's that has had over 10,000 rounds of hot handloads through it and it hasn't had any problems either. I hesitate to bring the 1911 into this as there are so many makers of varying quality.
The CZ's I've had experience with seem to be about the same as far as reliability, but mine hasn't had nearly the same number of rounds through it as my Ruger has. It's more accurate, has a better trigger and just has better fit and finish overall. I've put over 7,000 rounds through it so far without a single failure.
For honorable mention, I have a Colt .38 Super from the early '70's that has had over 10,000 rounds of hot handloads through it and it hasn't had any problems either. I hesitate to bring the 1911 into this as there are so many makers of varying quality.
hkenvy91
Member
id say most all mentioned here. my preference is my H&K uspc45
They will surrender their Glocks.
I’m sorry, but all the posts about the Glock?!
Don’t the French police carry 9mm Glocks? I mean come on guys! THE FRENCH? Any society that ranks Jerry Lewis as a comic genius and have mimes as street entertainment plus eat egg pie (quiche) and the men kiss each other on the cheeks? They can’t even hold cigarettes right! You just can’t take the French seriously, so how could you trust the Glock?? Is their even a Chevy pick-up in France, or do they have to go and borrow one from England or Spain when they need one? Please, an Austrian weapon favored by the French, ha!
Don't they also have man-purses too?!?!
I’m sorry, but all the posts about the Glock?!
Don’t the French police carry 9mm Glocks? I mean come on guys! THE FRENCH? Any society that ranks Jerry Lewis as a comic genius and have mimes as street entertainment plus eat egg pie (quiche) and the men kiss each other on the cheeks? They can’t even hold cigarettes right! You just can’t take the French seriously, so how could you trust the Glock?? Is their even a Chevy pick-up in France, or do they have to go and borrow one from England or Spain when they need one? Please, an Austrian weapon favored by the French, ha!
Don't they also have man-purses too?!?!
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bobhaverford
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YoPedro,
I like the way you think. And as a general rule, one can be guided by such considerations. However, it would seem that even a blind squirrel can find the acorn sometimes.
I think the only fair knock on the Glocks, aesthetics aside, insofar as their reliability and design are concerned is the not fully supported chamber issue.
The Springfield XD, from what I understand, has addressed this issue, and while it doesn't have as long a track record as the Glock, would seem to be of equal reliability, durability and accuracy.
Comments?
I like the way you think. And as a general rule, one can be guided by such considerations. However, it would seem that even a blind squirrel can find the acorn sometimes.
I think the only fair knock on the Glocks, aesthetics aside, insofar as their reliability and design are concerned is the not fully supported chamber issue.
The Springfield XD, from what I understand, has addressed this issue, and while it doesn't have as long a track record as the Glock, would seem to be of equal reliability, durability and accuracy.
Comments?
bobhaverford
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Just bought Massad Ayoob's book, "Beretta Pistols" wherein he unapologetically defends the Beretta 92FS as "the most reliable semiauto pistol you can buy out of the box today." He says "Those who've raised their voices to condemn the 92 series Beretta fall into three categories: competitors beaten out on testing, .45 fans, and those who detest double-action autos in general. All three fit another category: sore losers."
Furthermore, "There is simply no other combat auto that comes from the factory with as smooth running a slide as the Beretta 92. It's the envy of the industry in this regard. . . It's double action trigger pull is, if not the best, right up there among the top two or three. . . Only the SIG can equal or barely exceed it in accuracy on a level playing field. . . I've been enormously impressed with the reliability of the countless Berettas I've seen go through my school. . . I can put any firearm I want next to my bed to protect my family and the gun I do put there is a Beretta 92 stainless.
"Every single one of [my] military sources said that the guns were working fine [in Iraq and Afghanistan] with Beretta magazines. . . The Beretta Model 92 is an extremely accurate pistol . . . and today's Beretta 92s are probably the most accurate they've ever been. Experts everywhere attest to the awesome reliability of the Beretta 92."
Quite a testimony to the reliability of the venerable Beretta 92. I know I love mine.
