What makes a bullet Kick hard????

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I have a .44 mag Taurus Raging Bull with an 8 3/8" barrel.

I went shooting for the first time with this gun last night.

I had some 240 gr. Winchester (non hollow point) rounds and some 180 gr. Blazer hollow points with Alum. casing I bought from the gun range.

The Winchester rounds were SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than the Blazer rounds.

Why was this?

Was it the:

240gr. to 180 grain Difference?
Casing Material Difference?
Brand Name Difference?
Hollow Point vs. Non Hollow Point?
Figment of my imagination?

I love shooting powerful bullets from this thing on occasion, what spec's do I need to look at on a bullet that will lead me to the most powerful result? Does "larger the gr. bullet = harder the bullet kicks?" The higher the "FPS/ ft. lbs" rating, the harder it kicks? Help!

Thanks!
 
Newtons law of motion is obeyed here. The heavier the bullet, faster the bullet, the more recoil. It is soaked up by the weight of the gun or you, normally both. Design of the grip also plays a part in felt recoil. If it all came straight back at you, it would be painful. But the gun recoils up, rides back into your hand, etc. to dissipate some of the energy. Some of the real handgunners will be along to give you a real lesson on all the factors and how to minimize felt recoil.
 
newton dropped the ball on the 154gr JHPs in x39.

They kick far less than any of the other rounds I've fired through my AK. (however negligible the recoil actually is)
 
Naw. Newton rules. The perceived recoil is less but the total recoil is still there. It is the equivalent of a slow push for a longer time vs. a sudden slam for a very short time.
 
Weight

...

Yep, weight is the key: more weight, more knockdown power and, in most cases, more recoil, but, travels slower, and drops sooner, than a lighter bullet that goes faster, and straighter, longer.

But, heavier bullets that hit something, take longer to slow down, as go thru doors, thru car doors, glass, thru corner walls, to get to the BG hiding behind something.

A lighter bullet, even though going faster, stops sooner, as it does not have the weight/inertia, to keep going (thru an object) as long, or far, as a heavier bullet's weight and inertia, carrying it thru objects, more/further.

Kinda like driving a Tank at 40mph and hitting a wall, and going thru it, and on, for a bit vs:

a Hmmv, going 70mph hitting the same wall and stopping much sooner after the impact.


LS
 
Here is a Recoil Calculator on the Handloads.com website. You do need to know velocities but you can get that off the manufacturers websites.

Recoil is mass of bullet x velocity of bullet = mass of gun x recoil velocity. You need to use the same units of mass so the above calculator does that figuring for you.
 
Remember from high school physics: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

The basic formula for force (momentum) is mass * velocity. So:

mass of bullet * velocity of bullet = mass of gun * velocity of gun = force.

Other factors go into perceived recoil such as the size/shape of the gun, surface area, slow burning vs. fast burning powder, etc, but that basic principle above holds true. If you increase the weight of the bullet (while keeping velocity constant) or increase the velocity of the bullet (while keeping weight constant) or increase both at the same time, the force of recoil will increase.
 
Force = Mass * Acceleration

And, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Newton was a rather smart fellow.
 
Force the bullet has = 1/2Mass x Velocity^2

and since every action has an equal and opposite reaction, that force is also imparted on the gun(in the opposite direction, of course). However since the gun has more mass, and

force / mass= acceleration

The gun won't accelerate nearly as much as the bullet. Perceived recoil also has to do with the material, and the surface area of the material contacting you. If you have a rubber grip, the force is spread out over a little more time, making it more bearable. This is kind of like falling on a gym mat vs missing and hitting the wood. You can also spread it out over a larger area by using a different grip, using an ak47 as an example, this is why an under folder will leave you with a sore shoulder more so than a full stock will.

To reduce recoil you need to use loads that have lower ft/lbs(energy) ratings. Finding a new grip may also make recoil more bearable, and so will getting a heavier gun.

Gotta love Newtonian physics.
 
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Also, if the batch of Winchester 240gr .44s I chronoed are any indication, I suspect they are quite a bit on the hot side. (This is the stuff in the white box with a deer head on the end, right?)

The book says 1180 fps with that 240, out of a 4" barrel I believe. My 6" 629 and my hand told me they were hotter than that. My chrony confirmed what that stinging sensation was coming from. 1400 fps average for 6 rounds! That is SMOKIN'!!! :what: Your longer barrel will only exacerbate this "problem".

The Blazers are quite likely a milder load. Probably faster, but with the lighter bullet they don't seem as bad.
 
Kinetic energy is equal to 1/2*M*V^2. Momentum is equal to M*V.

It is normal to use kinetic energy to express the "striking power" of the bullet and momentum to calculate recoil forces. Generally speaking the rearward momentum of the gun will equal the forward momentum of the bullet. You can see right away that if the gun had the same mass as the bullet, the shooter would be in deep doo-doo.:what:

Momemtum increases directly with both the mass and the velocity of the bullet. So heavier, faster bullets will produce more actual recoil -- all other things being equal. On the other hand, a heavier gun will move back more slowly in recoil and have less recoil force -- again, all other things being equal.
 
