What is your routine for working up loads in a new revolver?

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Arkansas Paul

Arkansas Paul

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For the first time in a while I will be going out and doing some shooting next week. I'm wondering what you guys' routine was when you get a new six gun and are testing loads for the first time?

I have loaded up several different loads (25 of each) for the .44 special and will be hitting the loading bench again tomorrow afternoon to load a few different .44 magnum loads.


So when you are testing loads, what do you do?
A few five or six shot groups from a rested position?

What range to you test them at at first? (This is a 4.62" revolver with open sights)

Would just like to know how you more experienced guys do it. Maybe I'll learn something that I will incorporate into my own routine.

Thanks.
 
I load a ladder just like I do for rifle. I load about 10 of each for autoloaders just to run a couple extras for cycling reliability, but revolver is pretty straight forward. Load a cylinder count one at a time in about 6 loads from min to max and just see what I like. Adjust from there accordingly. I typically shoot either 7 or 10 yards when testing.
 
Ruger 44mag revolver? If yes, THIS DATA IS OVER PUBLISHED MAXIMUMS AND NOT FOUND IN ANY MANUAL, LOAD AT YOUR OWN RISK: 300grn XTP over 22.0grn H110/W296, seated in the second cannelure. If it doesn't shoot well, send it back.

Any other 44mag revolver in the world? If yes, 23.5grn H110/W296 under 240grn XTP seated to the cannelure. If it doesn't shoot well, send it back.

Seriously though... That's all I really do for 44mags. I've made a lot of other loads for 44mag, but I always start with those two, because if those loads don't shoot, then the revolver falls into the "dog don't hunt" category for me, and no more time needs to be wasted - I can say the same about 42.0grn Varget under the 140NAB for 7-08's, and 4064 under 165/168grn bullets in 30-06... For everything else, it's basically the same process as rifle loading. I pick a powder and bullet weight combination suitable for my application, then work up my own ladder/OCW type test (although I might be convinced on the validity of the Chronograph game of late), and shoot. I don't do any load development inside 50yrds, and always from the rest. 50yrds at 4MOA is only 2", so group size remains to be sufficiently small to make judgements based on the deviation from one charge to the next.

If I'm just working up a range play load, I pick a powder weight which is easy to remember, typically in HP-38, Bullseye, or Unique, and I load up a boatload. They all shoot well enough for the task. These are tested at 25-50yrds. My pistol loads are tested at 25-50yrds too. It's far too easy to get distracted at shorter ranges with what looks like tiny groups.
 
I doubt that you need any tips from the likes of me.
I print my targets from firearmaddicts.com. and write rediculously detailed notes right down to which glasses i choose to wear .
After i have finished checking out the targets, i file them in a folder in an old filing cabinet that i keep in the man-cave.
You might be surprised how many times they get pulled out.
 
In general I do something like this: First I select my bullet for my given cartridge and application. After that I start gathering up as much data as I can reasonaly find on a bullet of that weight and construction (that specific bullet if I can find it). I prefer data with OAL, powder, charger-weight, velocity/barrel-length and pressure but will use data missing the pressure data. I ignore data without velocity/barrel-length data. With a bunch of good data I head to Quickloads and start playing. Looking for powder chargers that fill up the case most of the way, keep pressures within SAAMI/CIP MAP and appear to burn all or nearly all the propellant before the bullet exits the barrel. Once I have picked out two or three potential propellants and have charge weights that should meet my desired velocity I load up a batch of loads with incrementally increase powder charges working up to my desired velocity. I don't over do this step, usually just two or three incrementally increasing charges is all I need. Take these test loads to the range and chrono the loads and try to shoot good groups. With this data I can go back to Quickloads tweak the programs parameters to match the performance of the load to my particular firearm. From there I can tweak the load itself to adjust velocity as needed to achieve the velocity or accuracy I am looking for. I do this for all loads I work up revolver or otherwise with the caveat that everything I am loading is straight wall cartridges, nothing bottle necked. 38 S&W to 450 Bushmaster all straight wall.
 
I will take about 50 rounds, maybe more, of each load and just bang away, off hand, at my 12" gong targets. I will shoot enough to determine to my satisfaction, that the load will make a decent composite group at 25 yards.


