What semi auto pistols have "fixed" barrels?

[rcmodel]

Which type is more accurate, and why?

I think you are comparing apples & oranges.

Most of the center-fire semi-autos on the market are in effect, loose military pistols that are being sold commercially. They are loose to insure function when they are full of dirt & sand. And they have heavy triggers to insure safety. Both these features detract from accuracy.
The accuracy standards on them are not held as high as hunting guns like the Wildy, Auto-Mag, or target guns like the Colt Gold Cup or Les Baer custom gun.

As someone else noted, a 1911 has a link controlled moving barrel.
But it only moves after the gun is unlocked, and the bullet is already long gone.
When it is in battery, there is no movement at all, period.

The fact remains that a match grade 1911 with a moving barrel has won more NRA bullseye pistol matches in the last 75 years then all other handguns combined.

A loose GI grade 1911 will shot 6" groups at 50 yards.
A match grade 1911 will put all the bullets in one ragged hole.

rc

 

[Billy Shears]

I think you are comparing apples & oranges.

Most of the center-fire semi-autos on the market are in effect, loose military pistols that are being sold commercially. They are loose to insure function when they are full of dirt & sand. And they have heavy triggers to insure safety. Both these features detract from accuracy.
The accuracy standards on them are not held as high as hunting guns like the Wildy, Auto-Mag, or target guns like the Colt Gold Cup or Les Baer custom gun.

As someone else noted, a 1911 has a link controlled moving barrel.
But it only moves after the gun is unlocked, and the bullet is already long gone.
When it is in battery, there is no movement at all, period.

The fact remains that a match grade 1911 with a moving barrel has won more NRA bullseye pistol matches in the last 75 years then all other handguns combined.

A loose GI grade 1911 will shot 6" groups at 50 yards.
A match grade 1911 will put all the bullets in one ragged hole.

rc

True, true.

Theoretically, a fixed barrel is more intrinsicly accurate, since there is possibly a small variation in the position of a moving barrel each time the gun returns to battery after each shot. However, in practical terms, a really well built pistol with a moving barrel, such as a match-grade 1911 for example, will have more potential accuracy, even so, than any human marksman is fully capable of exploiting.

 

[rcmodel]

I might add that a fixed barrel does not mean the slide is tight & without movement on the frame.
And the sights are attached to the slide, not the fixed barrel.

A fixed barrel also does not insure you are getting good well defined sights on the gun.
Or a really great trigger pull.

All of which do more for intrinsic accuracy then a fixed barrel.

rc

 

[doubs43]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Astra 300, 400, & 600.

That's probably because their barrels are not truly "fixed" but are held in place by lugs that slot into recesses. The barrels are easily separated from the slide and frame for cleaning while a true fixed barrel remains attached to the frame and can not be separated.

 

[Just One Shot]

Bersa's

 

[waldonbuddy]

Which variation of the 1911 has good accuracy for under 1k, or would it be best to just build one myself? I know if built by me there would be no warrenty which could be the breaking point of that idea.
I might just give one a try.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Which variation of the 1911 has good accuracy for under 1k,...

With a 1911, or any other type of pistol, accuracy will vary from example to example. No two guns, even of the same make and model, will be 100% dimensionally identical to the ten thousandths of an inch. In one, the tolerances may stack in the direction of tighter and more consistent lock up and thus greater accuracy. In another example the tolerances may stack in the other direction. Each might be considered reasonably accurate, but one may be notably more accurate.

And of course, ammunition may have something to do with things. Some guns are more accurate with one type of ammunition than another.

If you're looking for a good, reasonably accurate 1911, a Springfield, Kimber or Colt would probably fit the bill. On average, they'd be pretty comparable, although one example of one may be more accurate than a particular example of another.

But if you're looking for ultimate accuracy, you'll need to do what Bullseye competitors do. You'll need to find a good, sound 1911 to start and then have it tuned and fitted for maximum accuracy. And that sort of custom work would exceed your budget.

 

[Travlin]

Question on Luger

Ash said - reply 7

"The Luger is not blow back and the barrel, while mated to the slide, moves during recoil. Therefore, it cannot be considered fixed as it is designed to move and most certainly does move."