Another take on the very-fine question:

The increase from 180 to 240 grains of bullet, is a 33 percent increase in weight.

Now, assuming that the pressure of the two different cartridges is the same (which may not be exactly true) then the velocity of the 240 grain bullet will be less than the velocity of the 180 grain bullet.

But, will the 240 bullet's velocity be 33 percent less? I don't think so (for no reasons I can explain), and therefore the heavier bullet will have a greater "yowzer" factor. Meaning more fun to shoot!

Bart Noir
 
If we could attach guns to some sort of force plate, we could see that the momentum of recoil changes over time.

Plotting the Y axis as the force and the X axis as time, total recoil impulse would be the derivative under the curve so plotted.

A heavier gun would have a shorter curve, as more of the force got "soaked up" by the mass of the gun.

A gun with some sort of recoil compensation would have a longer curve wherein the derivative volume of the total recoil would be the same, but the peak force would be lower, and thus less painful to the shooter. The springy things on the back of shotgun shot cups accomplish the same thing; total recoil impulse stays the same, but the force curve is less abrupt.

A gun with a muzzle break or suppressor, which actually produces some degree of counterthrust will also lower the curve.

Those would be the purely physical factors of recoil for a given load.

The total momentum of individual loads could easily be calculated, but figuring out the peak force of each one would probably involve computer modeling or very, very painful physics since it would involve powder burn rates and flamefront propogation and stuff like that. As a rule of thumb, I think it's safe to assume that faster burning powders produce more felt recoil, although how much needs to be tested.

Finally, the shape of the gun, the weight distribution of the gun, and your shooting technique will all affect felt recoil.
 
Another take on the very-fine question:

The increase from 180 to 240 grains of bullet, is a 33 percent increase in weight.

Now, assuming that the pressure of the two different cartridges is the same (which may not be exactly true) then the velocity of the 240 grain bullet will be less than the velocity of the 180 grain bullet.

But, will the 240 bullet's velocity be 33 percent less? I don't think so (for no reasons I can explain), and therefore the heavier bullet will have a greater "yowzer" factor. Meaning more fun to shoot!
Click to expand...

Let's check, says he, whipping out his Hodgdon's manual:

Cartrige: 45 Colt
185 grain bullet, 1104 fps 15,500 CUP
240-250 grain bullet, 768 fps 15,600 CUP

The lighter bullet has about 44% more velocity

Cartrige: 44 Magnum
180 grain bullet, 1632 fps 30,200 CUP *
240 grain bullet, 1398 fps 33,900 CUP

The lighter bullet has about 17% more velocity

* Powder is IMR 4227, which gives the highest listed velocity with the 180 grain bullet.

Cartrige: 44 Magnum
180 grain bullet, 1566 fps 36,200 CUP **
240 grain bullet, 1328 fps 38,900 CUP

The lighter bullet has about 18% more velocity

** Powder is 800-X, which gives greater velocity with the heavier bullet.
 
Never experienced a kick by a bullet.......

The gun recoils from being fired, which is simply physics.....chris3
 
Bullets don't kick at all.They're just along for the ride. It's the cartridge, bullet, primer, powder and gun that kicks.
 
Simple Physics. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Increase either mass or velocity and you will increase recoil.
Click to expand...
Thats why only in the movies the BG gets blown off his feet.
If the bullet could do this the shooter would feel the opposite engery (being blown off his feet) minus the bullet impact as in the ripping of flesh.
BB
 
Vern, thanks for injecting some facts.

As it happens, just yesterday I shot 230 gr. Schofield, 200 gr. .45 Colt, 300 gr. .45 (Buffalo Bore) Colt out of the same gun. The heavier .45 Colt rounds kicked more and the Schofield kicked least. And I can't tell you the velocities so this observation means little, except that I had fun :D

Then I fired 3 rounds of .454 Casull out of that Ruger Alaskan. That was enough and I am proud that the second and third shots almost touched the first. No flinch here, nope. But it was coming, that gun truly kicks!

Bart Noir
Whose brother fired 6 Casull rounds and then had to quit shooting with that hand.
 
Perceived recoil can be dramatically effected by gun design, grips and so on. I love the .45 Colt, but I'm a wuss when it comes to recoil -- especially when the trigger guard whaps my middle finger. I have a set of big, overmoulded grips on my Ruger Blackhawk that tames recoil like nobody's business.
 
"...Newton was a rather smart fellow..." Especially for a guy who's famous for getting hit on the head with an apple.
 
Darn right about Newton, now im starting to think of weight in newtons...
I always thought the 154gr x39 kicked worse.
So what is that about Black powder kicking worse than smokeless?
 
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