What is up with American quality control?!?!?!? *RANT*

[RyeDaddy]

This is not to start a flame war, but I have serious problems with American built handguns! :banghead: I now own three that were built here in the good old US of A, and all three had problems right from the start.

First one was my Ruger Vaquero, the base pin was apparently too short, so the transfer bar would often get caught up on the firing pin, making the gun impossible to cock. I could have sent it back, but it cost me $25 for a Belt Mountain base pin (what it would have cost me to ship to Ruger), and I didn't have to be without the gun.

Second one is my Kimber Desert Warrior, which jams every 30 or so rounds, with ANY kind of ammo or magazines. Unfortunately, I didn't get to try the 7 round mag that it came with much, as it broke on my first range trip, and I haven't messed with it since. The plastic piece under the follower came out, making the edge of the follower sharp, so I don't use it. It jammed with the original mag anyway, so whatever. I've since used Wilson's and Chip McCormick, and the pistol exhibits the same behavior with either. I'm working up the nerve to send this back, but I can't stand the idea of being without it for months, and I'll probably get it back with a note that says they couldn't find anything wrong with it.

The third and most insulting is my new S&W 640PD. I bought it over the weekend for a carry gun, brand new. Took it to the range today, and two rounds of 38 special into it, I get a "CLICK!" What the hell? Pull the trigger again, "CLICK!" Apparently it only took two shots to disconnect or break the spring that pushes out the hand or whatever it's called that revolves the cylinder!, while the firing pin will operate, it won't revolve the cylinder! Unbelievable!!! I'm not taking this thing apart, this will be headed to S&W TOMORROW!!!

For those keeping score, that's 3 for 3! I know not everyone has experiences like this, but I am absolutely astonished that all 3 of my American guns had problems right out of the box. It's especially unnerving that 2 of them are revolvers, which I always thought to be unstoppable.

My European guns by contrast have never had a single problem EVER! My HK's and my lone Glock have never had a hiccup of any kind, feeding, extracting, firing, nothing. Thousands of rounds, and still not a single malfunction. It's also strange that the Glock is the cheapest handgun I've bought, and it runs circles around my domestics.

Rant over, at least I have a place to get this out. I'm still astonished, though.

 

[Autolycus]

Well I was going to suggest purchasing a European styled gun but I guess you realized that on your own.

I personally prefer HK or Sig. I do want a nice 1911 and am probably going to purchase an STI. I owned a Kimber and it worked fine for me. The only gun I have ever owned that gave me problems was a Beretta 92FS Brigadier. It just did not work for me.

 

[gudel]

nothing pissed people off more than a gun that does not work when you need it which is why I stick to my HK's.

 

[strat81]

No American iron in my drawer or driveway. I do not intentionally seek out non-american products (guns or otherwise), but I do value quality. Most of ammo is american, but I have a few hundred rounds of Sellier & Bellot which is surprisingly good!

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

I feel the same

Germans make THE best handguns and Rifles.
- My SIGs and Walthers have been the most reliable non stop death Machines ive had.

-I'd trade organs for a G36K

Italians make the best shotguns.

-Beretta and Benelli shotguns rule the roost in my book.


Americans make the best women though!

 

[Jim K]

Too many American makers, especially those who make 1911 clones, know they are making big boys' toys for the range, not "real" guns, and don't care. Rarely are 1911 type pistols carried by serious gun folks today; almost all have gone to Glocks, SIGs, H&Ks and Berettas.

Another problem is that makers have gone cheap. One way of cutting costs without the buyer knowing is to not bother test firing. At one time, every major gun maker fired a proof load for each chamber, plus at least one full cylinder/magazine for function firing. (Ruger claimed that eliminated 99.99% of the potential returns by catching mistakes before they left the factory.)

One major maker of 1911 clones fires one round, and it is not even a proof round. Some don't fire their guns at all before shipping.

The Ruger failure is surprising, as they have been one of the better makers, as has S&W, but the problem seems to be endemic.

Jim

 

[gudel]

Some don't fire their guns at all before shipping.

I used to work for a software company, we tested our software before releasing it.

Thank god the FDA don't have the same people as those gun makers!

Another problem is that makers have gone cheap

compared to some of these 1911 that people complain it don't work right out of the box, they should be ashame setting up the price higher than my HK. 1911 makers seem to be the worst offender in this area, making crap guns that don't work right out of the box.
People yet still complain about it, knowing very well what you're getting into from the get go.
I guess there's always a sucker born every minute, a fool and his money.

