What is the strongest framed 357 magnum
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If you're talking about the Ruger GP100 (hence, your screen name), no, the above loads won't hurt your revolver.
If you're talking about S&W 'N' frames, with extensive rapid double action shooting, they have a reputation for going out of time because the mass of the cylinder opens up the cylinder stop and batters the cylinder stop lever.
MCgunner
Member
I've been away from this thread for a while. But, so, if end shake comes from the crane and not the frame, explain to me how a single action, which has no crane, can get end shake, which they do....
End shake is not a "springed" or sprung anything. End shake occurs over time from lots of shooting, either the frame stretching or just the ends of the cylinder getting banged up. It can be fixed by shims if it's not really bad. Might have to set the barrel back to adjust B/C gap if it is. And the worse it gets, the more it will wear, so it needs to be taken care of quickly.Go back to your S&W koolaid now. Ruger has you beat and Freedom Arms beats any .357 ever made for strength, just the way it is. Accept it, it's true.
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Go back to your S&W koolaid now. Ruger has you beat and Freedom Arms beats any .357 ever made for strength, just the way it is. Accept it, it's true.
I own all three brands.
I made my statement in the context of post #14, i.e. 357 Maximum level loads. You are talking about normal wear and tear caused by metal striking metal or metal rubbing against metal. I am talking about metal bending and stretching under pressure.
It is clear you lack a basic understanding of things mechanical. It is blatantly obvious that in a system where a cylinder is attached to a crane, the crane itself will peen and bend before a fully boxed frame will.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Okay.......
I hope you know that you need to handload to take advantage of the strength of any of these guns. At this point, I know of no source for loading data, unless Freedom Arms provides 353 data.
sonier
Member
there is also much more load data out there I am a member at ammoguide I can find load data for the 357 maximum and 357 supermag, I will have to do what ive always done and that is pull up 100s of load datas and find out what the avg maximums are for those cartridges. Then i will slowly work up to that point, 353 casull load data says that you must use small rifle primers which I will try, but I have a feeling my problem will be with primers and not the gun failing if I do everything right.
zxcvbob
Member
I recommend you paint the case heads with a red Magic Marker in case the rounds ever get separated from the box. They should be obviously not normal .357 Magnums, even to an untrained moron. (you don't know who may find them when you are not around)
MCgunner
Member
Again, what about single action revolvers? You're saying they cannot suffer end shake?
sonier
Member
lol arguing over something this simple. Yea id prolly paint them something maybe even us a special bullet for those loads. cause i can see them getting mixed and kaboom.
XxWINxX94
Member
I think the Python is the Cadillac out of the bunch.
There is also a few S&W's that are on large frames.
There is also a few S&W's that are on large frames.
They can, but the end shake is not typically caused by frame stretching. It is caused by peening of the cylinder bushing or wear due to improper lubrication. By the time a gunsmith gets the gun, he has no idea what the original frame dimension was. He does not have an x-ray machine. How can he know if it's stretched and by what amount? I have seen visibly stretched frames caused by firing a round with a barrel obstruction, however.
In addition, you have to consider the age of the gun. We cannot compare a 1930's gun to a 1990's gun. Of course, a 1990's casting is prolly stronger and more durable than a 1930's forging, but that is a matter of advanced alloys. I would not want to convert a pre-war Colt to 44 Magnum. A modern forging will always be stronger than a modern casting if the right alloy and heat treatment is utilized.
My intent is not to rip into Ruger. I have a 6" GP-100 and my first gun was a 4" GP-100. I broke the cylinder stop by running alot of 110gr JHP over 16grs of Blue Dot. Ruger fixed it for free. I then eroded the forcing cone bu running some 36gr glue-gun-glue filled copper jackets over 11grs of 231 @ 2400 FPS. When I got Quick Load software I realized I was running 60,000 PSI with that load. Did the cases stick? No. It took 12 grs of 231 to stick cases. Bottom line, I wore out and broke a GP-100 with stupid loads. But that was a long time ago. Today I try to run the lightest load I can.
BTW, Freedom Arms frames are cast form 17-4 PH stainless. Are they stronger than S&W X-frames? Doubt it. They are both adequate to withstand constant pounding by 50,000+ PSI large bore loads.
Last, please look at the thickness of the Python or New Frontier top straps. You cannot honestly think that Ruger's frame is stonger.
Probably the strongest .357 is the Ruger Redhawk followed by the large frame BlackHawks and FA's. Any .357 on a .44M frame will handle about any thing you want to put through it.
The Colt Pythons, while a beautiful piece of work, have been noted to have some time issues and most of the mid-frame Smith's or Rugers are more than strong enough for most shooters. Both will give you years of faithful service.