Some nice groups which give me confidence in the grouping capability of the load:

BeGFkIp.jpg


I think this is a 50 round group at 25 yards

A7OsZux.jpg


nk0yfdX.jpg

After wringing loads out at 25 yards, I will move the gong target out to 50 yards. I have had loads that shot OK at 25 yards, but ran out of gas at 50 yards. If the load stays on a 12" gong at 50 yards, I am happy with it. The load in the picture below is moving about 1000 fps. This is a great load for a 44 Special in a Ruger Blackhawk, too hot for Charter Arms. Might be too hot for a Colt SAA. A bit stiff for a S&W N frame , (mainly recoil) I have shot thousands of it in N frames, have not seen any damage to an N frame, it is real accurate, all the way out to 50 yards. I can also recommend a 240 L with 6.5 grs Unique, any case, any primer. That will go about 850 fps.

yrNep9r.jpg


Here is your standard of achievement: revolver shooter, shot off hand, at 50 yards.Trooper Jim Collins was one of the best handgun shooters ever,

hEsAmoE.jpg

fQPDlHb.jpg


I love data, so I will do my best to drag my chronograph out and measure the velocity of my loads. I hope that I can correlate velocity with accuracy, but probably, like everyone else, I see patterns where they don't exist! I am of the opinion that the 44 Special does not do well, with 240 grain bullets, below 700 fps. My most accurate loads are 750 fps or above. In a stout 44 Special, like a Ruger Blackhawk, you can push them up to 1000 fps, but in a N frame Smith, I would stay 850 fps or so.

S&W M624 6.5" 44 Special

240 LSWC 5.0 grs Bullseye Lot 6/20/05 Mixed Brass WLP
22-Dec-07 T = 55 °F

Ave Vel = 800
Std Dev = 14
ES = 61
High = 823
Low = 762
N = 16
accurate, mild recoil


240 LSWC 6.25 grs Unique lot UN387(6-21-1993) Midway cases WSP
22-Dec-07 T = 55 °F

Ave Vel = 831
Std Dev = 33
ES = 108
High = 868
Low = 761
N = 18

Mild, very accurate.

240 LSWC 9.0 grs AA#5 Lot 35 590 Mixed Brass WLP
22-Dec-07 T = 55 °F

Ave Vel = 879
Std Dev = 30
ES = 118
High = 926
Low = 808
N = 26
Accurate, light leading

yUR0Ati.jpg
 
Slamfire said:
I will shoot enough to determine to my satisfaction, that the load will make a decent composite group at 25 yards.
Click to expand...
I do the basically same thing with loads that shoot well at 7 yards through the chrono at 5 yards. I usually shoot a gong at 30 to 40 yards depending on the gun. You can tell if it is a good one just by shooting a bunch of them.
 
With lead bullets the first thing I do is slug the bore and AII the throats of the cylinder. If things are within spec then I load up some test loads per the simpler steps above with a bullet that fits. If the throats are too small (often some are) then the throats need to be opened up or just plan on using jacketed bullets and no lead/plated.
 
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First I decide what I want the round to accomplish. Is it a light target load, a magnum hunting load or something in between. Then I pick a few different bullets that I think will work the application and a few powders that will give the anticipated velocity. Then make up a bunch of ladder loads with each bullet and powder and hit the range.

The bullet/powder combo that give the best groups using a bullet consistant with the intended application and achieving a velocity that is in keeping with the pre-determined job I wish for the load gets further tweeking until I get what I thinks is the best shooting most accurate load then go with that. I have 3 loads for most of my revolvers, depends on what I'm going to be shooting that day and I generally don't shoot magnum loads or hunt with my revolvers. If I did I would have 4 or 5 loads for each. The beauty of the revolver is you load for best accuracy and don't care about having enough blow back energy to work the slide.
 
I load a variety of different powder charges and powders in lots of 6, if a six shooter. I shoot on sandbags at 7 yards. This will easily eliminate numerous of the test batches and give me fewer to further work with. I will usually end up with 2 or 3 close contenders that I will shoot in more depth to make sure I can declare a sure winner. I do this for plinking rounds and again for more serious business rounds. For me it is not usually a 1 day process. It is usually a fun process though as you already know. Except for that .280 you tried to work up a load for that time......
 
