JM Browning
Member
How do sell these guns that are pos, as you say?
What is the most unreliable semi auto you have shot ?
- Thread starter SJ78
- Start date
- Status
ApacheCoTodd
member
Responding to another post finally nudged my memory to offer an opinion on this topic. Without question, the least reliable semi-auto I've dealt with is the Olympic OA-93/96/98 series of AR pistols.
After rebuilding them they could be made to run just fine but outa the boxes - what pooh machines they were.
After rebuilding them they could be made to run just fine but outa the boxes - what pooh machines they were.
Kimber Warrior. Traded for it, was very, very lightly used, doubt the original owner put more than a box through it. It would 3-pt jam after every 2 or 3 rounds in every mag, and would NOT load - at all - my 200gr SWC hand loads, even after changing mag to a Chip McCormic mag. After I gave it some loving (ok, a lot of loving/tuning), it runs like a scalded ape and eats anything.
Cobray M11/9.
Brand new, handed it to my oldest brother at the range- He was new to shooting.
After 2 rounds it went full auto, almost took off his fingers.
I had to convince the RangeMaster it was not my doing, but a malfunction. He was, needless to say, unamused.
It was given to me brand new, in the box, unfired, in payment of a debt.
Brand new, handed it to my oldest brother at the range- He was new to shooting.
After 2 rounds it went full auto, almost took off his fingers.
I had to convince the RangeMaster it was not my doing, but a malfunction. He was, needless to say, unamused.
It was given to me brand new, in the box, unfired, in payment of a debt.
Out of the box 1911. The inherent quality of 1911s is that you have to make it reliable to be reliable and you can not expect a perfect 1911 out of the box. Once tuned by a good gunsmith, it could perform perfectly well....but not as reliable as the M9. I own both 1911 and M9.
larryh1108
Member
I totally disagree with this statement. This is pure internet lore.
tglazier
Member
Sig Sauer Mosquito
Here is interesting fact that I cannot explain regarding Sig Sauer Mosquito: it will always cycle with any type of .22 lr ammunition as long as the last round loaded on top of the clip is a CCI HP! Try it. My results have been duplicated with a friend's Mosquito. Any explanation for this? Literally, the top round makes difference that entire clip fire/cycle flawlessly every time.
Here is interesting fact that I cannot explain regarding Sig Sauer Mosquito: it will always cycle with any type of .22 lr ammunition as long as the last round loaded on top of the clip is a CCI HP! Try it. My results have been duplicated with a friend's Mosquito. Any explanation for this? Literally, the top round makes difference that entire clip fire/cycle flawlessly every time.
Denny Crane
Member
Back in the late 70's the AMT .22 Backup was a true jamamatic.
wristtwister
Member
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 419
Not meaning to insult anybody, but I wonder how many of the problems mentioned in this thread are problems other than "the gun". Magazines often cause the loading and FTF problems in guns, and junky feed ramps cause lots of the loading problems. I've got a lot of the guns mentioned in these posts, and they all seem to run fine and put lead downrange for me... even the "classic" junk guns... FEG's, Tanfoglio clones, etc. .
I buy most of my guns "used" and if I can, talk to the previous owner and listen to the problems they had. When I hear how they "tried to fix" some of the problems, I know exactly where to go to get it running correctly. Guns are mechanical devices, and when they fit correctly, they usually run correctly. I've found dozens of extractors incorrectly mounted, bent magazines, dinged feed ramps, etc. that were simple to fix and viola... I had a gun that ran flawlessly.
Working in a gun shop, it's easy to take a gun apart and look to see if there is a problem actually existing, or if the owner just doesn't know what's going on. Many times, they bring guns back in that haven't had enough rounds through them to "break them in"... and most of the time, I send them back out with a couple of boxes of ammo to "finish the job". About 80-85% of them come back and tell me the gun "is now working perfectly". The initial exam often shows up the dinged feed ramps and dinged up magazines... which, when polished with use or replaced, let the gun run correctly.
If they're actually broken, we send them back to the factory, who want to record the problems and fix their assembly processes or designs... but most of the problems aren't design problems... and anybody can screw up an assembly of "bin" parts for a particular piece of equipment.
