What really is "enough" gun?

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Enough gun is the biggest, baddest piece that you can comfortably shoot, and conceal (And if you need to carry a smaller piece for whatever reason, carry what you would like to have if SHTF.)
Just be sure that you train with your carry piece.

My 'carry' gun happens to be a SIG 228.
My 'minimum' gun is either a compact single stack nine, and at least one spare magazine, or 2 J-frame airweight .357 magnums.
 
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dhoomonyou I have to disagree with you here:
"ANY GUN that you feel totally comfortable with is ENOUGH."

That sounds like a rude awakening waiting to happen. The question is not what YOU are comfortable with - the question is 100% how UNcomfortable the goblin will be because of it. If you've only used .22s and you get a new .32 you might think you're a walking howitzer, but you could get an unpleasant reality check when Disgruntled Ex-Employee disagrees.
 
CALIBURN, Its ok to disagree.
My point is that someone should be comfortable, confident, and capable with a sidearm. I would rather have someone be able to hit a BG with a .22 or 9 or 40 or 45 (whatever) than a miss with a BIG A$$, BAD A$$ Desert Eagle.
 
In the words of my dear old Dad, "I've never met anyone who wants to be shot with a .22, have you?"

Having said that, I still prefer the 9mm of the .38 spl as my bottom rung or "average" in that its not too big, not too small... just right... FOR ME!

I have been wondering about that new .17HMR in an 8-shot short barreled revolver tho'. If a .22lr bounces around inside a body upon hitting bone, I wonder if the new .17 would just penetrate through and through.

Leave us pause to wonder.

Adios
 
I am much more concerned with having enough "balls" as opposed to having enough gun...

I honestly think that too many people think of handguns for non-LEO applications as miracle weapons that will allow them to safely keep the bad guy at bay and then calmly wait for the police to arrive and laud their prowess.

I fully expect that any altercation that requires me to use a handgun is also going to involve fighting and wrestling around with someone unless I am lucky enough to be able to run away.

In my case, while I do not carry a full size gun at all times, I do at the very very least have a naa .22 mag on me at all times when awake that I fully intend to poke into someones eye, throat, groin, wherever and blast away. If that fails, I fully intend to bite their throat out and stab them repeatedly until they go away or the cops pull me off their corpse.

Enough gun is any gun you have on you, enough will to use it and get physical about your life is much more important. Flip the switch when you have to and hope for the best - it will all be some amount of luck involved anyway.

My .02

NQ
 
Once again we see two pages of evidence that while it's too much trouble for people to read the question in the intial post, it's not too much trouble for them to type a totally irrelevant treatise answering a question that was not asked...

Congrats folks.

PS. A very few did answer the question asked--this post does not apply to them.
 
I can't really answer how "little power" I'd be willing to carry in a handgun, as "power" is generally most easily connected to "muzzle energy" ...

Using simple muzzle energy calculations to predict handgun bullet weight or caliber effectiveness in immediately incapacitating a person, or an animal, is at best arguably problematic ...

You can browse among the archived threads for topics related to this subject over on the Tactical Forums, under the Terminal Effects Section, and find quite a bit of information ... much of it offered by medical professionals, and/or referenced from medical journals and articles dealing with the trauma caused by the effects of bullet wounds on human bodies. It's not a "chit chat" forum, but you can quietly search out and read quite a bit of information not commonly found in some other forums.

Link to main page of Tactical Forums: http://64.177.53.248/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true

The "least" caliber in a handgun I'd personally consider lawfully carrying for defensive use is a .38 J-frame S&W revolver. That wasn't always the case, though, and as a young cop I remember carrying various handguns chambered in .22LR, .25 ACP and .380 ACP. A few more years in L/E pretty much convinced me that the "convenience" gained by being able to pocket a "minor caliber" pocket pistol might not turn out to be so "convenient" if I really NEEDED a defensive handgun, after all ....

Nowadays, whenever I find myself attracted by some shiny new example of one of the ever-growing number of watch-fob sized handguns, I stop and ask myself if I'd feel confident trying to stop an enraged and attacking pit bull with it. I decided to draw the line at .38 Special, and prefer either all-lead, or jacketed/bonded, +P hollowpoints, even then.

Regarding some of the spin-off thoughts within this thread ...

I have no idea what "enough gun" might be ...

If I reasonably suspected I was about to be involved in a gunfight during the course of my job that I couldn't avoid, I don't think the terms "enough gun" and "handgun" would even come close to appearing within the same sentence. Under those conditions, "Enough handgun" might even be my very favorite oxymoron of the moment.

I'd reach for a shotgun or a rifle ... and still wish I could be anywhere else but there.

Where the hell is Air Wolf when you need it, anyway????

Actually, I seem to remember calling for cover one time, when things were getting a bit fuzzy ... and in a moment of frustration I said something under my breath to the effect that they should also send Air Wolf ... while my mike was still activated. Naturally, while some of the responding units only heard some of the details being broadcast, everyone appeared to hear my muttered request for Air Wolf's response. Talk about selective listening ....
 
