What Magnum Rifle?

[Covelo-NdN]

Hi Fourm,

I'm wanting to purchase a magnum caliber hunting rifle this 2015 year. The rifle will be a primary deer, pig whatever rifle with the hopes of drawing a elk tag someday. And this is where I'm torn. I own a new 270 Winchester Featherweight that I love-- I can't help but keep reading articles that say the 270 win. may not be adequate for say a elk.

I don't want to draw a once in a lifetime tag only to not pack enough gun. So my though is this ill by a 270 wsm. I load for my 270 so I already have .277 bullets.
And the gun will probably be a Winchester model 70.

Thoughts please

 

[browningguy]

How about a .270 WSM in a Winchester Model 70?

Sounds like you have your mind made up, and nothing really wrong with either choice.

But a .270 with good bullets (Barnes or Partitions) really is enough gun for Elk.

 

[jmr40]

Your 270 is more than adequate for elk at ranges up to at least 400 yards. A 270 WSM, 7mm magnum, or any other magnum round will give you SLIGHTLY flatter trajectory and a tiny bit of more power at extreme range. Inside of 400 yards it won't matter at all. If you are good enough to hit an elk at 500-600 yards then it might be worth it.

You would probably want to use a different bullet for elk or larger game, but even that isn't set in stone.

Now if you just want another rifle, then that is different. You don't need one.

 

[rcmodel]

I can't help but keep reading articles that say the 270 win. may not be adequate for say a elk.

You might be reading the wrong comic books!

For instance, the 30-40 Krag certainly cannot be considered a Magellam.
http://www.cbchamber.com/world-record-elk--story.html

And most riflemen will be far better shots with a .270 or 30-06 then with a big Magnum.

You shoot an elk in the boiler room with a .270 or 30-06 using proper controlled expansion hunting bullets?

It will fall down and die.

Spend your money on practice ammo for your .270 before elk season.
Then be confident you can kill one with it if you can get within 400 yards of it.

rc

 

[witchhunter]

If you already have a 270 Winchester, a 270 WSM will not make a lot of difference except you will lose magazine capacity. The fat ones take up more room.....Read some Jack O'Connor for 270 capabilities. Listen to RC, practice and become confident. But, if you want a new rifle, don't let us talk you out of it.

 

[earlthegoat2]

But, if you want a new rifle, don't let us talk you out of it.

Yep, and don't let yourself talk you into a 270 WSM.

A 300 WM would be a logical next step up and is a more versatile cartridge.

 

[dvdcrr]

I own a 270 wsm and reload for it. I use it for deer hunting, it has been 100% reliable for me. My load is 130 gr. Sierra bullet, powder is RL 19. My rifle is a Kimber classic, warne mounts, leupold prw rings. Vari X 3 3.5-10x40 scope. The kimber is factory glass bed, with a 1" soft pad, straight comb, 24" blued barrel and adjustable excellent trigger. Modern 3 position wing safety that allows loading and unloading. Accuracy is sub moa. This rifle drops deer right now at 50 yards as well as 350. I have a very nice 257 weatherby mag too and if I had to choose just one it would be the 270WSM. As far as versatility, you can load 85 gr at a sizzling velocity up to 150 Barnes TSX at 3100 fps. This has a high sectional density, and excellent penetration on any game.

 

[rcmodel]

IMO: If a .270 is too small for you, the next logical step up is a .338 WinMag.

All the recoil most shooters can master for long range killing power.

And all the recoil most shooters will ever be able to master for long range hunting accuracy.

