What to do with the recoil sensitive?

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I was talking the other day with someone who feels that the AR15 "kicks" too much. He was a young guy...probably 14-15 and not particularly stout by any means; but the AR15 should be well within the realm of comfortable for him.

I have the feeling that the "kick" was mostly psychological as his knowledge of guns was minimal and the AR had been his first shooting experience (borrowing a friends).

I would normally just think the kid needs to get over it and move on; but it is about the third or fourth time I've noticed it with a shooter and an AR15 and I just got an email expressing a similar sentiment. Invariably, the people who find the AR intimidating are new shooters, though not always small in stature.

I know the AR15 is about as far from a hard recoiling rifle as you can get. Heck, I've rested my face against the stock to calm the nervousness of new shooters; but how do you train somebody who feels that an AR "kicks"? Anybody have some good pointers?

 

[WhiteKnight]

I'll tell you what the problem is - it's kids these days. Darn kids sit around on a computer or in front of the TV all day long munching on junk food and wonder why they're weak. Compare kids nowadays to the hunting, fishing, crazy kids from the '40s and '50s, and you'll see the reason - we're turning into wimps!

 

[ARperson]

I agree: I think it is in their head.

Which means the only thing you can do is start small and work upward.

Or, my evil twin thinks you sit them down with an 8mm Mauser or some other big mule kicker, let them fire off one shot, and then hand them the AR. Chances are they won't think it's got such awful recoil anymore.

 

[benEzra]

Have him wear GOOD foam earplugs AND earmuffs. A surprising amount of perceived recoil that new shooters complain about (particularly from a .223) is actually a psychological reaction to the noise of the shot, and an AR is definitely loud (especially if you have a 16" barrel). (I particularly like the pink foam plugs you can get at Wal-Mart.)

Put a folded towel between him and the stock.

Also, they make a gadget that looks like a .223 round that you insert a .22LR round inside, allowing you to shoot .22LR in .223 without an expensive conversion kit. (May be overkill, though.)

Or let him shoot a .22LR a bit to gain some confidence and then let him try the AR again.

 

[Jaywalker]

Maybe it isn't recoil at all that they're feeling; maybe it's "muzzle blast." Fired from a short barrel, the 5.56 has significant noise and flame effect. Solution? Introduce them to a rifle with a longer barrel and a .223 loading.

Jaywalker

 

[Rupestris]

I agree with BenEzra, Hearing protection can help aliviate the precieved recoil.
As for todays kids, I must have got a good one. While he does spend time with his PS2, my son started shooting at 13 and hasn't turned down an offer to shoot anything offered. Including .308, 30-30, AR's, and 1911's. In fact, he took a turkey this past spring with an 1100 with a #5, 3" magnum 12 ga.
If more parents would get their kids out to the range, woods or water instead of pacifying them with video games, DVD's, and cheetos the future of our outdoor sports might look a little brighter.

 

[Steve Smith]

By the time I was a skinny 14 year old I was shooting 12 gauges occasionally (and loving it) a .30-30 as much as I could afford to, and a .410 shotty constantly. Recoil control was self-taught. My suggestion would be have the boy go out into the woods with an adult and a somewhat harder kicking gun (with shorter range)...like a .410 shotgun....and let him figure it out for himself. A day's worth of dove hunting might do the trick.



Then that "mean 'ol" AR won't seem so bad.

 

[Suomipoika]

.22lr or an airgun would be a good choice to start shooting. I started my hobby with my dads .22lr Toz at the age of 5. Give him a .22lr and when he gets more familiar with weapons give the AR.

 

[ny32182]

I agree with the camp that says to sit him down with a 30-06 his first time out.

The hearing protection suggestion is a very good one too. Get him some good muffs if he didn't have them already, and he'll likely enjoy the entire experience a lot more.

 

[Steve Smith]

Wait, I must clarify my post and somwhat disagree with TTbadboy. Don't "sit him down" but rather let him shoot a slightly heavier recoiling gun from a standing postition. Let his body absorb the recoil naturally.


I don't even enjoy shooting larger calibers from the bench, I'm sure that boy wouldn't.

One more thing, I think a truckload of .22 RF would do wonders for him too.

 

[Prof]

I agree with Steve. Have him shoot standing. I never shoot my .30-.30 carbines from the bench because I don't like the recoil. I always shoot them standing up.

"it's kids these days"

Funny, that's exactly what my Dad said about my generation (I'm 57)!

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I started my stepsons off with heavy .22 bolt actions initially and brought them up to a point where, at ages 12 and 8 they were shooting my AR and Swedish Mausers. Now they regularly grab up one of the M-N M44's and a double handfull of 200 grain 7.62x54R 'because they like the way it rocks!'.
They were shooting the FAL off the bench this weekend.

Recoil is very subjective. Try getting the best non-electronic muffs you can find, give him a wearable recoil pad and if possible, something without a muzzle device to minimize the blast, because a big part of perceived recoil is noise to new shooters.

Position is a big factor, too. Don't have him shooting prone or straight off the bench. He should be big enough at 14 to hold up a smallbore from a standing position. Get his feet in the right spot, move his arms out, and show him how to grab ahold.

Start small and work up.

Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[larryw]

A while back, a friend was showing a 12 year old how to shoot his AR at our club. The boy was having a heck of a time with it and obviously not enjoying the process; severe flinch and saying it hurt. After trying everything else, he borrowed a set of muffs to go over the plugs. Problem solved and the boy had an absolute blast from then on out.

Notice how the body flinches with loud noises? Couple that with a sudden jab in the shoulder, even a mild one, and the mind could trick you into thinking the recoil is the problem when actually it's the noise. And remember, children's hearing is more acute than an adults, what bothers them may not be a problem for you or me.

IMO, and not really guessing here: I suggest doubling up on ear protection, rolling a towel up and putting that behind the butt and letting him go at it. Once he regains some confidence, remove the towel and have him shoot again. After he does that, he'll understand that the gun's kick wasn't the problem and will probably be more willing to try bigger and better things.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Training.

 

[raz-0]

I'll go with the crowd suggesting better hearing protection. If it has a muzzle brake, double that recommendation.

 

[Suomipoika]

I still suggest the .22lr, low noise (no hearing protection is needed with rifle) and recoil is so soft.
It's easier to learn, when you don't have to think recoil or noise, only the triggering and hitting the target.

 

[cratz2]

I've heard people say they didn't like the spring sound or the plastic-ish feel of ARs but I honestly can't think of a time when someone said that an AR15 kicked too much... I mean, I'm sure some of us are jaded by shooting larger calibers quite a bit but does an semi-auto AR15 really kick any more than a Chipmunk-sized bolt action 22LR?

 

[4v50 Gary]

The 223 is gentle as a kitten. Heck, my nephew got his Boy Scout marksmanship merit badge shooting my brother's Rem. 700 VSS in .223. I think he was 13 at the time and skinny as rail. The AR should pose even less of a challenge for the kid you have in mind.

 

[ShaiVong]

I just drink up the recoil from the enfield, heck i shoot it sometimes just for the kick!

I still have to keep myself from flinching when i shoot the AR though; definately noise.

I know this may sound wimpy, but i developed a huge flinch from 22mags and 30-30's when I was young, mostly because of the loud report. Double up that hearing protection on a new shooter so they can get ingrained with "this may startle you, but it doesnt hurt ". Then let them gain the mental concentration of following through with a shot using normal hearing protection.

I would advise against starting them out with a 30.06 or 12ga or something.. It's just going to be harder for them to overcome the initial bad reactions later.

Walk before you crawl.

 

[wanderinwalker]

I think cratz2 is onto something with the spring noise in the AR. It IS obnoxious (at least to me, but I cope) and could be affecting the perception of recoil. I also recommend plugs and muffs, as it is what I use when shooting in Highpower events (in the pits I only use one or the other).

 

[chetrogers]

When i was younger i always would look for an opertunity to shoot big guns.To t his day the bigger the recoil the bigger the smile on my face .

 

[Dave R]

Have him shoot an exercise instead of at paper. i.e. set out multiple targets and see how many he can hit in a short time, etc.

Cooper says the way to deal with recoil is to ignore it. When we're hunting, its easy to ignore it because we're focused on the shot. When we're shooting clays or skeet, its easy to ignore it because we're focused on the target.

Doing an exercise would get his mind off the recoil and on to the shooting.

BTW, might try a different rifle, too. To me, the stupid sproiiiing of the AR magnifies the recoil affect. I know, its all in my head

 

[artherd]

The first gun I ever shot was a .22lr, but later that day the second gun I shot was a .30-06 bolt rifle.

I was 12.

I guess I like recoil, thought all 89lbs of me felt it allright, it didn't turn me off.

First gun I ever bought for myself was a .30-06 as well, though a semi-auto. 9lbs *with* scope. I can shoot it all day, rapid fire if I'm feeling saucy, hundreds of rounds, with absolutely no discomfort at all <but a huge grin on my face!>.

Much of recoil is noise, and even more is just tension from *expecting* a recoil! As others have said, the key is to relax (a bit) and not tense up. Let it push into you, almost like Drunken Boxing.


Start him off on a .22LR. After firing my friend's M38 carbine, I literally thought the Marlin .22 had misfired. I actually checked the case, but it was steaming and the lead was gone. Humph, had me fooled.

 

[rdbrowning]

I agree that the spring sound may be the real problem. I've been shooting for 40 years or so but when I first shot my friends AR I jumped. It sounded like the damn thing was coming apart! I also agree with the suggestions for good hearing protection and distraction. Make the shooting a game to give his mind something else to think about. You may also want to try a 223 bolt action to get rid of the cycling of the action, simple actions can be less intimidating.

Best of luck.

 

[Moparmike]

Noise is a significant factor. My first pistol (and still only pistol) was a 10mm. I took it to an indoor range, with their surplus used muff's. Horrible experience. I only shot 9 rounds before I wanted no more of it.

I went to the woods at my mom's house w/ just earplugs. Loved it.

Or, my evil twin thinks you sit them down with an 8mm Mauser or some other big mule kicker,

Hmm, I must be a glutton for punishment. My first gun was an 8mm, second was a 12ga, and third was a 10mm. Maybe I should consider a .22.