Furthermore, "There is simply no other combat auto that comes from the factory with as smooth running a slide as the Beretta 92. It's the envy of the industry in this regard. . . It's double action trigger pull is, if not the best, right up there among the top two or three. . . Only the SIG can equal or barely exceed it in accuracy on a level playing field. . . I've been enormously impressed with the reliability of the countless Berettas I've seen go through my school. . . I can put any firearm I want next to my bed to protect my family and the gun I do put there is a Beretta 92 stainless.
"Every single one of [my] military sources said that the guns were working fine [in Iraq and Afghanistan] with Beretta magazines. . . The Beretta Model 92 is an extremely accurate pistol . . . and today's Beretta 92s are probably the most accurate they've ever been. Experts everywhere attest to the awesome reliability of the Beretta 92."
Quite a testimony to the reliability of the venerable Beretta 92. I know I love mine.
I'll nominate the Ruger P85 Mk2. If for no other reason than mine's spent more time with me than any of my other handguns. It's been used as a beater gun, camping gun, and has had god knows how many rounds of all bullet types and loadings run through it.
Phil DeGraves
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Let's see. The 1911 has ben around for nearly a century, and no less than 12 companies produce them EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE DESIGNS OF THEIR OWN! It is obvious that the most reliable design EVER is the 1911! This in no way is a slam to all the other reliable designs, but under the context of the question, this is the obvious answer.
I would have said Glock, HK, and Sig, but the G19 stovepiped on me the other day. My HKs and Sig have been 100% so I have to give it to them. I still like the Glock, but it hasn't seen near the rounds the other guns have. Don't drink the Kool-Aid, they're all machines.
dstorm1911
Member
The Glock... the pistol designed for police duty, ya'll do realize that is the standard right? Austria has no real standing army so no need to design the pistol to endure more than the average police officer could throw at it.
The Springfield XD or more correctly the HS2000 (o.k I admit I can't spell its Croation name!!) Was designed for very harsh military service, the Croations not being real big on honering patents shamlessly stole the best design features from these 3 guns
Glock, the frame and trigger safty, concept of the frame block but the croations made theires heavier and tougher
SIG P220 series slide and trigger geometry
1911; grip safty (why shoot yourself while re-holstering if ya don't have to, (BTW this is alarmingly common with Glocks in police dept. due to items like retention straps or shirts depressing Glocks only safty) True single action only for smoother trigger crisper release, the original military surplus imports were very very crisp, unfortunatly Springfields lawyers about had a stroke so extra creep and reset had to be engineered into it for the XD series
I've got a generation 1 HS2000 bought as a military surplus gun well used etc.. for $180 it now has over 35K rnds through it with zero failures of any kind and up untill I was told it "might" be collectable it got the crap beat outa it cause I bought it to be abused, I don't care for plastic guns nor striker fired guns but the d@mned thing sold me on em and now I got so many d@mn plastic guns by several manufactures including Glocks I gotta worry bout how hot my range bag gets!!
