what rifle should i get?

[chopinbloc]

okay, finally talked myself into an m14 pattern rifle. pretty sure i want a springfield and i know i want the full length barrel. i wouldn't mind buying another manufacturer's version of the rifle but all that i've seen besides polytech (i'm NOT buying a chinese m14) are about twice the price of the springfields. is it really worth spending that much more? wouldn't the SA basic m1a give about 2 moa with good ammo? obviously i'm not looking to buy a budget rifle or i would be looking at a completely different weapon system but i'd like to get the most for my money. i'm not planning on competing with it, though i might get into that after a while. i might hunt with it. reliability is paramount (shtf, teotwawki, blah, blah, tinfoil, mutter). lastly, i'm pretty set on a wood stock - mainly for looks, i've got enough black rifles.

 

[MechAg94]

I hear a lot of people like Fulton Armory and others. If I had the money I might try one. However, I have a Springfield standard that works great. I have been using some trash linked ammo I had and some South African .308. I have nothing but good things to say. After getting and shooting a VEPR AK clone, I must say the sights are excellent on the M1A.

I have heard some that have had problems with Springfields. I would suggest putting it through its paces immediately. Their warranty service has been good to me. I only used it once for a broken slide stop on a 1911 mil-spec though.

 

[hillbilly]

I am not trying to be a smart alek here.

But you say in your post that you want advice as to what rifle to buy.

And then you say you've decided on an M14, but you don't want a Chinese one.

Well, that pretty much limits you to a Springfield (aren't the "Fulton Armory" M1As just prettied-up Springfields? Or are the receivers actually Fulton Armory?)

You even say that you want one of the expensive Springfields.

It sounds like you've already decided that you want one of the high cost Springfield M14 type rifles.

You don't need any advice.

You already exactly what you want.

In other words, this thread is sort of like saying, "I know I want a 2006 Porsche 944 with the full options package....but should I get the red one or the black one?"

You already know.

Go get it.

hillbilly

 

[GoRon]

LRB is well spoken of on the M14/M1A forum board(s). All Made In USA.

M14/M1A Rifle

 

[chopinbloc]

hillbilly, what i mean is that i know i don't what a crap rifle and i've heard that's what the polytech is. i THINK i want a springfield but i want to know if it's worth spending the extra money on an lrb or fulton armory (aside from being able to call it an m14) is there that much of a quality difference or would i be better served by buying the more inexpensive rifle? for that matter, since i plan to put glass on the rifle, should i spend extra on a match sprinfield or just get a basic? that is if i get a springfield. don't they all have match barrels? if so, i could just get a trigger job later on by a competent 'smith, right?

bottom line is how much more am i really gonna get for an extra thousand hard earned greenbacks?

 

[30Cal]

You can find a used match conditioned M1A for $1100'ish if you look around (there's two on www.nationalmatch.us right now). The nice thing about buying a used one that's been tweeked is that you can be almost 100% certain that it'll work (and you get much more rifle for your $$$$).

The one drawback to a match rifle is the added weight. A medium weight barrel adds 1lb; a heavyweigh barrel adds 2. The other thing is that you should avoid stripping it down as it is not good for the bedding (not a problem unless you regularly shoot in the rain or make amphibious landings).

For a top-ranked competitive shooter, a match barrel will last 3-6k rounds. For the rest of us, 10k.

FWIW, a match barrel does not equate to a match rifle (i.e. Springfield's Loaded model). The M14 needs a lot of other custom work to really make it sing. A gunsmith is not necessarily a person that is qualified to work on M1's and M1A's. If you need work done, get it done by someone that specializes in these rifles. A trigger job should run $25-30.

Ty

 

[DMK]

i'm not planning on competing with it, though i might get into that after a while. i might hunt with it. reliability is paramount (shtf, teotwawki, blah, blah, tinfoil, mutter). lastly, i'm pretty set on a wood stock - mainly for looks, i've got enough black rifles.

Have you considered a FAL? The M1A is a bit more accurate on average, but they can't beat the AK like reliability of the FAL. They do make them with wood furniture.

http://www.dsarms.com

 

[iamkris]

Actually the Polytechs and their ilk are known to have excellent receivers...it is the bolts that are sometimes considered soft and have excessive headspace "prematurely". You can get one of those (~$750) then have it retrofitted with a GI bolt...then again you may have almost as much as a "good deal" Springfield. Depends on how much you value the ChiCom forged receiver.

Then again, I have a Springfield Loaded model bought from a guy who had never fired it (I believe him...zero wear) for about $300 under what they currently are advertised in Shotgun News (and lots under MSRP). It is extremely accurate with my match handloads and reliable.

I also own a DSA StG58A. If I needed a long range "command an area" rifle the M1A would be it. If I needed to drag around a full size battle rifle for day to day use, it would be the FAL. Short range light weight it would be my AK or M4-gery.

 

[Sewerman]

in my most humble opinion the fulton is slightly superior to the springfield. my neighbor has one of each and swears the fulton is a better rifle. i have fired both and like the fulton better becouse it has wood furniture but i could not tell any difference in the way the 2 shoot. i am very fortunate to have such a neighbor he owns a gun shop and has an 80 yard range in his back yard that i am welcome to use any time i wish

 

[NMshooter]

Another vote for LRB arms.

Springfield QC needs improvement.

