What rounds could we see crossing over between long gun and handgun?

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WestKentucky

WestKentucky

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I know ARs can take anything rimless and contenders can take anything under a certain pressure rating, but what rifle cartridges could we or should we see in handguns and what handgun rounds should we see in rifles?

To start us off, I would love to see 300blk in a handgun, especially in a revolver. It would be no larger than a judge so it would be a lot of fun.

I would also like to see some love for 32 cal revolver rounds in small bolt action rifles, especially 32hr mag or 327fed. A 22lr rifle size/weight gun in .380 would be sweet too. Not that it will ever happen but it would be sweet.
 
I'd like to see a CX4 in 10 mm and a lever gun in 460 mag


Don't care fore rifle rounds in revolvers really.
 
460 lever needs to happen. If it could also reliably feed 45 Colt and 454, that's a winner. Of course it'd probably be way to expensive like that 500 lever.

I'd like to see more revolvers in 45/70.
 
Interesting question, but I would note that revolver caliber carbines are already scarce. First we would need more support from gun maker capacity.
 
One of the days Glock is going to make a line of PCCs and then things will really take off. 10mm and .45 ACP large frame; 9mm, .40 S&W, and .357 SIG small frame; and they'll be off to the races.
 
A 22lr rifle size/weight gun in .380 would be sweet too.
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I wouldn't think so. Loaded to SAAMI specs, the powder charge is so small that it'd probably run outta gas before it made it to the muzzle of even a 16-inch barrel with any substantial velocity left. You'd probably get more oomph from a pistol barrel.
 
I am pretty much with Kodiac, but would add .327 carbine, and I would buy a .22TCM AR upper today if available (for a normal AR upper price.)
 
10mm Carbines, 7.62x25 but made from/loaded to 223 pressures, and a revival of 22 Spitfire in both carbines and pistols (or even 30, for that matter). 45 Win Mag in a carbine would sure be fun, too. A Broomhandle Mauser lookalike made from a modified AR lower receiver in 223/etc would be incredibly cool, especially if it could be done as a recoil operated action (long recoil, obviously).

It seems like there is a 1.5" barrier, beyond which pistols cannot/are not chambered in large numbers. Likewise, it seems like very few rifles are chambered in anything shorter than 2", so it's kinda hard to make the latter fit into the former and be successful in the market. I think there's a lot more potential in getting higher-end pistol chamberings into 'light carbines' in the vein of the M1 Carbine than there is in making heavy pistols with the poorest characteristics of both types (short sight radius/unstable platform, and a hard-kicking round)

TCB
 
Almost all of the handgun rounds suffer from the same malady, poor ballistics coefficients. That means we won't see much distance before the energy falls off and the bullet path comes to resemble a rainbow.

A couple of notable options are the 7.62x25 handgun round used in the Tokarev and to some extent the .357Mag. The rest are all simply too fat and short to reach out all that far. Although options with heavier bullets can do nicely as long as we don't mind the arc shaped path on the way to the target. Things like the .44Mag and .45Colt manage this thanks to the weight of the bullet. And for guys like me that actually LIKE my old single shot .38-55 with it's rainbow trajectory this is fine. But for many it's all about fast and flat.

I gotta agree that something like a .460 in a lever gun would be a great option. But in many ways it would be mimicking the .444 Marlin round. And look how THAT one took off.... So us loony folks that want such things aside I don't see that there's much on the horizon for PCC's in either the popular rimless or rimmed cartridges. The Great Unwashed Public voted on these sort of guns with their wallets some time ago. And the makers have long memories.

EDIT- There is ONE hope though. A company like H&R should produce a Handi Rifle in .460 Mag. Since they already have one in .500S&W this should be a POC. And I wonder what the acceptance would be if Ruger produced some No.3's or No.1's in something like .460Mag.

Such a thing for Ruger would not be out of the question either. They have a reputation for doing batches of these single shot Farquharson rifles in oddball chamberings for a batch and send them out there and let them sink or swim. They even did a batch in .303British for a Canadian group order and sold a few to others in the US a couple of years back. So a batch in something like .460 isn't out of the question.
 
Ummmmmm................32-20, 38-40, and 44-40. Over 100 years ago. 45 Colt is a newcomer to being chambered in rifles as well as revolvers.
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How new? The calibers you mentioned were also known as black powder rounds, correct? How old? I don't think it's "new" to carry a rifle and revolver sharing the same ammo, or capable of doing so. The 45 Colt itself is certainly not "new" in cartridge terms.
 
I don't see that there's much on the horizon for PCC's in either the popular rimless or rimmed cartridges. The Great Unwashed Public voted on these sort of guns with their wallets some time ago. And the makers have long memories
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The 1934 NFA was actually the responsible party. PCC's would have a lot more appeal if they could actually be made smaller than full-size rifles without a +1 year waiting period at this point. Setting a minimum barrel length kinda puts a lower limit on the aspect ratio of rifle rounds (by which I mean the ratio of powder volume to caliber). Were it a weight limit of 12lbs instead of a length requirement of 16", we'd probably have seen much less of 22LR and Hornet over the years, and more long range benchrest rigs with high recoil. I would agree the Great Unwashed Public voted for such restrictions long ago, though.