OH, and while ya'll was busy bickering nobody mentioned the Sig 210 (the original not the remake) I've got one that was given to me years ago which was shamelessly stolen from the Swiss military by the friend who passed it on to me as part of his esate when he died (I got his gun collection cause he couldn't think of anyone else as nuts as he was) it was totally reliable while he carried it as an officer in the Swiss Army, it was always reliable while he used it in the Arizona deserts and its always been my "sleeper" as I don't really like 9 mms anymore than I like plastic guns but this thing will consistantly shoot rifle like groups at 100+ yards
BTW, The HS2000 was designed specifically for military service under extremally harsh conditions, its also the only plastic gun to ever smoke the Glock in their own torture tests not with a hand selected test specimen but with a randomly picked gun, they then burned 17000 rnds through it BEFORE starting the Glock 10,000 rnd torture test of abuse, no cleaning, freezing etc etc. etc... Glock hadda bring in a pinch hitter to finish the tests the XD.... same gun that started the tests finished the tests ;-)
The Springfield XD or more correctly the HS2000 (o.k I admit I can't spell its Croation name!!) Was designed for very harsh military service, the Croations not being real big on honering patents shamlessly stole the best design features from these 3 guns
Glock, the frame and trigger safty, concept of the frame block but the croations made theires heavier and tougher
SIG P220 series slide and trigger geometry
1911; grip safty (why shoot yourself while re-holstering if ya don't have to, (BTW this is alarmingly common with Glocks in police dept. due to items like retention straps or shirts depressing Glocks only safty) True single action only for smoother trigger crisper release, the original military surplus imports were very very crisp, unfortunatly Springfields lawyers about had a stroke so extra creep and reset had to be engineered into it for the XD series
I've got a generation 1 HS2000 bought as a military surplus gun well used etc.. for $180 it now has over 35K rnds through it with zero failures of any kind and up untill I was told it "might" be collectable it got the crap beat outa it cause I bought it to be abused, I don't care for plastic guns nor striker fired guns but the d@mned thing sold me on em and now I got so many d@mn plastic guns by several manufactures including Glocks I gotta worry bout how hot my range bag gets!!
OH, and while ya'll was busy bickering nobody mentioned the Sig 210 (the original not the remake) I've got one that was given to me years ago which was shamelessly stolen from the Swiss military by the friend who passed it on to me as part of his esate when he died (I got his gun collection cause he couldn't think of anyone else as nuts as he was) it was totally reliable while he carried it as an officer in the Swiss Army, it was always reliable while he used it in the Arizona deserts and its always been my "sleeper" as I don't really like 9 mms anymore than I like plastic guns but this thing will consistantly shoot rifle like groups at 100+ yards
BTW, The HS2000 was designed specifically for military service under extremally harsh conditions, its also the only plastic gun to ever smoke the Glock in their own torture tests not with a hand selected test specimen but with a randomly picked gun, they then burned 17000 rnds through it BEFORE starting the Glock 10,000 rnd torture test of abuse, no cleaning, freezing etc etc. etc... Glock hadda bring in a pinch hitter to finish the tests the XD.... same gun that started the tests finished the tests ;-)
I am a fan of glocks, I even plan on buying a 34 in the future. My point is that EVERY PISTOL JAMS. I'm so sick of hearing these storyies that glocks are supernatural maricle guns that will decompose before they jam. Maybe it was the ammo because I shot one or two glocks before they and they worked fine.
Just a few thoughts...
Every maker has a pistol that jams. Period.
A properly set up 1911 is just as reliable as any glock and 4 times as pretty.
Most 1911's aren't properly set up from the factory.
Pistols in their 9mm flavor are usually more reliable than their .45 counterpart.
The Sig 226 and whatever Gaston's fullsize 9 is are probably the most reliable out of the box.
For .45 the HK USP gets the nod. Its like a glock but accurate.
Every maker has a pistol that jams. Period.
A properly set up 1911 is just as reliable as any glock and 4 times as pretty.
Most 1911's aren't properly set up from the factory.
Pistols in their 9mm flavor are usually more reliable than their .45 counterpart.
The Sig 226 and whatever Gaston's fullsize 9 is are probably the most reliable out of the box.
For .45 the HK USP gets the nod. Its like a glock but accurate.
Rumble
Member
I don't really have the experience or round count to give a solid report. I know that Glocks have a stellar reputation for reliability, so that would be my recommendation. I have a CZ P-01 with premature slide lock issues (I am experimenting with better mag springs; we'll see how that goes), and a bone-stock Springfield MilSpec that has fed everything I've ever put through it without a problem (granted, that's only a few hundred rounds).
Incidentally, Desertscout: FTE is not necessarily the same as a stovepipe, if one means failure to extract instead of failure to eject. Ultimately, if you can't extract, you can't eject, but there is a distinction.
Incidentally, Desertscout: FTE is not necessarily the same as a stovepipe, if one means failure to extract instead of failure to eject. Ultimately, if you can't extract, you can't eject, but there is a distinction.
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