 

[kbheiner7]

Rarely are 1911 type pistols carried by serious gun folks today

 

[foob]

1911 makers seem to be the worst offender in this area, making crap guns that don't work right out of the box.

Dude how are the 1911 gunsmiths gonna feed their family if you start with a 100% reliable gun?

The problem is quality control is a process, not a separate task you perform on parts or when the product is assembled. I don't think firearm manufacturers are willing to spend much money to hire the right people to oversee and continually improve the manufacturing and assembly line. Maybe their profits margins are just too small.

Read about six sigma (used by motorola, GE, raytheon, etc). The aim is 3.4 defects per million opportunities. If firearm manufacturers could achieve that we wouldn't need to send a 1911 (or other firearm) for work on reliability, accuracy, fit, etc. Firearm design, like anything else, should be continually improving, but due to various reasons, we still use original designs and expect it to hold up to more modern designs with no tweaking. That isn't realistic.

 

[Sunray]

The MBA's started it. Then the rest of the world accepted the ISO 9000 series QC standard. And NIH raised its ugly head.
"...1911 makers..." There's one. Colt. All the rest are clones. Just like FN is the only BHP maker. Well, except for Inglis.

 

[Jackal]

Americans make the best women though!

I don't know, they require more maintenance than any American auto. I'm thinking about an asian lady to go with my asian vehicle. Maybe just outsource our women?

 

[fattsgalore]

Rye,
It just sounds like you have bad luck... Partially. Even though 1911's are 50/50 out of most pistols. No particular brands but the design in general. I heard they need a break in time. I know theres probably dozens of guys with a drawer full of them right now wanting to pistol whip me.

Truth is thats the reason I bought a Glock(which i kind of don't like for personal reasons) i was 89% sure I'd have no problems. Which i haven't. Glock was sold on the point that they had fewer parts then the conventional gun. Something like 36 or so parts. Compared to sixty or seventy normally. Don't get it twisted, I've heard horror stories involving Glocks but personally don't know of anyone. Everyone i know with a Glock had never been disappointed.

And i thought revolvers were bullet proof until i watched GunsAndAmmoTV torture test. Where they dropped a S&W 629(i think) in muriatic acid. Lets just say the gun didn't make it. As for sending the guns to the factory. Man, you have other guns, it's not as if your defenseless. Whats the point of having a malfunctioning gun in your collection. Sentiment is for the weak.(just kidding)

When my Bersa Thunder 45 messed up i couldn't do anything cause it was my one and only gun and i had no clue what to do or who to contact. I'd at least get a magazine through.(the magazine release broke and after firring it the thing would jam... no failure to feeds though. at least I'd dump a mag before i go down) Now with the argument it's American guns i think is a bit much. As someone pointed out it's the gun industry. People swear by brands and makes and models and some people will tell you it's a hunk of junk. Just like a car you can get a brand new lemon no matter how much you spend. Even though i don't by domestic vehicles. Sorry America its not my fault you make ugly crappy cars.

PS Keep updates on your malfunctioning firearms.

 

[Mad Chemist]

Fatsgalore,

Try spacing or possibly paragraphs. They are quite a bit easier on the eyes.

 

[GARY1911A1]

Only HK and Sig were approved for Homeland Security. I'm glad our men and women are going to have the best, but it's sad no American Co. was able to make the list. I've neen buying HKs lately and that says something when you consider my online name.

 

[rustymaggot]

one of the reasons i like old used guns, they are all tried and true and they were built to last.

i have owned a 1911 and it was a colt. it was a good one. my friends have made the mistake of getting non colt 1911s and they have spent loads fixing them and replacing parts to make em work. roll withthe real thing, and forget the tacticool doodads and extened whatchawhosits. cant beat a bone stock colt when your talking about 1911s.

 

[dleong]

I purchased a new 44 Mag Ruger Super Blackhawk with the 10.5" barrel back in 2002. Right out of the box, I noticed that the barrel was off index by about 15° clockwise (as viewed from the rear) from "top dead center." The front sight was rotated by that amount to the right, and the rear sight blade was screwed all the way to the right to compensate.

Obviously, the gun had been test-fired at the factory and the rear sight adjusted, but I find it amazing that the person who shot the gun did not notice the canted front sight, or wonder why the rear sight had to be maxed out to the right. Perhaps it was a Friday afternoon and he wanted to get home quick!

