What specifically makes PSA AKs subpar to imports?

Guns and Guitars

Guns and Guitars

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I read all that time that although PSA has built a solid AK, beginning with the GF3, they still lag behind imports. Many people go as far to refer to them as "hot garbage." I know other countries invest a lot in AK manufacturing, but what is specifically lacking in the newer PSAs? I don't shoot enough to worry about the arguments over having a chrome-lined barrel. The other general specs seem very similar.

I owned a Zastava PAP (can't remember which one) during the early 2010s. Despite everyone loving them now, people thought they were subpar guns from Century Arms back then. The PAP was heavy and a bit of a harsh shooter. I remember it slapping the tar out of my cheek. Then I bought a VZ2008 when they were $399. In my opinion, the VZ was better (lighter and easier to shoot) than the PAP, despite having uglier furniture. I sold the VZ for a very nice profit after buying a GF3. The GF3 is the most comfortable shooter of the three, and to my untrained eye, I can't find any major differences in quality.

I'm just curious and want to learn more about the details.
Thanks
 
So the first PSA AK's suffered from bolt tail deformation as well as some quicker than expected trunnion wear. They went from cast trunnions and bolts to forged in the GF3 and above and have been very reputable since as far as I know and my experiences with them.

Robski at AKOperators Union has done his 5,000 round test on each of the iterations. The first gens he liked well enough but was disappointed and couldn't recommend due to the wear that was seen as the round count got to I think 2,000+. The GF3 gens and above he really likes and he is somewhat of a AK snob when it comes to US made AK's but I think that PSA's Gen3 and above has made a convert in his thinking in regards to US made AK's.

He had very good reason to be suspect of US made AK's as Century Arms and especially InterOrdnance (dumpster fires) gave very bad reputations to US made AK's. Century Arms was mainly problematic due to the same reasons that the first Gen PSA's were, too much wear in too few of rounds, worst than PSA's first Gen's if I recall correctly. InterOrdnance AK's are just simply dumpster fires and should be avoided like the plague.

The generations of the PSA AK as I understand it is as follows:

Gen1, cast front trunnion, bolt and carrier, phosphate barrel, 1:10 twist
Gen2, billet front trunnion bolt and carrier, nitrided barrel, 1:10 twist
Gen3, hammer forged front trunnion, bolt and carrier, nitrided 4150CMV barrel, 1:9.5 twist
Gen4, hammer forged internals like Gen3 but front trunnion upgraded to 4340AQ forged steel, PSA CHF/CL barrel, 1:9.5 twist
Gen5, same internals as Gen4, FN CHF/CL Machine Gun steel barrel, 1:9.5 twist, ALG AKT Enhanced Trigger

I wouldn't even consider any other AK's at this point unless we are talking Arsenal, Saiga (and I still would likely pick a PSA due to cost) or something for historical purposes. The PSA Gen3 and above are very nicely made, the quality of the machining and accuracy compared to combloc units aren't even comparable. But that's just me and I'm far from an AK expert.

A lot of the disdain for US made AK's along with the promotion of combloc AK's has got some history of truth but with a healthy dash of combloc mystique.
 
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PSA AKs are fine but I'd recommend buying one new as their early ones had issues and they improved considerably over a short time. And this is coming from someone who owns a WASR, AK63DS, Saiga and Zastava M90PS.
As mentioned, there were a LOT of bad domestic made AKs but some just deem anything not imported is junk. That's not true.
AK Operator's Union is hands down the best source for durability with new AK, no one else does a 5k test. If Robski says it's good, it's good.
 
Guns and Guitars said:
I read all that time that although PSA has built a solid AK, beginning with the GF3, they still lag behind imports. Many people go as far to refer to them as "hot garbage." I know other countries invest a lot in AK manufacturing, but what is specifically lacking in the newer PSAs? I don't shoot enough to worry about the arguments over having a chrome-lined barrel. The other general specs seem very similar.