Which is 100% more important then power.

rc

 

[oneounceload]

Your 270, coupled with the right bullet will be more than adequate

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

maybe a magnum you can shoot, I got friends that brag about their magnums and cant hit anything cause they are flinching when they "pull" the trigger. why not master a common sense rifle like a .308 that is good out to 600 yards if you know what you are doing....some people watch tv and read too many shooting magazines and believe they just gotta have a magnum....hell back in the 60s the model 94 30-30 was the way to go, then came these magnums....let your ego out the back door and shoot a rifle you can actually handle.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

A .270 Win is perfectly adequate for Elk. I'd select a 140 gr or even 150 gr bullet and I prefer Barnes TTSX, Nosler AccuBond, Sierra GameKing or Hornady GMX bullets. As long as you know the trajectory of your chosen round and your capabilities from a decent field position, you're good to go.

Now I have a .375 H&H Magnum that I have taken to Alaska, a 7mm RM that I like for Speed Goats and I just got a .300 WSM that I bought because I loved the rifle and .300 WSM was what I found NIB for $500 under retail. I can't recommend any of these over a standard caliber for Elk, deer or Black Bear.

The key to a successful hunting shot is knowing your distance (use a rangefinder) and knowing the ballistics of your load (you need to know the bullet weight, the muzzle velocity, the ballistic coefficient and have a ballistics program). Alternatively, you can sight your .270 Win 2" high at 100 yards and not screw around with a shot longer than 300 yards. A magnum caliber will not kill anything deader than a good shot to the vitals with a useful non-magnum caliber. On the other hand, if you don't have the skills, you'll develop a helluva flinch with a .338 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer that you miss with.

Now I've only been doing this hunting stuff for the last 50 years so I'm working on limited experience, but still...

Harry

 

[twofifty]

The 270Win you already have and love is a very credible elk rifle.

Just go out and shoot it lots at various ranges so you can learn how to
make best use of it's MPBR. Become proficient by spending your money on shooting it and on hunting trips.

 

[joneb]

Check out the 338-06 and 35 Whelen. IMO the 270 Win. is enough and the 30-06 Springfield should be just fine at reasonable distances. It comes down to the skill of the hunter.

 

[Robert]

I love my M70 Safari Express in 375H&H. Contrary to what the internet says, the 375 will not vaporize meat. In fact 375 does less meat damage than the modern 7mm and 30 caliber magnums. If you hand load you can create some powder puff range loads all the way up to safari grade solids.

If you can shoot a 12ga with heavy field loads then you can shoot a 375. The recoil is easily managed and not severe at all. He round is inherently accurate across a wide range of bullet weights meaning there is less poi shift across the range.

My rifle weighs 9lbs with optics, is well balanced and is a breeze to carry all day in the Colorado mountains.

 

[OYE]

I don't want to draw a once in a lifetime tag only to not pack enough gun.

Why should it be once in a lifetime. Take the money you would spend on the new rifle, scope, etc... and buy an out of state tag and license somewhere that you don't have to put in for a draw. You'll never regret it. OYE

 

[Lloyd Smale]

get yourself a 7 rem mag. 20 years from now youll still be able to get ammo and brass. Even now finding 270wsm ammo and brass is tough and expensive when you do. 7 rem mag ammo is everywhere and in a much wider selection of loads and much cheaper to boot.

 

[jmr40]

Just for reference.

Somewhere around 1500 ft lbs of energy is considered to be necessary to put down elk. Your 270 loaded with 150 gr Accubonds @2900 fps will still have over 1600 ft lbs at 400 yards. It drops to 1490 at 450. You have less than 20 ft lbs recoil, probably closer to 15

A 270 WSM loaded with the same bullets will only give you 100 fps more speed and increase the effective range by only 50 yards. Simply not enough of an advantage to be worth the effort. Recoil right around 20 ft lbs.

A 30-06 loaded with 200 gr Accubonds @ 2700 fps will have almost 1800 ft lbs @ 500 yards. Recoil will be around 20-22 ft lbs

A 308 with the same bullets will be just under the 1500 ft lb threshold at 500 yards. Recoil just under 20 ft lbs

One of the various 300 magnums will still have around 2000-2100 ft lbs of enegy at 500 yards and won't fall below 1500 ft lbs until around 750 yards. Around 27-30 ft lbs recoil

A 338 magnum loaded with 225 gr bullets offers no advantage over a 300 mag loaded with more aerodynamic 200 gr 30 caliber bullets. Long range numbers are almost exactly the same. Around 35 ft lbs recoil.