TCB
 
I think some of the current rifle/pistol cross over rounds are doing quite well. The .44 magnum for example makes for an excellent short range round from rifle. The new bullets being produced by Hornady (not so new anymore I guess) have added a lot to the BC of the bullets giving them more range. And they still deliver a lot of expansion. They out perform the venerable .30-30 for example at shorter ranges. Of course they lose velocity faster because of being heavier. It depends on what type of shooting you want to do or what kind of hunting you want to do or what kind of SD is needed.

Of course a .444 is an even better round than a .44 mag but it isn't a pistol round.
 
Anyone actually witnessed the Beretta CX4 that 460Kodiak mentioned? I've got a guy trying to trade me either a 9mm or a .45 CX4, but I really don't see the appeal, except for the price of ammo.
 
How new? The calibers you mentioned were also known as black powder rounds, correct? How old? I don't think it's "new" to carry a rifle and revolver sharing the same ammo, or capable of doing so. The 45 Colt itself is certainly not "new" in cartridge terms.
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Where does it say 'new' anywhere in the heading of this thread? Yes, these are all very old cartridges. 44-40 was first chambered in a revolver in 1878. Although 45 Colt is not a new cartridge, dating from 1873, it was not chambered in rifles until very recently, probably the 1980s. Which is pretty recent as far as I am concerned.
 
Such a thing for Ruger would not be out of the question either. They have a reputation for doing batches of these single shot Farquharson rifles in oddball chamberings for a batch and send them out there and let them sink or swim. They even did a batch in .303British for a Canadian group order and sold a few to others in the US a couple of years back. So a batch in something like .460 isn't out of the question.
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Ruger actually did chamber the No. 1 in 460 S&W magnum for a few years. And about a week ago I got tremendously lucky and found one on Gunbroker.com, NIB! I'm super excited to get it and should have it on Monday. It has a 22 inch barrel. As far as I know, Ruger and Thompson are the only companies that ever chambered rifles for the 460. I may be wrong on that though.

I plan to post some chrony results when I am able to test the velocities. May not be until the holidays.

I think a Marlin guide gun setup would still be handier for the bush, and will buy one if anyone ever makes one. This will make me wayyyyy happy for now though.

Another forum member posted results from a 20 inch Thompson and was breaking 2800 ft/sec with the Hornady 200 gr load. If you do the math, that is almost 3500 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle.

I'll try to find the thread. Can you tell I'm a bit excited?:)
 
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Quote:
How new? The calibers you mentioned were also known as black powder rounds, correct? How old? I don't think it's "new" to carry a rifle and revolver sharing the same ammo, or capable of doing so. The 45 Colt itself is certainly not "new" in cartridge terms.
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Where does it say 'new' anywhere in the heading of this thread? Yes, these are all very old cartridges. 44-40 was first chambered in a revolver in 1878. Although 45 Colt is not a new cartridge, dating from 1873, it was not chambered in rifles until very recently, probably the 1980s. Which is pretty recent as far as I am concerned.
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Quoting you (again):

45 Colt is a newcomer to being chambered in rifles as well as revolvers.
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Not sure about the reference to the thread title/heading, but my reference was to your calling 45 Colt revolver/rifle a "newcomer". Thanks for providing the chronology of the 45 Colt rifle.
 
Actually, it looks like some .380 loads are absolutely smokin' from a 16" barrel.
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That is pretty cool!

We found some .45 acp 160 gr. loads that topped out around 1650 fps from a 16" barrel as well, well outperforming their 230 gr. counterparts that didn't seem to benefit very much from the extra barrel length.
 
Here's the thread I was thinking of, in case anyone wants to read it.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=289187

UPDATE: Bighorn Armory has a 460 mag lever gun listed on their site now!

From their FAQ page: We announce the introduction of the Model 90, chambered in 460 S&W Magnum. After intensive development, we have created the Model 90. It will fire 45 Colt, 454 Casull and 460 S&W. We are taking orders, now, for shipment before years end.
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http://www.bighornarmory.com/

Save your pennies ladies and gents, because it isn't cheap. I plan to order one....... when the money has been gathered. That's going to take awhile.

Oh, and adding another gun to the thread, I think a KRISS Super V with a 6.5" barrel would be a really cool gun, and would be a very serious CQB gun.
 
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.460 and .500 S&W would make sweet lever action cartridges, as would .327 and .30 carbine.
Some redesign work may be needed for the extractor and the cartridge stops (for rimless cartridges), but nothing that can't be done.

I'd like a 7.62x25 semiauto carbine.
A new manufacture, mil-spec M1 carbine would make me happy, especially if 100 round drums were made for it.
 
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