I carry a Walther TPH in .22LR; loaded with CCI 36 grain Stingers. They Chronograph at 1150-1250fps at 2-3yrds from the muzzle. At these velocitys they do not reliable expand; but they do pass the 12" penetration requirments submitted by the DOJ+ "experts". I have administered cou-de-gra head shot's to several big game animals, including wild boar. Penetration and death has resulted with one shot every time. I practice every week with it, at 100-200 rds per session, and can print easy 2-6" groups at 25yrds offhand. I allso shoot about one rattlesnake a week, at work/home with it, most are a bit too close for comfort. It's 100% reliable and I dont have any doubts I could use it too great effect on Two legged Goblins if need be. But this is of small concern to me, and I try not to think on it much. I also have a 9mmBhp/gp-35, a 12guge pump, and a 5.56nato Ruger mini-14 Ranch in my truck. So I'm pretty well backed up.:D
 
Y'all are funny. Of course nobody wants to be shot with a .22 or any other caliber gun, but just because people don't want to be shot with it does not mean it is enough firepower to handle a defensive situation where it might be needed.

It is also interesting that some of y'all pseudo define "enough" as what you have with you and not how it will perform on the threat. I don't quite follow that reasoning. Okay, I don't follow it at all.
 
Ok, leme see if I can explain it; The one you have is the best one there is. Or How about a .22 you can put in his eye is way better than the .45 you never shoot, and cant hit the butt of a Packiederm with at 10 feet. Or how about what the #ell good does a desert Eagle .50 do you when it's 120 degrees outside and you just cant bring yourself to put it in you ultra-concealed, deap cover, ITWB holster. How about the first rule of a gun fight is too have a gun. Need more?:)
 
Firstly I’d like to thank you all for your responses, but I’d still like to clarify a couple of things if that’s possible

Fastbolt. “ Enough handgun might even be my favourite oxymoron of the momentâ€

I couldn’t agree more, that’s sort of why I posted this thread in the first place.

Dhoomonyou “ANY GUN you feel totally comfortable with is ENOUGH†and all others with very similar responses.

Whilst I’m not trying to be pedantic it’s exactly this kind of response that I was trying to avoid. I may be very accurate and comfortable with a single shot .177 air gun. Does that then mean it’s a suitable defensive handgun? If it’s not but it was the only gun you had would you carry it? Probably not as it doesn’t even have the power to penetrate thick cardboard and the time spent drawing/ firing it would probably have been better spent drawing a knife/ ASP baton/ Pepper spray/ running etc.

That’s really what I was trying to establish at the start of this thread.

Once again thank you all for your responses.

StuckInTheUK
 
JohnKSa

"I would take anything I could get.
The ability to do injury, however small, to an attacker before you have to go at it hand-to-hand is invaluable.
If I had nothing else, I'd throw something."


I couldnt agree more...
The whole magic caliber/magic bullet ordeal used to be a real sickness for me. I got rid of some nice guns because of some write-up on the latest goblin killer.

Now I wouldnt feel too cheated if I had to defend my home with the 22/45 and a couple 10 rd. mags of stingers. Or maybe the kids single shot 243. if push came to shove.

Sure it's nice having a 1911, a hi-cap Glock, and a hi-cap shotgun by the bed, but these days Im more focused on the readiness mindset of personal protection, instead of the commercial mall-commando aspect of it. I think we need to be ready to defend our homes and families with what we can afford to train with, what we are comfortable with, and whatever is at hand at the time. My camp axe is good back up to whatever happens to be on my hip, as is the ice chipper on the back porch, or a good cross collar choke if it comes to that.

I say buy something reasonable and realistic and dont get too wrapped up in the commercial aspect of personal defense...... train, train, train...plan, plan, plan.
 
I'll still stick with my little walther; it's more than enough for me. It's also very useful, I shoot snakes, rabbit's, two wild dogs so far, and ect. I carry it all the time and forget it's even there, and I dont ever remember drawing it when I need it. When I'm Big game hunting, I can carry 50 extra rounds of ammo for it and not even notice. It's practically part of me. I also have spent several years doing martial arts and kickboxing/boxing so if gunplay is'nt warrented, I'm reasonably prepaired to deal. I really do not think about shooting people often, I think this is an ugly obsesive thing to do. Prepare, but shoot for fun.:D
 
As I sit here in my recliner waiting for the UPS truck to show up, I have a .32 H&R Mag AirLite Ti on my hip with a reload in my watch pocket in one of those thin little Galco pouches. (I forgot what it's called, but it can be worn on the belt too. Very flat.) Plus, my Jetfire is in my pocket loaded with .25ACP Magsafes. However, when I had to go downtown (a not too good section of downtown) a few weeks ago to visit a gunsmith I know, I strapped on my Glock and took a bigger back-up too.

KR
 
A handgun is just a handgun and as such has a whole lot of limitations in regards to its "Firepower/energy level" let alone its quantity of said firepower.