Very few people have the skills to take 500+ yard shots and most animals are killed closer to 200 yards. Often a lot less. If someone just wants a bigger rifle I'd go with one of the magnums in 30 caliber. But unless you plan on really long range shooting the rifle you have is more than adequate. It will weigh less, cost less to shoot, and have a lot less recoil. The money you save on a new rifle and optics will buy 2 or 3 out of state elk tags in Colorado.

The lighter weight of your current rifle alone is far more valuable to me at 10,000' than the extra range of a heavier magnum rifle. If you ever go you'll be grateful for every ounce you aren't carrying.

 

[Captcurt]

JMR 40 is close to my way of thinking. With the proper bullet a 270 will take the biggest elk around provided that it is not in another time zone. A 270WSM is not going to gain you much. If a magnum is a must, I would go for a 300. You can pick the brand. To tell the truth, a 30-06 would suite me just fine.

 

[MCMXI]

You shoot an elk in the boiler room with a .270 or 30-06 using proper controlled expansion hunting bullets?

It will fall down and die.

I'm in the camp that considers the .270 Win to be marginal for elk, particularly up here in Montana. I use a .375 H&H Mag that I shoot very well (1/2" @ 100 yards) for the simple reason that the animal needs to drop within 10' of where it was shot. Up here, 50 yards can be the difference of 1 hour to get the elk in the back of the truck and heading home compared to 8 hours, or worse, not being able to recover the beast at all. I work with a bunch of hardcore and experienced elk hunters and none of them use .270 Win. Last year one of them put three rounds of .300 Win Mag in the chest from 300 yards and the elk managed to walk 50 yards and almost fell off a ridge and down into a coolie. His brother was carrying a .308 Win that day but has now switched back to his 300 WSM after that experience. This year one of the guys put seven rounds of .280 AI in the chest of a nice bull elk at 400 yards. He thought he'd missed the first two shots because the elk didn't even flinch. When it finally started to move it took five more shots during which time it travelled over 200 yards and took more than 8 hours to recover.

And now more crap that people are not able to shoot magnums well. Don't assume that your lack of ability is any indication of what others are capable of. Regardless of what you shoot, practice is a good thing. A practiced shooter with a .375 H&H Mag will be more effective than one with a .270 Win when hunting elk. If you hunt in flat, open areas then who cares, but up here in MT you want to put it down asap.

 

[twofifty]

re: projecting limitations

As a general rule I don't shoot magnums very well and therefore do not have a great deal of confidence using them. This is due to my body type plus whatever injuries I've accumulated over the years. Magnums put a hurt on me.

Without projecting the above personal limitations onto others, I have noticed that many guys have trouble hitting consistently well with their big magnums, say 300WM and up. It is hard to hit what you're shooting at if you close your eyes as you're taking the shot.

I spend a fair bit of time year-round shooting with a bunch of hunters who for the most part are quite proficient at position shooting. The ones who shoot the most and who get the best results at the range or in the field tend to shoot standard loads, not magnums. The ones who show up a couple weeks before opening day tend to not shoot their magnums very well.

These are observations, not projections. Of course, there are exceptionally gifted human beings out there who shoot big magnums as reliably as if they were shooting their 243.

 

[Slamfire]

Instead, why not a nice 35 Whelen?

With heavy bullets the thing will kick, if kick is what you want, but the 35 Whelen will knock flat everything you want to hunt, without high pressures and a huge muzzle blast.