If you want to shoot a .357 that hot, I would jump to a .44M. Same frame, more power, same weight and you can down load it to .357 power, but you can't (safely) load a .357 to .44M levels.
The Colt Pythons, while a beautiful piece of work, have been noted to have some time issues and most of the mid-frame Smith's or Rugers are more than strong enough for most shooters. Both will give you years of faithful service.
If you want to shoot a .357 that hot, I would jump to a .44M. Same frame, more power, same weight and you can down load it to .357 power, but you can't (safely) load a .357 to .44M levels.
stchman
Member
Everything i have read is the Ruger GP-100 is the strongest revolver out there. Rugers revolvers in general are built heavier than they need to be.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I'm sorry but NO Ruger is as strong as a Freedom Arms. Not only are FA 83's beefier overall they also feature a five-shot cylinder with better steels and heat treating. FA is at the top, no doubt.
stchman
Member
Everybody keeps talking Redhawk .357 and according to Ruger's site the Redhawk does not come in .357.
I imagine a while back they did. So it looks like the OP would have to get a used .357 if he/she wants a Redhawk.
Did the GP-100 replace the Redhawk .357?
Thanks.
I imagine a while back they did. So it looks like the OP would have to get a used .357 if he/she wants a Redhawk.
Did the GP-100 replace the Redhawk .357?
Thanks.
Maybe, but I think my Magnum Research BFR's are right up the with a Freedom Arms.
The Freedom Arms also cost a heck of a lot more.
tuckerdog1
Member
The Redhawk in .357 was discontinued several years ago, but if you can find one, jump on it.
FA's are very, very good, but do they make the 83 in .357 I am only asking, because I'm not sure. I know they have a 6 shot M97 (?), but it is only 5 shot in other calibers.
Probably the best best and the cheapest, is to buy a large frame Ruger Blackhawk. NO revolver is perfect and all can go KABOOOOOOM, stick with a proven maker, FA, Ruger, S&W (large frame) BFR etc and you will have a lot of shooting years in any of those and your hand will give out long before any of those mentioned will.Good shooting-----
FA's are very, very good, but do they make the 83 in .357 I am only asking, because I'm not sure. I know they have a 6 shot M97 (?), but it is only 5 shot in other calibers.
Probably the best best and the cheapest, is to buy a large frame Ruger Blackhawk. NO revolver is perfect and all can go KABOOOOOOM, stick with a proven maker, FA, Ruger, S&W (large frame) BFR etc and you will have a lot of shooting years in any of those and your hand will give out long before any of those mentioned will.Good shooting-----
tuckerdog1
Member
Yea, they still make em. Gone up a little since I last looked
http://www.freedomarms.com/
Tuckerdog1
Jim Watson
Member
For the stated purpose of shooting overloads, I have to go with the F.A.
Once upon a time, they would put a replaceable bushing in the barrel's forcing cone but I do not see that option in their literature today. That's ok, when you erode out the barrel throat, the barrel can be set back a couple of turns. And a new cylinder is only $285 if you burn it up or jug a chamber.
BullRunBear
Member
I have a 357 Redhawk, 7.5" barrel, stainless. I've been told they took their 44 magnum Redhawk, which was already over engineered, and made the changes needed for the smaller caliber but the same overall gun. I believe they were only made for a couple of years in the mid-70s and that only about 5,000 were manufactured. Wish I could confirm those numbers but that's what I recall.
Back then I was interested in the hottest loads I could develop (safely) and the Redhawk handled them with no problem. Don't care for such extreme loads these days (older and, maybe, smarter) but my Redhawk will tame any normal 357 loading. The joke is it is suberbly accurate with powder puff 38 special wadcutters. Feels like using a howitzer to fire a 22lr.
The 357 Redhawk may not be the strongest frame out there but it has to be in the top grouping.
Jeff
Back then I was interested in the hottest loads I could develop (safely) and the Redhawk handled them with no problem. Don't care for such extreme loads these days (older and, maybe, smarter) but my Redhawk will tame any normal 357 loading. The joke is it is suberbly accurate with powder puff 38 special wadcutters. Feels like using a howitzer to fire a 22lr.
The 357 Redhawk may not be the strongest frame out there but it has to be in the top grouping.
Jeff
MCgunner
Member
X frames are chambered in .357 now? If the cylinder crane is the root of all end shake evil, why would ya want a DA anyway over a SA? And, the Freedom Arms is a heavy gun, but the X frames fit on the same carriage as the Hodgkiss cannon, I'm told.
Pound for pound, the SA revolver is stronger than the DA. Simple, double sided frames with no side plate. The Ruger DAs with their crane lock up and no side plate is good, but I'll still take the SA designs for strength and FA is the best of them and is also available in .357 magnum which is the OP's question.
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