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AJC1
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I don't know of any powder faster than 4227/h110 that a compressed load is mentioned. It makes sense to eliminate the entire burn rate chart faster than that.
What is the weird aversion to compressed loads.
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Charlie98
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Which makes sense... slower powders usually require a bigger charge, by weight, which usually translates into a very full case. I don't know that I've ever topped out a .308 case full of IMR3031, for example, let alone IMRs 4895 or 4064 in a .30-06 case, for example.
I'm not a fan of compressed charges... only because of two reasons: I'm not familiar with it... and some of that is a trade-off between working with a new, unfamiliar powder at levels that would require compression, and the fact that I just don't load big enough to have a combination that would require it in the first place. I like case fill, because there is usually (well, none that I know of, but I don't like to make statements that are absolute... because there is almost always a caveat...) no downside to it, and most rifle powders like 95% and above case fill, but not necessarily compressed loads.
When I first started loading IMR4227, I started... well... at the starting loads. Terrible performance! In a fit, because I was now stuck with nearly 2# of this junk, I bumped the charge up to an even 20grns (in the .41MAG) and just loaded it out, to get rid of it. The nearly compressed 20grn charge acted like a different powder! I couldn't believe it.
Varminterror
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Reloader mythos’ - compressed loads are dangerous, H110 can’t be reduced, ball powders require magnum primers, velocity is commensurate with pressure, over-book max loads are dangerous, pressure spikes above book maximums….
Almost all of it is BS, and almost none of it are universally applicable as they are so often touted.
Almost all of it is BS, and almost none of it are universally applicable as they are so often touted.
GeoDudeFlorida
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I've seen compressed loads in Lymans manuals for IMR 800X and Blue Dot, mostly in .40S&W and 9mm. The ancient wisdom on Blue Dot is it likes to run under pressure with no or very little air-gap space, especially with heavier bullets. The .3555" Fiocchi 142gr. "Any Thirty-Five" bullet in 9mm over 6gr. of Blue Dot works best as a slightly compressed load, with a deep seat on the bullet past the faux cannelure. It's also a flame-thrower!
Unique doesn't mind being compressed in smaller cases but it gets pretty energetic so watch the pressure closely and work up slowly. Really, any of the made-for-shotgun powders are designed for a lightly-compressed load - in a shotshell. When you take them out of their natural element is when things get a little weird.
I don't know that there's a weird aversion to compressed loads. I do think there's a perfectly logical and reasonable aversion to over-loads.
I agree completely. That's why I load it with AA#9 . No bullet set back!
LocoGringo
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As a relatively inexperienced reloader, I can answer the OP's question directly...for myself at least. The desire to avoid compressed loads comes from ignorance/lack of experience/fear of destroying gun or self. It just doesn't seem natural to fit more powder in the case and then cram a bullet on top of it to force it into place essentially crushing the powder to a degree. I understand the load data may say a compressed load is ok, but to a new reloader, what is a "light" compression vs. a "heavy" compression and what does the difference feel like in a reloading press lever? To avoid the possibility of compressing too much, don't compress.
As a previous poster stated, I load for acceptable accuracy to me. If I get a load that 5 rounds are within .5-.75", I'm thrilled and see no need to push the envelope for a compressed load. I'm not shooting benchrest where a .1" difference matters, and I'm probably not a good enough shooter to realize the difference.
As a previous poster stated, I load for acceptable accuracy to me. If I get a load that 5 rounds are within .5-.75", I'm thrilled and see no need to push the envelope for a compressed load. I'm not shooting benchrest where a .1" difference matters, and I'm probably not a good enough shooter to realize the difference.
GBExpat
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I, personally, have a bit of a Love/Hate relationship with safe, mildly-compressed loads.
I love the idea that it may improve ignition consistency & I hate that each load will require more propellant than most others choices.
Things being mostly equal, I am one of Those Guys that will choose the flavor of powder that costs/takes less for the same performance.
I love the idea that it may improve ignition consistency & I hate that each load will require more propellant than most others choices.
Things being mostly equal, I am one of Those Guys that will choose the flavor of powder that costs/takes less for the same performance.
__steve__
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Crushing bullets have kept me from meeting some of the compressed published loads. One powder in particular is compressing 54 gr of CFEBLK in a 500 case.
I do know one slightly faster than 4227 & H110 that compresses well, and that is (was) 4759. I still have 3 lbs of it, saving for very special occasions.
Charlie98
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You forgot one... Don't use BlueDot in the .41MAG.
I don't disagree with what you are saying, but using those 'often touted' mythos in general terms will keep you pretty safe. With the exception of reducing H110, which I have never done and don't expect to, I've colored outside those lines a bit in my handloading career, and I'm still here. It's not something I would cavalierly recommend, generally, but in specific applications.
