What rifle would work for my needs?
- Thread starter FireInCairo
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nastynatesfish
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I'd say a ruger scout rifle in 308 but not for 500. Cheapest I've seen is 700. Or get yourself a Mauser in 7x57 or 8mm for 200-250 from a pawn shop. Get a detachable bottom mettle from CID or the likes and get a couple 10 round mags. Have you though of the 17hmr? I heaar good things from it up to and including elk ;-)
You can't go wrong with this:
http://www.classicfirearms.com/vz2008czechriflesemiautowmagsetc
Great, ultra reliable rifles; NOT an AK (or an AR)....And lighter than an AK. You can even get a rail for them...I have 1 and my pops has 2! Love 'em almost as much as my AKs
http://www.classicfirearms.com/vz2008czechriflesemiautowmagsetc
Great, ultra reliable rifles; NOT an AK (or an AR)....And lighter than an AK. You can even get a rail for them...I have 1 and my pops has 2! Love 'em almost as much as my AKs
Mosin Bubba
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Consider a GP-1975 AK. It wouldn't be my choice for a hunting gun, and 7.62x39 is too much for home defense, but it checks all the other boxes. Even has the forward grip. Bud's has them for right around $500.
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Baron_Null
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You can't go wrong with this:
http://www.classicfirearms.com/vz2008czechriflesemiautowmagsetc
Great, ultra reliable rifles; NOT an AK (or an AR)....And lighter than an AK. You can even get a rail for them...I have 1 and my pops has 2! Love 'em almost as much as my AKs
One thing to warn about with VZ58's that are semi-auto, there is an issue that can develop over time where the striker does not re-cock after cycling. The Czechpoint VZ's are mostly immune due to a modification where a tab is welded to the bottom of the bolt, but Czechpoint patented the design, and as such the Century VZ2008's do not have said tab. You can have it done by various people around the internet for about $50 plus shipping, though.
Sav .250
Member
I`m guessing you would really like a ...machine gun. If legal of course.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
I'm not sure there are many rifles that meet *all* those requirements. I think you might have to give up either light weight, price, or hunting caliber. Plenty of guns meet all but one of your requirements, but meeting them all is tricky.
Addressing them one by one:
A sufficiently accurate AK in 7.62x39mm would work (154-grain softpoints are a decent deer load), *if* the accuracy in your hands is sufficient.
A 6.5mm or 6.8mm AR, one of the rare 6.8mm mini-14's, AR-10, FNAR, M1A, etc. might be well suited for hunting, but many of these can't meet your weight or price criteria.
Unless you live in a masonry-faced house or are pretty isolated, the hunting calibers will pose more risk of exiting the structure than .223/5.56mm.
The only thing you'll typically find under $500 is a Romanian AK in 7.62x39mm, a non-Russian SKS, a lever gun, or perhaps an older used mini-14 if you look around (but be aware that serial numbers before 580-xxxxx are typically less accurate than the newer ones).
You can get a good AR for $600 or so, possibly less (the Smith & Wesson M&P Sport has a good reputation for a basic carbine).
I've seen low-end AR-10 type rifles for $800ish, if I recall.
Addressing them one by one:
Guns that are on the lightweight side include a lightweight AR (pencil or lightweight barrel, 16"), Mini-14 (not Target) or Mini Thirty, Kel-Tec SU-16, Remington 7615, lightweight AK in 5.45x39, lever-action in .357, FN PS90, plenty of others, but rules out a number of the hunting-caliber guns. It also rules out the SKS, which is rather big and heavy.
Most anything listed above, except not many lever-action magazines are detachable.
This tends to argue against the .223's, since it's only marginally powerful enough for deer hunting (you can hunt deer with it if you choose the load carefully, get reasonably close, take only good shots, and aren't hunting the bigger deer species). In a survival situation or in experienced hands, .223 is certainly sufficient for hunting, but is not the ideal caliber for a first deer gun.
A sufficiently accurate AK in 7.62x39mm would work (154-grain softpoints are a decent deer load), *if* the accuracy in your hands is sufficient.
A 6.5mm or 6.8mm AR, one of the rare 6.8mm mini-14's, AR-10, FNAR, M1A, etc. might be well suited for hunting, but many of these can't meet your weight or price criteria.
In the HD role, pretty much any 16" barreled carbine would meet the length requirement given an adjustable stock (or a fairly short fixed-length stock), and .223/5.56mm shines in this role.
Unless you live in a masonry-faced house or are pretty isolated, the hunting calibers will pose more risk of exiting the structure than .223/5.56mm.
A decent AR is very durable, certainly as much as a mini-14, and far more durable than a typical pump-action or lever-action. They are also quite reliable if they are put together right and occasionally lubricated; cleaning isn't nearly as important as oil is, just as with the AK.
