What should US army do?

[HiroProX]

Now I'd have no problem with a return to the 1911, perhaps in something akin to a Colt Series 80 or a Para doublestack. But I'd only support it if the round used is 10mm.

 

[HerrWolfe]

deleted

 

[marksman13]

Yeah, HerrWolfe, that's the way to add something really intelligent and meaningful to the conversation. Good job.

 

[Mad Magyar]

What has been left out in the discussion is how well some of our Armed Forces personnel could actually shoot the 1911A1. There are documents galore detailing the Air Force /Army on how those that carried pistols could not hit anything! The Air Force actually went out and purchased a variety of .38sp revolvers....
They cited data that the ability to use the semi-auto .45 required extensive training, but they also recognized that given budget and time constraints that they would be in no position to furnish more than cursory handgun training. Not a good thing for the most powerful military in the world.
Of course, we can't ignore the "cocked-n-locked" debate...Massad Ayoob detailed accounts given to him by govt. officials of too many accidental discharges, aka. AD's. Anyway, I still say keep the 9mm in the same Beretta DA configuration; but give other makers a chance in the selection process...

 

[Zoogster]

But I'd only support it if the round used is 10mm.

I agree, I think the 10mm is the perfect candidate for the role of a military sidearm. It has as good of stopping power on an enemy without body armor as a .45, and far better if they are using cover or using body armor with appropriate ammo (AP pistol) which is very important since body armor is becoming the norm in combat. The combination of wide and slow makes a .45 about one of the worst penetrators in the game. You cannot gear an army with the assumption all it will fight is jihadists (which can be equiped with just about anything), and not formal troops, which will tend to have body armor as standard equipment. A 10mm can also carry about as much ammo as a 9mm platform which is very important, and something the .45 cannot manage.

In addition the 10mm has an extremely flat trajectory meaning it can even be employed in medium range engagements rather rapidly. So if within M4 ranges the rifle was to jam the 10mm could be quickly brought to bear without having to adjust for such things as an extremely arcing trajectory, while still retaining plenty of energy when it reached the target.

On a modern frame with proper springs it is also very manageable in rapid fire.
In addition the NATO allies would just love the fact that the standard handgun round was in metric.

So perhaps a 1911 platform in 10mm, or A Glock design made entirely of steel (polymer is not durable enough IMHO for grunts in combat) and lets not make the mistake that resulted in the FBI problems with the Delta Elite by putting .45 acp recoil springs in the thing and making everyone think it is not manageable enough because the slide is slamming around.

 

[marksman13]

Zoogster, I don't think that we had a problem with the .45 because it wasn't metric. I think it had to do with the fact that it wasn't a 9mm like the rest of the world was using. I do think the 10mm is a great candidate for those capable of shooting it. And, yes I know most anyone can be trained to handle the recoil of mild 10mm loads, but most of the military shoots pretty poorly with a 9mm because of a lack of training, so I don't think adding more recoil is the answer.

I think that the military should incorporate more firearms training in general into its agenda. I think that until our military changes it's bare minimum training stance, we better stick to something that is easy to shoot and easy to learn. I retract my vote for the Sig P220 because I was thinking of myself and my shooting experience when I gave that answer. I think the Berretta M9 may be the best bet for the current way of doing things. If we could change our ways, perhaps something similar to a CZ 97 in 10mm would be more suitable. I'm glad this thread has stayed civil and factual thus far for the most part. It has most entertaining.

 

[hnm201]

The U.S. Army should issue Glock 17s where handguns are needed and put more money into making better Indians.