Re-read Post #8 from Frogo207. No sense in working up loads if the chamber throats are too small. To test loads I shoot from sand bags off the bench with the barrel also on some kind of rest, or "double-supported" benchrest position to eliminate most human-induced movement. I also will load "ladder loads" from start load to near-maximum in 0.2 increments. I load 10 of each charge weight marking them with colored magic markers (for when I drop them and they get mixed up) I shoot 5 of each from either 50 feet or 75 feet and properly proportioned targets. (NRA 50 foot and 25 yard pistol targets) The correct target for the distance is important as the target is one part of the precise and repeatable sight picture.

After I have shot 5 each of each charge weight, I let the gun cool and re-shoot the ladder test again for confirmation. I do this for each different bullet and powder choice, keeping notes of what was really good and what not to repeat. Your shooting technique needs to be good and your grip should be consistent if you are not using a "Ransom-rest" platform.

I am a big fan of Ruger .44 mag revolvers. I have never found any of mine that shoot all that well using .44 Special brass. The best target accuracy in my Rugers comes only when I use .44 mag cases. I often load .44 Special/.45 Colt level cast bullet loads for target shooting and occasional small game. I save the full-house loads for serious shooting like our "piney-woods rooters." Both of my Ruger SBH revolvers are as accurate as a rifle out to 100 yards.
 
Find load data from as many sources as possible. Sometimes they vary from one another, but I will take all the data into consideration to figure out the min-max loads I will try. I will load up 5 or 6 rounds (a cylinder full) of each charge, and generally 5 charge levels, so anywhere from 25-30 rounds total.

I usually test my handgun rounds at 10 yards, and I like to chrono all my loads. I shoot from a rest, as I am trying to remove myself from the equation as much as possible. I have a revolver with a scope that I will test at 25 or 50 yards, but everything else is 10 yards initially. I try to have an idea what the max velocity should be, which is sometimes hard to determine since revolver load data can have just about any barrel length. If I exceed what I think is a safe velocity (over published data) or I see pressure signs, I will not shoot any more steps in my test loads. Pressure signs can be difficult in some cases, as some revolver rounds are low pressure, such as 44spl or 38spl.

For revolver rounds, especially when trying a powder that does not come close to filling the empty space, I will do a "powder forward" test. For 3 rounds, I will hold the gun barrel down and slowly raise the barrel level with the target before firing. Then for the last rounds I will start with the barrel pointed up and slowly lower the barrel to target before firing. This test will tell me if a given powder is position sensitive. I've seen one powder that was 300fps difference between powder forward/rear. If the powder I am using fills the case close to the base of the bullet, I generally don't bother with this additional step, it is mainly for faster burning powders that have a low case fill.
 
With cartridges already loaded, I would shoot a groups both rested and off-hand. Take notes about both group size and felt recoil. OP didn't let us in on what the loads were (ie- full power, midrange, lead plinkers, etc.) With full power 44mags, just shooting a few groups can significantly wear a person down, so just watch if the groups get bigger as the testing went on - it might be the shooter's jitters. Remember that it's a revolver - there are effectively as many "chambers" as cartridges. I've seen where one chamber might shoot slightly differently. Should that be the case, don't let one flyer determine the smallest group. Look for a balance between accuracy, consistency, and perceived recoil - do that and you can't hardly go wrong within published data limits.
 
I like to read three or four load data books to get ideas about handgun loads before I start rolling a batch. Most will have a solid range of charge weights that are consistent from book to book with my chosen powder and bullet weight/style, so blind experimentation with my (sadly) limited time is minimal.

My usual calibers are .38,.357,.44spl.44 mag and .45 Colt, and powders are Unique, Bullseye and HP-38, so load data abounds!
 
cougar1717 said:
With cartridges already loaded, I would shoot a groups both rested and off-hand. Take notes about both group size and felt recoil. OP didn't let us in on what the loads were (ie- full power, midrange, lead plinkers, etc.) With full power 44mags, just shooting a few groups can significantly wear a person down, so just watch if the groups get bigger as the testing went on - it might be the shooter's jitters.
Click to expand...

I have loaded a range of power levels.
I have standard by the book .44 Specials, I have some of the Skeeter and Keith loads for .44 Special, there are some low level magnums, and some full throttle magnum loads with IMR 4227 and H110.