I owned a Zastava PAP (can't remember which one) during the early 2010s. Despite everyone loving them now, people thought they were subpar guns from Century Arms back then. The PAP was heavy and a bit of a harsh shooter. I remember it slapping the tar out of my cheek. Then I bought a VZ2008 when they were $399. In my opinion, the VZ was better (lighter and easier to shoot) than the PAP, despite having uglier furniture. I sold the VZ for a very nice profit after buying a GF3. The GF3 is the most comfortable shooter of the three, and to my untrained eye, I can't find any major differences in quality.

I'm just curious and want to learn more about the details.
Thanks
Click to expand...

I'm glad you asked. I also have the VZ2008, and I've really liked it. I've been told that it must be crap because it is a CAI product, but I'm not sure why.

Those PSA AKs have gotten my attention recently, and I've been seriously thinking about picking one up. I'm just not in enough fanboy groups to hear the details on performance.
 
21H40 said:
I'm glad you asked. I also have the VZ2008, and I've really liked it. I've been told that it must be crap because it is a CAI product, but I'm not sure why.

Those PSA AKs have gotten my attention recently, and I've been seriously thinking about picking one up. I'm just not in enough fanboy groups to hear the details on performance.
Click to expand...
The US receiver is cast on the vz2008, but otherwise it is a vz58 parts kit, less the bbl. I’ve owned a few, and never had an issue. The vz2008 and the Polish 1960 milled AK, are the only century built rifles I would own! That said, I do prefer the CSA vz58 over any AK that I own.
 
I don't think that the current generation of PSA AKs are in any way inferior to foreign built AKs. PSA is constantly improving their products and their QC continues to improve. You will get far superior customer service from PSA than you will from a foreign manufacturer. There are a lot of positive reviews of PSA on YouTube you can look at to support what Robski has put out. Military Arms Channel recently did a factory tour that is very informative. If you are not a purist or a collector and just looking for a good gun to shoot and have fun PSA is a great option.
 
Buy an old SLR95, and a PSA and shoot them side by side for awhile. Take them apart, clean them and look at the parts. Then just see what YOU think.
 
The AK market has changed dramatically every decade in recent years.

AK information today is very different than conventional wisdom from the 90's, 00's, '10s.

Zastava ZPAPs are very different than the imported PAPs of old. PSA is very different than their early guns. WASRs have varying quality depending on the "batch". Saiga's used to be cheap. Chinese AKs were considered junk.

Don't take dated advice with AKs because the market has changed and wisdom surrounding it is changing fast (right or wrong).

PSA AK are good to go. New ZPAP are good to go. Kalash USA has some work to do.
 
Psa is the best us made ak, and are good for what they are. There is no comparison to good imports though as good as they are, they just don't have the long history/decades of experience of making military graded guns actually used in combat. Also, buy the imports while you can, psa will still be around making guns after all the imports are banned.

Best new production AK's you can buy are made by Arsenal, FB Random, Zastava, WBP and Cugir. Galil makes a good rifle to, not quite AK, but really good.
 
So which PSAK?
I know some things like barrel length and furniture are personal preference.
What about the 100 series vs. GF5?

I understand the PSA version of the 100's are not quite replicas because they use the older style bolt. Whereas the Russian 100 series aren't imported, the Kalashnikov USA KR series is a closer replica. But the PSA's have the new gas block and maybe the biggest difference between the two PSA series is the muzzle device?

I've heard the muzzle device can make a big difference in the felt recoil and muzzle rise vs. the Soviet style muzzle that looks like it was cut off with a giant pair of diagonal pliers. I normally hate loudeners, but the AK seems like one of the few places they belong.

And what about price? It looks like PSAK is centered around $1000 and they're in stock. Are brands like Arsenal, Rifle Dynamics, Zastava less than twice that? and can new ones be had at all?
 
westernrover said:
So which PSAK?
I know some things like barrel length and furniture are personal preference.
What about the 100 series vs. GF5?

I understand the PSA version of the 100's are not quite replicas because they use the older style bolt. Whereas the Russian 100 series aren't imported, the Kalashnikov USA KR series is a closer replica. But the PSA's have the new gas block and maybe the biggest difference between the two PSA series is the muzzle device?

