What no to do with a Winchester 1873 Rifle

[eastbank]

to each his own. . there will always be a market for both. eastbank.

 

[hq]

the key word here is properly, and they cost money to have done right

Precisely. Or, providing that you have experience, skills and a lot of patience, do it yourself. A proper polish job for royal blue, hard chrome, nitrides etc. takes approximately 3-5 full evenings per gun with an array of specialized hand and power tools. Very few of even experienced gunsmiths can do it properly and those who do, can easily charge four figures for it. It's an artform and only 1-5% of it involves power buffing wheel of any kind.

 

[shafter]

Its a shame to ruin a historical rifle, but now that the value is ruined I'd be happy to take it out and use it hard.

 

[tark]

High conditioned, collectible guns of any kind should not be touched, in my opinion. Depending on rarity, some guns should NEVER be re-finished or modified in any way. Nobody in his right mind would try to re-blue a Walker Colt, or replace parts on an original surviving gas trap Garand.

Having said that, a collectible gun like the one in question here, being in average or lower condition, and fairly common ( Winchester made over 730,000 over a 50 year production run ) presents some options.

You can have it professionally restored, which may cost more than it is worth, even after restoration. This leaves you with a brand new looking gun, which you can shoot all you want without lowering its value by much, because it is no longer original.

You can clean it up yourself or have someone do it for you. This can improve its looks, but destroy whatever collectors value it had left. Which wasn't a lot to begin with. Then you enjoy it and shoot the snot out of it.

You can leave it alone.

Or you can commit an act of mayhem by murdering it like somebody did with the OPs rifle. About all that is left to do at this point is what the OP did. At least is no longer looks like a crime against humanity.

Good job in dealing with a bad situation, Doug.

 

[hq]

The whole absurdity of loss of value due to restoration has baffled me for quite a long time. Then again, even money is worth anything only because a sufficient number of people have agreed upon it once FIAT replaced gold standard. Somehow the restored firearm collector market has never spawned, unlike with cars where a professionally restored rarity fetches far higher prices in auctions than the vast majority of tatty unrestored ones. Even museums have cars restored but never guns. Maybe the answer in this case is "just because" with no plausible rationale whatsoever.

 

[lysanderxiii]

I see, so looking at that rollmark on the barrel, is this a Winchester's?

So Colt's and Winchester's, but not Ruger's?

This is all terribly confusing, I'm giving myself hypertention just thinking about it!!

Colt's Manufacturing Company, and Winchester's Repeating Arms, but Strum Ruger and Company....

That is: the manufacturing company that belongs to Colt and the repeating arms (designs) that belong to Winchester, but poor ol' Ruger does own anything he is just part of a company.

This is a Winchester. Colt and Ruger have nothing to do with it. The gun was designed and put into production in 1873. It was a heavy but very popular rifle chambered in at least 4 calibers I can think of and probably several more. Even after the lighter and more compact 1892 came out in most of the same calibers some would still only buy the 1873. IIRC they were still made after the start of the 20th century from left over parts.

I do not pretend to be a Winchester expert. I am going on my shaky memory of all the Mike Venturino articles I have read over the years. I am certain a real expert will be along shortly to straighten me out.

You missed the joke.

 

[db_tanker]

It was the best I could do under the circumstances.

under the circumstances you have performed beautiful work and I would be proud to own that. you did that rifle a service trying to bring it back to its original condition.

 

[tark]

, unlike with cars where a professionally restored rarity fetches far higher prices in auctions than the vast majority of tatty unrestored ones

That is true as far as it goes. But when you factor in the cost of the restoration, same as with guns, you end up losing money.

Maybe the answer in this case is "just because" with no plausible rationale whatsoever.

Right on the money. Collectors want mint condition , original, untouched firearms. If you look in an auction house's catalog you will see examples of professionally restored guns, often by Doug Turnbull, that are in brand new condition; and they will sell for far less than an original in lesser condition. If you ask me, I'll go for the restored gun every time! It's a bargain, in my book!

 

[HEAVY METAL 1]

"The whole absurdity of loss of value due to restoration has baffled me for quite a long time......."