I've got the Llama .380's, Tangfolio clones, S&W 39, EAA witness 10MM, and a host of others that were declared "junk" here, but run like a sewing machine when I'm shooting mine. Yes, they might have jammed up or had a problem, but rather than cursing it out and throwing it away, I fixed the problems and now they run fine.
The only real piece of junk I've ever had was a Zastava M-88 that I never could get to run correctly... and that was (I think) a warped frame problem, because I did hours worth of work on it, and never could get it to function... but it wasn't bought with high expectations. It was a cheap gun and didn't have a lot going for it out of the box. I've seen other M-88's that ran fine, I just happened to get the one that was junk. Maybe, it was just "my turn".
Seriously, I think any gun that isn't destroyed is fixable, and for the most part, the problems are simple to fix. Make sure it's put together correctly first, that the parts fit and are working (magazines), and that you've run enough ammo through it to clean out the "manufacturing flash" that's left in the rails and parts, and you'll find a world of difference. Most manufacturers recommend sending 200 rounds through the gun before sending it back to the factory (unless obvious flaws, like broken extractors occur), and then give it a good cleaning and make sure you shoot the type ammo the gun likes.
WT
I buy most of my guns "used" and if I can, talk to the previous owner and listen to the problems they had. When I hear how they "tried to fix" some of the problems, I know exactly where to go to get it running correctly. Guns are mechanical devices, and when they fit correctly, they usually run correctly. I've found dozens of extractors incorrectly mounted, bent magazines, dinged feed ramps, etc. that were simple to fix and viola... I had a gun that ran flawlessly.
Working in a gun shop, it's easy to take a gun apart and look to see if there is a problem actually existing, or if the owner just doesn't know what's going on. Many times, they bring guns back in that haven't had enough rounds through them to "break them in"... and most of the time, I send them back out with a couple of boxes of ammo to "finish the job". About 80-85% of them come back and tell me the gun "is now working perfectly". The initial exam often shows up the dinged feed ramps and dinged up magazines... which, when polished with use or replaced, let the gun run correctly.
If they're actually broken, we send them back to the factory, who want to record the problems and fix their assembly processes or designs... but most of the problems aren't design problems... and anybody can screw up an assembly of "bin" parts for a particular piece of equipment.
I've got the Llama .380's, Tangfolio clones, S&W 39, EAA witness 10MM, and a host of others that were declared "junk" here, but run like a sewing machine when I'm shooting mine. Yes, they might have jammed up or had a problem, but rather than cursing it out and throwing it away, I fixed the problems and now they run fine.
The only real piece of junk I've ever had was a Zastava M-88 that I never could get to run correctly... and that was (I think) a warped frame problem, because I did hours worth of work on it, and never could get it to function... but it wasn't bought with high expectations. It was a cheap gun and didn't have a lot going for it out of the box. I've seen other M-88's that ran fine, I just happened to get the one that was junk. Maybe, it was just "my turn".
Seriously, I think any gun that isn't destroyed is fixable, and for the most part, the problems are simple to fix. Make sure it's put together correctly first, that the parts fit and are working (magazines), and that you've run enough ammo through it to clean out the "manufacturing flash" that's left in the rails and parts, and you'll find a world of difference. Most manufacturers recommend sending 200 rounds through the gun before sending it back to the factory (unless obvious flaws, like broken extractors occur), and then give it a good cleaning and make sure you shoot the type ammo the gun likes.
WT
larryh1108
Member
I totally agree, wristtwister. Everything you've stated is right on. I love buying guns that are "no good" and with a little cleaning, tweaking or whatever, make it run like a top.
So true. I don't understand how some guys get so bent because their Gun X will fire 99% of the ammo out there but won't shoot Brand X, grain Y, ogive Z reliably. They'll cuss it out, call it junk and sell it for a loss. It can be 100% reliable with any other brand but that one and they can't accept that.
I am surprised as well at some of the proven reliable guns in this thread but it does go to show you that everybody makes an occasional lemon. Machining parts get worn and the last batch made by a cutter may have been sloppy before they replaced it. The company that made it should toss that batch out but many don't and that's where problems show up. If a machine part can make 10,000 units before it's no good then maybe they should replace it at 8,000 instead of 10,000. Why risk QC for the last 500 or so? Is it cost effective to have to do warranty work on that last batch or to lose a loyal customer? Penny wise and dollar foolish causes many problems. I'm sure the cost to replace worn machine parts is expensive but it can be more expensive to lose customers in the long run.