 

[chopinbloc]

yeah, i thought about getting a fal, but not this time. let me see if i'm hearing you all right: seems like they're all decent but lrb and fulton are probably better. if i do get a springfield i should get the loaded. think i'm leaning towards fulton now. you guys have been helpful. if there's anything else i need to know please tell me. i got about a month to make my decision.

what is the real difference between a cast receiver and a forged one?

 

[odysseus]

aren't the "Fulton Armory" M1As just prettied-up Springfields? Or are the receivers actually Fulton Armory?)

The recievers are Armscorp, not Springfield. You could send a Springy to Fulton and have them put GI parts on it, but that was in the past - not sure if they are doing it or not and GI parts are more scarce and very $$$. Right now the only issue with Fulton I hear about is that the Armscorp recievers they have are not very clean and have a lot of cosmetic machining issues that was not finished. Also their turnaround times are very very slow.

Springy makes a good rifle. Also their lifetime warranty is real, and turnaround is good. I have used it personally. They make good rifles, they aren't the best of the best meant to be competition ready out of the box normally. They are however a good deal with what you spend and most shooters are very happy with them.

For that as in all other things you will need a lot of $$$. M1a/m14 rifles have a cottage industry behind them with many good people who can tune them and add parts. The action is not built to be super accurate, it is a battle rifle, but people can get real good groups with them by customizing work. YMMV. It depends if you want one for $1200, or you really want one for $2200

 

[Sewerman]

there is a gun shop right up the road from me that has a fulton brand new in the box for 1000 bucks, if i had the money it would already be in my safe

 

[NMshooter]

It is not the "cast vs. forged" issue, as far as I can tell Springfield receivers will hold up just fine.

It is the fact that their cast receivers are sometimes out of spec, and some parts are not in spec, that bothers me. Well, that and I had problems that Springfield was not able to fix after repeated attempts.

Should have let someone else try, plenty of folks out there who know how to make an M1A work, but after the fourth rifle I just gave up.

I guess you can spend the money up front, or you can spend it later, like with so much else...

 

[Dienekes]

I have had an SA GI with medium weight NM barrel since about 96; only started using it much about 4 years ago and am coming up on 2000 rounds through it. Had it glass bedded, unitized, and a trigger job once I started using it. It wears the original wood stock which is nice and traditional. I have a GI fiberglass space but it doesn't have the same look and feel.

I much prefer a forged reciever but in all honesty this rifle has performed very, very well for me to include perfect reliability. I wish everything I bought worked that well.

IMHO a standard weight GI type M1A will serve you very well. Most triggers are pretty good out of the box, and you can always upgrade the rifle as your skills improve. Let's face it--most rifles outshoot their owners anyway. Mine do.

As to glass, it's a nice option and the reason I even own an M1A. But I only mounted the scope once for the novelty and took it off again. Irons do very well if your eyesight will allow them. Am currently looking at the ARMs mount setup but it looks like about $350 investment before the optics. May do it someday but I will shoot the M1A with irons as long as I can get away with it.

BTW I have a fair amount of experience with the M14 for comparison. The M1A is ok in my book.

 

[chopinbloc]

thanks for all the responses. what kind of accuracy, objectively speaking do those of you who own m1a/m14 rifles get out of them? could you tell me in terms of inches at measured distance or moa what you get with good ammo? after reliability that's pretty much THE issue with a rifle.

 

[cvb]

M1a

if you can find used for less than 1k get it-Springfield warranty and so on...
otherwise boringly accurate and no trouble at all.

 

[NMshooter]

Dienekes: $350? sounds high for an ARMS #18. Check out www.mountsplus.com have had good luck with them in the past. If your receiver is out of spec you may have mounting issues, be prepared to fit the mount to the receiver. I like this mount more than any of the others.

chopinbloc: Typically 3MOA with a decent GI barrel and M-80 ball. You can get better than that but to get 1MOA you have to do a lot of work, and the end result requires a lot of upkeep. Might as well start purchasing GI magazines now, the price is not going to drop. Whatever you purchase, if it does not come with a GI bolt get one and have it fitted to your rifle.

 

[chopinbloc]

nm: i'm guessing the sa does not come with a gi bolt. if i do get the sa, how much would a gi bolt cost and how much could i figure on spending to have it hand fitted? why is the gi bolt better?

i know it's a lot of questions, but i'm gonna sink alot of money in this thing and i want to get it right. i don't think i need any better than 3 moa right now, if ever. that's about the edge of my shooting ability. as i get better, would it be completely unreasonable to expect 2moa out of a sa with a moderate amount of work? do you guys think it is attainable without glass bedding? again, thanks for the help, i don't know much of the details of this weapon system and i think your input will keep me from making any big mistakes. of course, once i get the rifle, then i need to learn how to shoot.

 

[Willyboi]

Chopinbloc...

Private Message me about the Mil M-14 bolt... I have some parts and maybe a whole bolt for yah!

 

[nyresq]

go for the super match with the mcmillian stock.... what the hell, you only live once.... and probably not for long if the wife ever finds out what a super match costs....

 

[NMshooter]

Well, Fulton Armory will not guarantee better than 2.5 MOA with their rack grade and ball ammo (I am assuming US M-80 ball), to get better than that always seems to require "unitizing" or welding together the gas system. That is no longer a combat rifle, it is a precision rifle, and there is a difference.

Looks to me like Willyboi might be able to answer that question about the bolt, otherwise I would first see if you have any local gunsmiths capable of doing the work, then I would talk to 1911Tuner or Kaylee.