Yes, the restored- refurbished -arsenal refurbished debate is something that has always left me smiling at the hypocrisy one sometimes sees, at least in my mind. For example: A Russian Mosin Nagant that has been nicely refurbished by the Russians is sneered at yet when the Finns did it the rifle sells for a premium. Granted the Finns often improved the rifle in some ways, different stocks, swivels, triggers yet the gun is no longer original. To me the Russian restored/refurbished rifles are an historical artifact for the very reason they were refurbished. I have a pre-war K98 that is a RC and again for me that again is history in my hands. Does it bother me that it is not as it was when it left the original German factory of its birth? Not in the least.

 

[hq]

But when you factor in the cost of the restoration, same as with guns, you end up losing money.

There are several companies out there that actively seek rare and/or matching number beaters, restore them to perfection and auction them off for profit. Some even build lesser models into high-spec "tribute" cars, which are also in demand and fetch a premium. These business models don't really exist with guns, at least not for the time being. The only logical explanation I can think of are the shoddy refurbs of yore, intended to hide obvious defects of the worst examples and as a result all restoration work has got an artificially bad name that has stuck. Maybe. Possibly. As a wild guess. Nobody seems to know why.

 

[eastbank]

I think the finn redone mosins bring more as the numbers are low compared to the redone Russia mosins, by the way the Russian rearsenaled mosins are going for alot more these days. over all surplused service rifles from all nations are going up, some are selling for thousands of dollars. and while Winchester-colt-Remington ect made many firearms over the years many were also lost for many reasons and ones in very good-mint condition can bring very high prices to collectors along with firearms used in historic events and people. the rifle in the OP would benefit from a refinishing to put it in better condition, but what if it could be traced to a historic event or person? in the end the person who owns it has the choice to do as he-she sees fit, refinish or not. eastbank.

 

[someguy2800]

I already missed the boat on affordable winchester lever actions, but I've been watching the cost of milsurps go up for the last 10 years and decided I better start acquiring the guns I've always wanted before they are all completely unaffordable. I almost can't believe what some milsurp rifles are going for today. I saw two SKS's in a shop today for over $600. Thats overpriced at todays prices, but in a few years I'm certain that will be the going rate. I was just thinking about a thread awhile back where someone was suggesting the CMP should start selling used colt M16 uppers and I thought to myself why in the world would someone want to buy some beat up shot out old M16 upper. Right now it occurred to me that in about a 60 years they will be valuable collectibles selling at auction for a premium. I have to wonder which guns being made today will be valuable to the next generation and which will be throw aways. Will a glock 17 be a valuable collectable 100 years from now with people researching what parts are period correct and trying to figure out manufacturing dates and if its the original finish? Will somebody's aftermarket night sights or ceracoated slide ruin the collector value of it?

 

[1KPerDay]

Will a glock 17 be a valuable collectable 100 years from now with people researching what parts are period correct and trying to figure out manufacturing dates and if its the original finish? Will somebody's aftermarket night sights or ceracoated slide ruin the collector value of it?

Yes to some degree. Unmolested Gen 1 Glocks already command a premium among fanboys. They are already, what... 35 years old?

 

[BrocLuno]

It's not really the value, but providing that the rifle was in original configuration when he started, messing up a part of history. That's the main reason I'm about to do something drastic (but in a way period-correct) to another 100+ year old Winchester shortly, which I definitely wouldn't had it not been already ruined once. To look at the bright side of things, ignorant DIY-smiths create raw material to projects which no-one in their right mind would do to an unmolested gun.

Yeah idiots - give us stuff to tinker on

 

[hemiram]

My really nice S&W 28 has the dead former owner's SS# engraved freehanded on the grip frame. Since you can't see it with grips on it, I didn't mind. The seller had no idea, he just cleaned it up and sent it out. I did have a nasty looking EAA Witness with a huge "FRANK B" on the back grip strap. They ground down the grooves in the strap and went at it. I didn't mind, it was nasty looking anyway. I always wondered who "Frank B" was.

Thankfully no one engraved the owners name, SSN and DOB on the side of the receiver with an electric pencil...seen quite a few firearms ruined by "Operation ID".