I do plan to test them in order from least powerful to most, for the reasons you stated.
 
Varminterror said:
Ruger 44mag revolver? If yes, THIS DATA IS OVER PUBLISHED MAXIMUMS AND NOT FOUND IN ANY MANUAL, LOAD AT YOUR OWN RISK: 300grn XTP over 22.0grn H110/W296, seated in the second cannelure. If it doesn't shoot well, send it back.

Any other 44mag revolver in the world? If yes, 23.5grn H110/W296 under 240grn XTP seated to the cannelure. If it doesn't shoot well, send it back.
/QUOTE]
Sounds like my brother's logic with 44 mag.
Pour on the h110 it'll work or it won't. 300s in a 4 5/8s barrel can become brutal.
I love the amazing fireball h110 makes.
Click to expand...
 
Bfh_auto said:
300s in a 4 5/8s barrel can become brutal.
Click to expand...

It’s all relative. With a well-fit grip, I don’t mind the 300’s in any length 44mag, from 2” scandium 329 Night Guard, to 2 1/2” Alaskans or 2.75” Kodak backpackers, 3”, 4 5/8”, and all points longer... my 3” Vaqueros are birdies, no less.

Seated cylinder length, the load I listed above is lower pressure than a standard max load for that bullet. More powder, more power, but more cylinder friendly.
 
Arkansas Paul said:
For the first time in a while I will be going out and doing some shooting next week. I'm wondering what you guys' routine was when you get a new six gun and are testing loads for the first time?

I have loaded up several different loads (25 of each) for the .44 special and will be hitting the loading bench again tomorrow afternoon to load a few different .44 magnum loads.


So when you are testing loads, what do you do?
A few five or six shot groups from a rested position?

What range to you test them at at first? (This is a 4.62" revolver with open sights)

Would just like to know how you more experienced guys do it. Maybe I'll learn something that I will incorporate into my own routine.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Sounds like your going to have some fun, I love 44 specials.
My range is behind my house & another in the back field.
So I don't load a lot of ammo for testing, usually 12 of each powder load, If you can shoot good
that will tell you all you need to know. But if you have to travel to a range I see why you would
load more.
I shoot the revolver a few times with proven or similar loads I'm going to be shooting, just to dirty it, but yours
is new so you probably need to run 50 factory rounds thru it first in case the revolver fails. Brass not lead of course.
Then I set up the shooting bench & shoot the first 6 on sandbags at 12 yards which is my preferred range.
I grip the revolver firm but not hard enough to restrict the barrel jump, I let it ride up for a natural recoil.
Sandbags will tell you how good the revolver will shoot the load without your mistakes.
Then --IF-- the load seems tight enough I shoot the last 6 with a 2 handed grip standing at 12 yards. If the
load doesn't do very good off sandbags we shoot fun stuff with them when we are thru.
The 2 groups should be close to the same since you can shoot good enough, I have never had a good sandbag
group disappoint me when it comes to standing & shooting unless I just have an off day.
I don't mix testing with practice or combat practice, in fact I don't run the revolver hot until I am doing
real practice.
When I am testing loads it is a serious time consuming effort, but exciting, and your question is about
testing loads anyhow not running & gunning & all that stuff.
Here is one thing to consider at 12 yards, the group represents a cone not a funnel. A cone or funnel can
be reversed & represent the other. That being said my group must be the tightest it can be in order to
allow the expansion of the group farther out so I don't settle for 2" groups.
So many times we think the reverse is true but of course it isn't. If we grouped as in a funnel group it would tighten
as the distance stretched out, & you already know this I'm sure.
 
Varminterror said:
It’s all relative. With a well-fit grip, I don’t mind the 300’s in any length 44mag, from 2” scandium 329 Night Guard, to 2 1/2” Alaskans or 2.75” Kodak backpackers, 3”, 4 5/8”, and all points longer... my 3” Vaqueros are birdies, no less.

Seated cylinder length, the load I listed above is lower pressure than a standard max load for that bullet. More powder, more power, but more cylinder friendly.
Click to expand...
For me the super Blackhawks try scraping my knuckle with full power 300s. It usually takes about 2-3 cylinders, but it falls into your well fit grip statement.
 
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