Kentucky Rifle has the right idea in that here is one thing, "there" is another. Your day to day activities at or near home still preclude having something on you, but "going out" into the deep dark dangerous jungle might require you to leave this at home and carry something a bit more... reassuring.

The question is what is the average break point from this to that. I've made my decision on what has worked in the past for either a Police agency or the military (not necessarily ours) and as a general historical consensus, it appears to my way of thinking that the .38 special is considered the bottom line for a self defense weapon with a 9mm, a .40 or the .45 being the preferred choice of people "Who go in harms way" for a living.

I really try hard to avoid "Going in harms way" when I can help it.

YMMV

In the interest of "Being Prepared" (former Boy Scout, didn't stick around for the Eagle), I like the concept of a lot of small fast pellets for that energy transfer we all hope to avoid, so I've selected a Glock 26 with CorBon 115+p, with one extra magazine. I avoid bad parts of town and don't go looking for trouble and if I see it approaching I want to be leaving whenever possible (call me a prudent non-aggressive burro).

My father, who is now 71, has downsized to a Bersa .380 as its lighter and easier for a gentleman his age (or so he says). He was always a 45 auto man in days of yore. He now keeps the 45 at home for homeland defence and carries the .380 when he ventures out and has been known to carry .22's and .25's but thats just him. He avoids trouble too. So far.

Adios
 
Whilst the general consensus seems to have been that a larger calibre is advisable assuming you are accurate with said calibre, most would still carry a .22 if that’s all that was available.
Click to expand...
I would choose a .22LR over a pocket knife or pepper spray IF that was all that was available. I'd also be doing a lot of praying that the mere sight of a handgun would deter attack. However, I have no training in edged weapons. If I knew how to use a knife effectively, I probably choose the knife every time unless a .32 or better was available.

Personally, if I had the choice, and I do, I would prepare myself with something a lot larger. And I do. My dad owns a Jenning .22 and a Kel-Tec P-32. I do not find those weapons comforting at all. I also own a few .32ACP handguns. I would not feel comforted by them for CC.

What is the lowest caliber gun that you would feel comfortable to have in your hand if a big rabid dog came running at you in the street, foaming at the mouth? Maybe a .380 will stop him, maybe not even a 45. I know for sure, he won't be impressed by the fact that you drew a gun on him or by your gee wiz super velocity, ultra expansion ammo. The only thing that's going to stop him is a CNS hit, breaking enough bones that he can't support himself or dropping his blood preassure down enough where he can't run.

From the weapons I presently own, I feel comforted when carrying my CZ-40B (.40S&W) or my 1911 Govt. (45ACP). I feel comforted by these weapons because with the ammo I have chosen to load them with (165gr. and 230gr. Golden Sabers), they have a good track record of stopping power verifiable by multiple sources and perform satisfactory in my own non-scientific tests. I know the weapons are accurate and most importantly, reliable because I shoot them often for enjoyment, not just for practice.

Oh yea, I also carry the pocket knife and pepper spray.
 
the answer is................. whatever it would take to have you come out alive and on top in any situation. That will vary from time to time, but the bottom line is that you should always carry the best balance (for you) of power, accuracy, and reliability.
 
Enough gun is the gun you have with you. The gun I have with me at work is a 239 in 40. More often than not I've got a 38 snub with me when I'm off. I avoid trouble when I can which is pretty much always.

But I never worry about enough gun when I have my 2 inch. I know alot of people that leave bigger and better guns at home that were to hard or inconvienient to conceal.

Being alert, good tactics, practice and confidence in your ability with the gun you are carrying will go alot further in keeping you alive than any bigger gun that holds 15 rounds and eventually get left at home because it eventually becomes a pain in the ??? to carry around.
 
Posted by Skunkabilly...
I think 'enough' is a matter of comfort than an objective equation. Something RELIABLE of .38 caliber or higher (well .223 is good too) than I can hit well with on demand.

This is classic where 'enough' is being defined by what makes the shooter comfortable. Um, for the idea of defense, there is nothing remotely viable about our comfort level when it comes to abilities to deal with problems such as bad guys. Personal comfort isn't the issue and it isn't about us and our guns and how the guns make us feel. It IS all about the ability of those guns to be able to neutralize whatever threat is encountered.

Skunk, I think you have been in PRK too long and your personal shrink has you believing that it isn't what your gun shoots, but how you feel about what your gun shoots. Time to get a new shrink because the current one has you all touchy feely and not in that good Las Vegas way either.
 
A highway patrl out here recently placed 3 .45 acp through the top of the head of a bad guy, and he lived. That is about a 350 fpe per round with a large diameter. Should have been enough to interrupt the CNS. I had to rethink the .45 auto equation. I decided to convert to more perforation power with a .357 mag. I would have gone .44 mag, but they are heavy and difficult to conceal. The .357 mag I now carry has a 1.5 inch width and rides high nicely. 7 rounds. I do not fear the transfer of energy loss by overpenetration. I fear the lack of penetration and failure to expand.

Defensively, enough is .357 mag. Offensively, enough is probably 45 acp.
 
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