That may rule out 5.45x39mm and 6.5mm for you. 6.8mm should be available locally, but it is not as ubiquitous as .223/5.56mm or .308.
Ay, there's the rub.
The only thing you'll typically find under $500 is a Romanian AK in 7.62x39mm, a non-Russian SKS, a lever gun, or perhaps an older used mini-14 if you look around (but be aware that serial numbers before 580-xxxxx are typically less accurate than the newer ones).
You can get a good AR for $600 or so, possibly less (the Smith & Wesson M&P Sport has a good reputation for a basic carbine).
I've seen low-end AR-10 type rifles for $800ish, if I recall.
You say you need a gun to fit your needs, but your list sounds mostly like wants. You need a high capacity hunting rifle that looks tactical and all for under $500? Drop the tactical idea and the high capacity idea if you want a hunting rifle. Look into a cheap lever gun. Good for hunting and home defense.
dprice3844444
member
http://www.aresdefense.com/?page_id=729 check here,223 or 762x39
Riomouse911
Member
I don't think I saw a Ruger Mini 30 mentioned.
Enough oomph for deer/hogs/black bears etc... (near .30-30 ballistics)
20 round mags, semi-auto operation. Scope ready in Ranch Rifle guise.
Ammo easy to locate. Can be made "tactical" or left plain-Jane.
Can be a bit expensive to buy new and not the most accurate gun are drawbacks.
Enough oomph for deer/hogs/black bears etc... (near .30-30 ballistics)
20 round mags, semi-auto operation. Scope ready in Ranch Rifle guise.
Ammo easy to locate. Can be made "tactical" or left plain-Jane.
Can be a bit expensive to buy new and not the most accurate gun are drawbacks.
ExAgoradzo
Member
Snide comment warning:
Every branch of the US military uses an AR platform as do many other countries....we wouldn't want something battle proven to be 'durable'.
And this is a guy who doesn't like ARs.
Now to return to your normal nice guy...
Good luck finding what you want bro.... I like my Mini 14s.
Greg
Every branch of the US military uses an AR platform as do many other countries....we wouldn't want something battle proven to be 'durable'.
And this is a guy who doesn't like ARs.
Now to return to your normal nice guy...
Good luck finding what you want bro.... I like my Mini 14s.
Greg
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Century Arms recently came out with a 100% Made in the USA AK-47, the Centurion 39. The C39 has a milled receiver, and chrome lined barrel and a bunch of other very good things.
http://centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=RI1622C-N
I think it's everything you are looking for except for the price. They usually run ~$699 but IMO very well worth it. Since it's made in USA no worries about being 922 compliant. What's not to like?
They also have one the call their C39 Tactical which you might like better from what you said in your post.
http://centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=RI2167-N
they have a bunch of different models and even some that are CA compliant too.
http://centuryarms.biz/products.asp?cat=54
http://centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=RI1622C-N
I think it's everything you are looking for except for the price. They usually run ~$699 but IMO very well worth it. Since it's made in USA no worries about being 922 compliant. What's not to like?
They also have one the call their C39 Tactical which you might like better from what you said in your post.
http://centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=RI2167-N
they have a bunch of different models and even some that are CA compliant too.
http://centuryarms.biz/products.asp?cat=54
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Milled receivers are very high quality, but the run a little heavier than stamped receivers, if weight is a consideration. The C39 is 8.2 pounds empty, compared to just under 7 pounds empty for a 7.62x39mm SAR-1 (1mm stamped AKM style receiver).
The lightest AK will be a 1mm stamped AKM style in 5.45x39mm with polymer magazines and milsurp polymer furniture, though the Warsaw Pact style wood stocks are also rather light. The wire sidefolders are noticeably heavier than a full stock.
The lightest AK will be a 1mm stamped AKM style in 5.45x39mm with polymer magazines and milsurp polymer furniture, though the Warsaw Pact style wood stocks are also rather light. The wire sidefolders are noticeably heavier than a full stock.
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
I had a Mini-14 years ago. Couldn't get it to group no matter what I tried. Sold it, bought an AR. Never looked back.
Of course, I'm assuming by the reference to "high capacity magazines" that you want a semi-auto. But maybe a bolt action, like the Ruger Scout?
Of course, I'm assuming by the reference to "high capacity magazines" that you want a semi-auto. But maybe a bolt action, like the Ruger Scout?
KansasSasquatch
Member
Maybe a Mossberg MVP, Patrol or Flex models. It's bolt action so it may not be the best home defense weapon, but it should meet the rest of your criteria. You might have trouble finding one new in your price range, but you could certainly my find a used one for a good price. I was recently offered a 5.56 version for about $400.
IBEWBULL
Member
For the price you mentioned.
$500 or less, well being a fan of Mel Tappan.
But without a time machine I can only say a nice used lever action center fire.
I still like my 336 Marlin carbine.