(The gun, however, is extremely accurate as it is, which is the reason I'm hesitating sending it back to Ruger.)

 

[Glockfan.45]

Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, Kimber, Smith & Wesson, Ruger, and Remington. I own at least one of each and several Rugers and Remingtons. None of them have ever given me a single problem. My Euro guns include a few Glocks and a WASR10 that have also never given me a problem. I have had trouble with a Beretta before but I dont hold it against the company. I just got a bad one with a few bugs.

I also have a Ford Ranger with over 150,000 100% trouble free miles on it. Saying all American products are junk is a foolhardy statement. If your $1000.00 1911 broke on you take into account that your shooting a gun that has been tweaked beyond what its design intended for it to be. Combat pistols are not meant to have such close tolerances as some matchgrade target models are comming out with. Its just like a high performance race car. If you push the envelope to far for performance you will lose reliability.

And i thought revolvers were bullet proof until i watched GunsAndAmmoTV torture test. Where they dropped a S&W 629(i think) in muriatic acid.

I wonder how often a person has lost the ability to fire their weapon because a bad guy tossed a cup of acid at them .

Rarely are 1911 type pistols carried by serious gun folks today

Thats right just the LAPD SWAT, FBI hostage rescue teams, U.S Special Forces Units, and who knows how many competitive shooters. But hey what do they know?

 

[JohnL2]

You have to hand it to the Germans. They make some really good stuff.
American corporations have been guilty of arrogance for a very long time. Only until foreign competition was introduced to the domestic market did they get off their duffs. But of course by then it was all catch-up because they were caught flatfooted.

Wish I did some time over in Germany while in the service. Probably would have come back with a German lady like some of the guys I knew.

 

[18DAI]

I think American companies are as capable of making fine handguns, as anyone else. It just depends on how much attention they are willing to pay to quality assurance, and how much a customer is willing to pay for that.

 

[CountGlockula]

Just like cars. I've had trouble with Chevy's, Buicks and Fords...now I have a Nissan and it's excellent.

I love the US but, something needs to be done!

 

[ApexinM3]

Nary a problem with either of my Les Baer 1911s, though my SA Loaded 1911 was absolute garbage-bad trigger, poor feeding, poor surface finish, etc. Had to do a lot of work to it to get it right, and I was furious with the shop I bought it from as they wouldn't do squat for me even though it was new.

That said, I have had no other malfunctions. My Smiths have always gone bang. My HKs & SIGs always go bang. Everything I own works with no malfunctions. The rule fro me is this: if it doesn't work, fix it or get rid of it. Simple. And after the Springfield Armory ordeal, do my homework, too.

 

[JLStorm]

I feel your pain sadly. I have an SA 1911 that I dont carry anymore due to issues, even though their customer service is great, that wont help me if Im dead. I carry my HK for work and personal protection and I cant imagine trusting anything else ever again, accept for possibly Sig. I have never had trouble with a S&W revolver BUT, I have heard of plenty of problems with their pistols.

I really try to buy american, but it is so damn hard, I dont mind paying a bit more (which is obvious since I own an HK), but I expect quality for that extra cash. The only thing I have that is american at this point is my Ford F250 pickup truck...but thats only 4 years old....so I may be jinxing myself!

 

[Sniper X]

Yo! Jim K!

No serious people carry 1911? Huh!

Gunsite Training center, allRO's plus the owner carries solely 1911, Cliff and his wife plus a majority at Thunder Ranch carry 1911 and most of all pistoleros who compete compete with 1911...so HUH? Does anyone, anyone at all use other than 1911 in competition? I have a bunch of 1911s and NONE have ever had any malfunctions other than ONCE because of a bad mag which I thru out...

 

[Vern Humphrey]

To a certain extent, it's our fault. When a gun doesn't work, it should go back to the seller -- and if he won't take it, make sure all your shooting buddies know it. Don't shop there anymore.

Demand the company make good on the gun -- and pay the shipping. If they won't, again, make sure all your shooting buddies know it.

Make them hurt if they don't produce quality products.

Now, while I have bought a new Ruger in the last couple of years, almost all the guns I buy are used. I have a Colt Woodsman that is awesome, and a Colt Officers Model Target that is about as good. My favorite .45 Colt is a Colt New Service, made in 1906.

 

[Sniper X]

I totally agree VErn, in fact that is the first thing that came to mind was why did he not immediately take it back to the shop he bought it from and have them make it right?