The cartridge feeds very nicely through any standard action. You can fit five rounds in standard 30-06 actions. Most magnums are three in the chamber. There is no belt on a 35Whelen. Belted magnums are a pain to resize, take a look at Extending case life http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar46.htm. The shoulder to base distance is not standardized in belted magnums. Follow the typical "size to the shell holder and add a quarter turn" and you will push the shoulder so far back that you will have case head separation in a couple of firings. For the two belted magnums I have, a 375 H&H and a 300 H&H, I had to buy the special Sinclair sizing gage, and brass sized for these rifles are not to be used in any other rifle of the same caliber, because the shoulder to base distance will be wrong.

I will say, the 300 H&H shot very well and fed very well. Early belted magnums have plenty of case taper and they steer very well. Modern belted magnums are straight, don't feed well. Often you see these pyramidal three round magazines for these cartridges. The top round has to be centered with the bore or the case will misfeed. The tradeoff is, one less round in the magazine.

Another problem I encountered in my 375 H&H was rim lock. The top round, the belt stopped on the rim on the next round. The round would not feed. I had to pull the bolt back, push on the stack with my thumb, to clear the jam. If the situation had been the typical elephant charging event that gunwriters love to spin, Mr Elephant would have stomped me into a mass of red jelly.

Modern magnums achieve their performance through high pressures. I don't like high pressures as dancing on a razor's edge will get you cut. I don't want sticking extraction, blown primers, dished firing pin tips, etc. High pressures cause more functional problems than whatever performance problems they cure.

So, I think the 35 Whelen will do everything you want and without encountering any of the problems that come with magnum cartridges.

 

[ricebasher302]

If you're concerned about dropping a bull elk where it stands, as 1858 explained, the ony reliable way to do that is to shoot it in the shoulder (aside from the head/neck/spine shot). In that instance, a heavier, sturdier bullet is a safer bet for big bones. However, if you shoot behind the shoulder like I prefer to, your .270 with a quality bullet is as effective as anything. Elk are big critters and possess some degree of determination it seems. They're no sissies to be sure, but certainly not invincible.

 

[Big7]

My pack is a .338 Win. Mag. and carry a Big7 Rem. Mag.

Not that I'll be needing a back up cause both are Rugers.

Also, depends where you are going on the dream trip.

Most outfitters, particularly where there are Grizzly won't
even take you unless you sport a MINIMUM .338.

 

[Crosser]

x2....most logical...

 

[twofifty]

Alaska F&G recommendations

From the Alaska dept. of Fish & Game website:

"If you presently own a rifle chambered for the .270 Winchester, 7mm-08, .308 Winchester or .30-06 and can place all of your shots in an 8-inch circle out to 200 yards from a sitting or kneeling position you can be a successful Alaska hunter. To be as effective as possible, these cartridges should be loaded with premium quality bullets that are designed to pass completely through a large game animal, if hit in the heart-lung area.

Big Magnums Not Needed

The rifle you bring hunting should be one with which you are comfortable. Because of the presence of brown and grizzly bears, many hunters have been convinced that a .300, .338, .375, or .416 magnum is needed for personal protection and to take large Alaska game. This is simply not true. The recoil and noise of these large cartridges is unpleasant at best and plainly painful to many shooters. It is very difficult to concentrate on shot placement when your brain and body remembers the unpleasant recoil and noise which occurs when you pull the trigger on one of the big magnums.

The two most common complaints of professional Alaska guides are hunters who are not in good physical condition and hunters who cannot accurately shoot their rifles. Because these hunters do not practice enough they cannot shoot accurately enough. They miss their best chance at taking their dream animal or worse yet, they wound and lose an animal. Most experienced guides prefer that a hunter come to camp with a .270 or .30-06 rifle they can shoot well rather than a shiny new magnum that has been fired just enough to get sighted-in. If you are going to hunt brown bear on the Alaska Peninsula or Kodiak Island, a .30-06 loaded with 200- or 220-grain Nosler® or similar premium bullet will do the job with good shot placement. Only consider using a .300, .338 or larger magnum if you can shoot it as well as you can the .30-06."