Short fast handling light accurate to 200 yards easy and NO shortage of ammo.
If you keep her topped off in the magazine it will never run dry.
I still see the 94 Winchesters at $200 here in Wisconsin too.
In days gone by I would say 303 British Enfield but ammo is out of sight now.
A 7.62x54 Nagant carbine could do.
Good luck,
Steve
PS a 12 ga pump can be had $150
$500 or less, well being a fan of Mel Tappan.
But without a time machine I can only say a nice used lever action center fire.
I still like my 336 Marlin carbine.
Short fast handling light accurate to 200 yards easy and NO shortage of ammo.
If you keep her topped off in the magazine it will never run dry.
I still see the 94 Winchesters at $200 here in Wisconsin too.
In days gone by I would say 303 British Enfield but ammo is out of sight now.
A 7.62x54 Nagant carbine could do.
Good luck,
Steve
PS a 12 ga pump can be had $150
While I agree an AR would work, I think there's a something that a lot of us are forgetting when we suggest that... THE OP DOESNT WANT AN AR
Also, if you want something for hunting, what are you planning on hunting? I can't really recommend an AK if you want to go up north and shoot moose...
Some options you might want to look into:
-AK variant: reliable, in my experience they are pretty accurate, and the Saiga ones can be found in a couple different calibers, including .308 & .30-06
-FAL: it's a 308, and from what I hear, they can be pretty darn good rifles. I own one, but I haven't had the chance to put enough rounds through it to be able to comment on its accuracy or reliability. That being said, every capitalist country during the Cold War that wasn't the US can't be wrong. They tend to be more expensive, but you might be able to find a used one in your price.
Those are really the only two I can think of off the top of my head... If you want to spend quite a bit more, you could always get a GLOCK 20 and a carbine conversion kit. Because, ya know, who wouldn't want a 10mm carbine
Also, if you want something for hunting, what are you planning on hunting? I can't really recommend an AK if you want to go up north and shoot moose...
Some options you might want to look into:
-AK variant: reliable, in my experience they are pretty accurate, and the Saiga ones can be found in a couple different calibers, including .308 & .30-06
-FAL: it's a 308, and from what I hear, they can be pretty darn good rifles. I own one, but I haven't had the chance to put enough rounds through it to be able to comment on its accuracy or reliability. That being said, every capitalist country during the Cold War that wasn't the US can't be wrong. They tend to be more expensive, but you might be able to find a used one in your price.
Those are really the only two I can think of off the top of my head... If you want to spend quite a bit more, you could always get a GLOCK 20 and a carbine conversion kit. Because, ya know, who wouldn't want a 10mm carbine
RustyShackelford
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Ruger Scout Rifle in 7.62/.308.....
I'm not sure if it meets all your needs/requirements, but the Ruger Scout Rifle may work great.
It's offered in stainless & bolt action format.
I'm left handed so the Ruger left handed model is worth it to me, .
See; www.Ruger.com .
I'm not sure if it meets all your needs/requirements, but the Ruger Scout Rifle may work great.
It's offered in stainless & bolt action format.
I'm left handed so the Ruger left handed model is worth it to me,
.See; www.Ruger.com .
200Apples
Mojave Lever Crew
.
^ ^ ^ What Rusty said.
The Ruger Gunsite Scout (although overweight according to Col. Jeff Cooper's original "scout" rifle concept goals) is short (16.5" or 18" barrel lengths), durable, accurate, around 7.5 lbs... look for one previously-pwned for under $700.
I'd recommend a Ruger American Compact (more of a junior-length of pull) for less, and chambering available in .308 but that rifle has a fixed capacity , 4-round internal mag.
5-round detachable Ruger polymer magazine
__________
10-round Ruger magazine
^ ^ ^ What Rusty said.
The Ruger Gunsite Scout (although overweight according to Col. Jeff Cooper's original "scout" rifle concept goals) is short (16.5" or 18" barrel lengths), durable, accurate, around 7.5 lbs... look for one previously-pwned for under $700.
I'd recommend a Ruger American Compact (more of a junior-length of pull) for less, and chambering available in .308 but that rifle has a fixed capacity , 4-round internal mag.
5-round detachable Ruger polymer magazine
__________
10-round Ruger magazine
fanchisimo
Member
If you can wait, I think a VEPR in 308 might do you well. Right now their import status is unlikely and thus are at a higher price, but if the ban is lifted and some time passes, the prices might go down into your budget.
greyling22
Member
I wouldn't ever count on sanctions being lifted. sanctions are still holding against norinco from the 80's. (poor norinco. poor america) Heck, we can't even get our own m1's back.
paratrooper sks
vz58
keltec su-16
m1 carbine with hollow points.
paratrooper sks
vz58
keltec su-16
m1 carbine with hollow points.
FireInCairo
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Thanks for all the options. I'm looking into a bunch of them.
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