This puzzles me. The Luger has a toggle and not a slide. I also thought the barrel was fixed to the frame and did not move at all after firing. Please explain.

 

[Gryffydd]

I know if built by me there would be no warrenty which could be the breaking point of that idea.

If you can build one properly you can fix one properly.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...The Luger has a toggle and not a slide. I also thought the barrel was fixed to the frame and did not move at all after firing. Please explain.

The Luger barrel is not fixed to the frame. It is fixed to what might be called an upper receiver, for want of a better term, which moves backward under recoil to unlock the toggle. See http://www.lugerforum.com/lugermain.html

 

[Ash]

The barrel is affixed to a slide that recoils rearward as mentioned above.

As to Astra's, the concept being that the barrels do not move during firing, and the Astra barrel does not.

Ash

 

[Travlin]

Thanks guys. Now I understand. The link made it very clear.

 

[30mag]

CZs are super-accurate (at least uncommonly accurate) if accuracy is what you are looking for. Also, they're cheap and pretty darn reliable.

 

[Shear_stress]

As someone else noted, a 1911 has a link controlled moving barrel.
But it only moves after the gun is unlocked, and the bullet is already long gone.
When it is in battery, there is no movement at all, period.

In the 1911, the barrel and slide (locked together) begin moving at the exact moment the bullet starts moving. This provides the inertia needed to work the action after bullet is gone.

The geometry of the action is timed such that the barrel doesn't unlock until the bullet has left the muzzle.

 

[benderx4]

My 9mm P7s are some of the most accurate guns I've ever shot. This fact made more remarkable by the fact that the barrel is only about 4.1" long. Combine the fixed barrel with great sights and a VERY good trigger, and you've got an amazinging accurate, but compact weapon.

 

[waldonbuddy]

Lots of good answers. I did almost buy a Wildey. Had the money order in hand when a friend of mine asked if I wanted to go to the gun shop before I mailed my money order for the Wildey.
Bad mistake. There was a S&W500 with a 4 inch barrel. Thats where my money order went and I walked out with the 500.
The CZ is still on my mind, but crap they just get more and more expensive. My cousin got two in Nov for $150 each, and I seen a guy at a local gun show that had one for $450!!!!!!! He said it was the grips that made it worth more {better plastic...lol}.
Also, with the CZ, while the ammo is extremely cheap for now, but its breaking a stupid rule I made about having too many different calibers. I guess I'm kinda like NATO in that respect.
Which takes me back to the 1911. As Ive been building things from cars {and I do mean everything from engines to bodywork to paint} to clock. I think the advantage is to be able to buy premium parts and still come out better than just buying one and paying $$$$ to have it customized.
After working on cars most of my life guns are easy to fix {at least to me} lots easier than some forign carburetors.....lol.
Anyways, that Korriphila HSP-701 is a beautiful work of art.........thanks for all of the replies. Also, I might have to look into the H&K since you all have had good things to say about them.
I still long for my DE that I bought back in the 80's when they first came out, which I had to sell when I got married................

 

[Rex B]

I have a Llama .380 which is blowback and the barrel tilts just like a 1911.
definitely not fixed.

 

[Odd Job]

Vektor CP1 (9mmP)

 

[Zoogster]

oh and dont forget the HK SP89....its a pistol

Yes that is what I was referring to in my first post when mentioning the mp5. However they are a $900 weapon that costs several thousand due to politics. Since they cannot legally be imported anymore, and are one of the few mp5 platforms to use for NFA goodies, the demand has caused the price to greatly exceed the value of a semi-auto $1,000 at best pistol. So I didn't mention it by name. Another mp5 clone type that is domesticly produced is a much better idea. But you have to find one produced intitially as a pistol.

 

[LancerMW]

the Makarov is the only fixxed barrel i own

 

[HisSoldier]

My Ruger MkIII Target model is the ultimate in rigidity. The front sight is attached to the barrel which is attached to the receiver which has the rear sight attached to it. The bolt movement is unrelated to the sights rigidity.

But the 1911 when fitted properly has a rigid setup too, people pick up an old 1911 and shake it and then shake their heads, like it's the barrel shaking around. Most times it's the grip safety that rattles.