So true. I don't understand how some guys get so bent because their Gun X will fire 99% of the ammo out there but won't shoot Brand X, grain Y, ogive Z reliably. They'll cuss it out, call it junk and sell it for a loss. It can be 100% reliable with any other brand but that one and they can't accept that.
I am surprised as well at some of the proven reliable guns in this thread but it does go to show you that everybody makes an occasional lemon. Machining parts get worn and the last batch made by a cutter may have been sloppy before they replaced it. The company that made it should toss that batch out but many don't and that's where problems show up. If a machine part can make 10,000 units before it's no good then maybe they should replace it at 8,000 instead of 10,000. Why risk QC for the last 500 or so? Is it cost effective to have to do warranty work on that last batch or to lose a loyal customer? Penny wise and dollar foolish causes many problems. I'm sure the cost to replace worn machine parts is expensive but it can be more expensive to lose customers in the long run.
History.Doc
Member
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2012
- Messages
- 131
Walther p22. I'd never seen anything like it.
Wrister with todays economy im not sure your recomendations are reasonable.
So a workin man wants a personal defense gun. Finds himself a
brand x = 600$
Shoot 200 "break in rounds"= 50-100$
Make sure the magazines are reliable and buy replacements if neccessary=0-100$
Find the brand of carry ammo it likes run each mag several times to test function= 50$
if it doesnt "like" the first brand repeat until you find one it does "like"= 0-150$
Gunsmith time is about 50$ per hour plus getin the gun to/from them...
So 700$-1000$+++ to get something that should run right out pf the box. No gun should require "break-in" and should run with in-spec ammo. If not it is a poorly designed or made gun
So a workin man wants a personal defense gun. Finds himself a
brand x = 600$
Shoot 200 "break in rounds"= 50-100$
Make sure the magazines are reliable and buy replacements if neccessary=0-100$
Find the brand of carry ammo it likes run each mag several times to test function= 50$
if it doesnt "like" the first brand repeat until you find one it does "like"= 0-150$
Gunsmith time is about 50$ per hour plus getin the gun to/from them...
So 700$-1000$+++ to get something that should run right out pf the box. No gun should require "break-in" and should run with in-spec ammo. If not it is a poorly designed or made gun
MCgunner
Member
Don't like the auto routine, you can always carry a revolver. I shoot enough through a new revolver to check accuracy. Function is not at question.
Well, I thought that when a friend had that Beretta Minx he couldn't make run. AH, I says to myself, "he's a moron, I can make it run".
I didn't pay much for it, sold it at a slight profit to a dealer at a local gun show. Didn't feel bad that i stiffed the dealer, either. I tried several types of ammo, messed with the feed lips on the mag, this and that. Came to the conclusion it was just a POS and not worth messing with. I didn't wanna try sending it to the manufacturer or anything. I let someone else mess with that. I ain't that high on .22 short autos, anyway. To this day, I won't buy that design. No extractor virtually assures it'll at LEAST be ammo picky to the max and, well, they ain't exactly plinking accurate, either.
Well, I thought that when a friend had that Beretta Minx he couldn't make run. AH, I says to myself, "he's a moron, I can make it run".
I didn't pay much for it, sold it at a slight profit to a dealer at a local gun show. Didn't feel bad that i stiffed the dealer, either. I tried several types of ammo, messed with the feed lips on the mag, this and that. Came to the conclusion it was just a POS and not worth messing with. I didn't wanna try sending it to the manufacturer or anything. I let someone else mess with that. I ain't that high on .22 short autos, anyway. To this day, I won't buy that design. No extractor virtually assures it'll at LEAST be ammo picky to the max and, well, they ain't exactly plinking accurate, either. CountGlockulla
Member
Para Ordnance
jad0110
Member
Taurus 908 9mm. The ejector sheered off and lodged in the slide rail. Completely froze the gun up. The slide may as well have been welded to the frame.
Big_John1961
Member
Kahr P380, bar none. It's a piece of junk as far as I'm concerned.
meanmrmustard
Member
Spot on.
- Status