I've heard the muzzle device can make a big difference in the felt recoil and muzzle rise vs. the Soviet style muzzle that looks like it was cut off with a giant pair of diagonal pliers. I normally hate loudeners, but the AK seems like one of the few places they belong.

And what about price? It looks like PSAK is centered around $1000 and they're in stock. Are brands like Arsenal, Rifle Dynamics, Zastava less than twice that? and can new ones be had at all?
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You can get a new production Zastava for $1,000 or even a little less. You can get a Cugir wasr for less than $800. I would advise staying away from Rifle Dynamics. They are nothing more than glorified kit builds. Not bad rifles, but not worth half what is charged. Arsenal Sam7 is a really good rifle, about the best new production milled, but they are over priced.
 
How come nobody ever talks about Fox (Beryl)? I've shot a few and they seemed to be excellent, although I haven't done a 5k round test. IMHO, having built a few AKs, I think the Polish AKs in general, Fox/Beryl and Radom are pretty nice. The Yugo Zastavas too are so good for the money. I have zero experience with PSA AKs but I have a lot of their AR stuff and really like them. Sounds like they got their act together finally on AKs but unless the PSAs are a lot less, I would spend my money on a Zastava or Fox.

https://atlanticfirearms.com/wbp-fox-ak47-rifle-classic
 
It can depend on which Generation PSA.

A friend bought either a brand-new Gen 3 or 4 (?), and had to replace the firing pin, and modify either the mag well or magazine.

This is very rarely needed on the imported varieties.

Capybara: Many people either don't bother reading AKfiles, remaining unaware about the Fox or Beryl....or they keep quiet :cool: about these superb rifles as they slowly save up their cash, waiting for Atlantic Firearms to receive and prepare the next imported shipment - hoping to see an email Notice before the guns literally Sell Out, hours later.

Digital "Quiet Poker Faces" (so to speak), online.;)

$$ The current (today's), ------lowest prices-----of Costly .308 ammo is probably diverting many potential first-time buyers (two of them are friends in their 50s) away from both PTR-91s, M1As and FALs---- into rifles chambered in both 7.62x39 and .223. There is a huge glut of those .308 rifles = a cool, soft market for sellers. Obviously ammo went up and Will keep increasing, but .35/round vs. .70/round (.308)...before tax and shipping.
 
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Capybara said:
How come nobody ever talks about Fox (Beryl)? I've shot a few and they seemed to be excellent, although I haven't done a 5k round test. IMHO, having built a few AKs, I think the Polish AKs in general, Fox/Beryl and Radom are pretty nice. The Yugo Zastavas too are so good for the money. I have zero experience with PSA AKs but I have a lot of their AR stuff and really like them. Sounds like they got their act together finally on AKs but unless the PSAs are a lot less, I would spend my money on a Zastava or Fox.

https://atlanticfirearms.com/wbp-fox-ak47-rifle-classic
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WBP and FB Radom are top notch. I believe WBP uses barrels made by Radom in some of their models so there is some handshaking going on between those two. As far as stamped receivers go, WBP and Radom are probably the best you can get current/new production wise. I know WBP makes a milled receiver model but imo, Arsenal is king of that hill. I don't have a problem with PSA ak's either, but I prefer imports at the price they charge. Why pay 1k for an American made ak when someone can have a good quality import for the same price.
 
The AK Files isn’t what it used to be. They sound like a bunch of prepubescent boys that never left the comfort of their parents basement at the ripe age of 50, with a receding hairline and mayonnaise tan. With their shelves filled with dungeon and dragons board games and combloc parts kits scattered around their room and an Alex Jones pinup above their bed.
 
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BreechFace said:
The AK Files isn’t what it used to be. They sound like a bunch of prepubescent boys that never left the comfort of their parents basement at the ripe age of 50, with a receding hairline and mayonnaise tan. With their shelves filled with dungeon and dragons board games and combloc parts kits scattered around their room and an Alex Jones pinup above their bed.
Click to expand...
So you got ran out of there? Lol!
 
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