Cheesemaker
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This.
I was loading up some 44 Mag last night.240gr XTP Hornady's - mid range, nothing silly. Less space left in the case than the bullet took up. So a little compression. Works well for me.
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AJC1
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That's like asking what the right amount of crimp feels like. You have to do it a few times and then it's a known.
LocoGringo
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Agreed, but that's part of the aversion. You asked, I answered...for me. However, I doubt too much crimp will raise the risk of blowing up the gun or injuring someone. Too much compression with the wrong powder runs that risk.
Bcwitt
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I started hand loading w 7x57. You could compress it until the necks split & still not over charge (4350, 760, 414)). It depends on the powder & the specific chamber. If bulk density exeeds case capacity, you cannot hardly get in too much trouble. It does take some care to prevent powder from getting between bullet & case neck, especially with boattails. Stick powders tend to push the bullet back out, if highly compessed.
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AJC1
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That's a powder type not a compressed load issue. An overcharge is an overcharge compression is not a factor.
Ironicaintit
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So I was loading some 300wm with bullseye and got a compressed load. That's fine, right?
(I'm just joking)
(I'm just joking)
LocoGringo
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Ok, great, I'm learning something which is why I join these forums, but you asked "why the weird aversion to compressed loads?" and I'm telling you why. I even explained it fairly simply in my original reply.
So are you asking to ridicule those who don't know as much as you or are you asking to understand why other people avoid compressing loads?
GeoDudeFlorida
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I think that’s what I described above as a perfectly reasonable aversion to overloading. The main thing is to stick with the manual numbers as closely as possible - bullet, powder, case headstamp - everything exactly as described in the manual and use that as an exemplar: you know the handle pressure is right because the table says it’s right. Once you get past that first batch of by-the-book compressed loads you will have a light bulb moment and from then on you will know what a properly compressed load feels like.
P Flados
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Actually, some Red Dot, Green Dot and Unique loads are compressed in small case high pressure handgun rounds. The powder is so fluffy that you do not even notice that you are compressing the powder when seating the bullet.
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AJC1
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It's a discussion to bring about knowledge by all parties. I never made a ridiculous blow yourself up remark although some have had some fun. I did say that a bad load is bad compressed or not. I encourage people like you to trust your manual and try new things. I believe most things in reloading that lead to a gain in knowledge are a good thing. Getting the feel of a proper crimp is just one of many. I come here to learn and converse, not to put people down. I hope you didn't feel like I was.
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AJC1
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The few times I loaded unique in a 9mm it was a pretty full case. I never felt compression but it was probably real close. Only used red dot one time and none of the others despite my efforts to locate the blue dot.
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AJC1
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That 41 mag warning has caused me consternation because I can't imagine 357 or 44 is different enough to not be problematic. Do you have a link or specifics. Is it any bullet or light bullet problems like 110 gainers with 296 eating the top strap in 357.
Engineer1911
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I had a "Well Shot" 25-06 prairie dog rifle. Best dear load was 110 to 120 grain bullet ANY manufacturer, and a FULL case of AA 8700 powder gently tapped on table until 100% full case. Seat bullet to the correct OAL. The (In)Famous Accurate Arms Reloading Manual #1 listed a max load 1.3 grains more than I could get in the case. Accuracy was 3/4" to 1" at 100 yards with 3 shots. Chronograph read 3,500 fps -- right up there with Weatherby 257 Magnum velocity. My prairie dog load of 53 grains H414 clocked at 3,700 fps with the same 26" barrel for about 10 to 11 years of shooting. Besides 2# of AA 8700, That gun shot 34# of H414 powder before 'failing in service' -- groups were measured in feet and bullets were sideways in profile. The bolt handle lifted with 1 finger with both loads and the primer was not flattened.
I have shot a bunch of compressed loads in both my 270win and 223 rem. IMR 3031 has been a good powder for me in 223 but most loads are compressed as it fills the case fast being a bulky powder. Speer lists a max charge that is practically full to the top of the case.
Charlie98
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Speaking specifically to the BlueDot/.41 issue... Alliant issued a warning over it, it's out there. Like you, I don't see the issue, particularly comparing the .41 to the .44MAG, or even hot (Ruger) .45 Colt loads... but, again, Alliant issued the warning. I have loaded BlueDot in the .41 prior to Alliant's warning... and nothing good or bad happened, which is why I abandoned the powder. Is there some specific charge weight/bullet weight combo? Yes... in the .357MAG, but not .41...
https://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/safety/safety_notices.aspx
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AJC1
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Well I didn't even know about the 357 limitation so thank you for pointing that out.
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