What Type Of Deer Slug?

[Riverrat66]

I switched over to Lightfield Hybred Exp Maximum Expansion slugs when I bought my Benelli M1 Super 90 12ga. autoloader shotgun 2 years ago on the recommendation of the salesman. This gun loves these slugs, I'm getting 1" groups at 100 yards, sometimes key-holing many shots.
My question is, when I shot my buck this season(at 40 yds.), the slug went right through the deer and clipped a tree behind him! I never had this happen to me before. The deer jumped about 2' and ran for 50 yards and collapsed. This is also the first time that I've never dropped a deer in his tracks. When I opened up the deer, his heart was 3/4 blown away! Shouldn't this Lightfield Hybred Exp slug expanded better and not gone straight through the deer? I used to use Federal Super Slugs in my 35 year old Mossberg 500 pump with C-lect choke and always had the deer fall at the spot that I shot him.
I think I need to change the type of slugs that I'm using. What do you guys think? I've got plenty of time to try different brands of slugs because deer season ends on Tuesday.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[mete]

Never heard of Lightfield slugs.I like the round ,especially handgun to exit ,since exit holes give a nice blood trail. There's no surprise that a deer runs, and 50yds is typical for lung shots ,in my experience. The term 'key-holing ' means that the projectile is tumbling,which is bad for accuracy .I don't think you mean that. In the Catskill Mtns I hunt with rifle or handgun, but I do have a M1 90. Is yours rifled ? I assume it is with that type of group.1" groups, with holes touching is called a "clover leaf" pattern. When you're shooting a .729" slug you don't need expansion !!!!! 1" groups ??stick with that ammo !!

 

[Kingcreek]

"The deer jumped about 2' and ran for 50 yards and collapsed. This is also the first time that I've never dropped a deer in his tracks. When I opened up the deer, his heart was 3/4 blown away! Shouldn't this Lightfield Hybred Exp slug expanded better and not gone straight through the deer? "
My questions to you:
How much deader did you want him?
How many deer (give us a number) have you "dropped in thier tracks"?
I'm not picking on you but I have killed a few of truckloads of deer (and other game) with rifle, shogun, and bow. Some very well shot critters went as far as 50 yards. the ones that dropped where I shot them were usually hit higher ie spine or shoulders were heavily damaged, etc. A deer shot thru the heart with a 12 g slug is a dead deer.
A 1" group at 100 yards is splendid and the slug did its job. If you've got a gripe, I don't get it.

 

[mete]

www.lightfieldslugs.com

 

[Riverrat66]

If you've got a gripe, I don't get it.

I really don't have a gripe. I was just surprised that the slug went thru the deer. That was the first time that ever happened to me. I have shot 16 deer in my life, all falling where I shot them. This is the first time that I have ever had to track a deer. Believe me, I'm not bragging. I was just wondering why the slug went through the deer.

A 1" group at 100 yards is splendid and the slug did its job.

I agree. That's why I used these slugs, because of their accuracy.

The term 'key-holing ' means that the projectile is tumbling,which is bad for accuracy .I don't think you mean that.

Bad choice of words. You are correct. I should have said "clover leaf". Yes my barrel is rifled. And this Benelli M1 Super 90 shotgun is without a doubt the best shotgun I have ever owned or used.

 

[Kingcreek]

If 50 yards is "tracking" a deer and the 12 guage slug went Through both sides of the the deer, you can't ask for much more than that.
another question might be: how much more would you expect from a rifle?
If you can match rifle performance or better with a shotgun, you have it figured out.
I repeat myself, How much deader do you want it?

 

[mnrivrat]

I've seen a good share of deer take a slug and keep going for longer than I thought possible. I don't think it is too uncommon.

Spine shots are typically drop dead where they are , but lung, and heart shots that don't include bone trauma seem less likely to stop them in their tracks.

And Kingcreek - I too want them dead where they stand ! That's how much deader I want them .

 

[Dave McCracken]

I've been inserting slugs into deer for a few decades. Out of maybe 35, two have dropped in their tracks, both spined.

Recovery distances on the others range from 10-60 yards. Time after impact until down has only been a few seconds.

Until I started hunting the Easter Shore, I held behind the shoulder to save the meat. Now, I hold on the center of the shoulder to shorten the trailing. Where I now hunt has much water and it's easier to lose them.

!2 gauge slugs are all effective if placed properly. The lower velocities than rifle ammo means less hydrostatic shock and smaller temporary wound channels. This is non consequential, a quick and humane death follows though not an instant turnoff.

I think the Lightfield mentioned did its job....

 

[Riverrat66]

Whoa boys! I'm the FNG around here. All I wanted was your opinion on these Lightfield Hybred Exp Maximum Expansion slugs! .

Kingcreek says:
If 50 yards is "tracking" a deer and the 12 gauge slug went Through both sides of the the deer, you can't ask for much more than that.
another question might be: how much more would you expect from a rifle?
If you can match rifle performance or better with a shotgun, you have it figured out.
I repeat myself, How much deader do you want it?

Well, I'm beginning to feel that I must apologize because I've never had to "track" a deer for hours like some. Like I said I'm not bragging but every deer that I have shot (17 including this latest one) until this one has fallen in his tracks, with one shot, I might add. Thanks to my military training and continued interest in the shooting sports, I'm still a excellent shot with just about any type of firearm. I've never gut shot or ass shot a deer. I've never shot at a running deer. I always manage to make him stop for a brief second (whistle or something). The longest shot I have ever taken at a deer is about 70 yards.

And how much deader do I want that deer? Just like I'm accustomed to "dead in their tracks"!

mnrivrat
And Kingcreek - I too want them dead where they stand ! That's how much deader I want them .

Thanks mnrivrat. It makes the dragging process a lot shorter.

Dave McCracken
I think the Lightfield mentioned did its job....

Thanks Dave. That's all I was looking for was someone's opinion/assessment of the Lightfield slug. Being the new guy on the block I didn't realize that I have to be careful how I word things when I make a post.

 

[Kingcreek]

Riverrat,
Relax, you're fine and I should apologise.
I've killed my share of game and in my experience, they seldom die where they were standing when shot-maybe 20% as I think about it. Our houshold consumes an average of 5 per year, deer, antelope, and sometimes an elk.
I've killed 4 whitetails so far this year. The last one dressed out at 212# shot thru the heart and went 30 yards. I don't spend alot of time tracking, they usually drop within sight.
In my experience, most 12g slugs are pass-thrus at the ranges you mention. Often times the 20g slugs do not.
I would be very happy with the performance you are getting with the lightfields both in accuracy and terminal results.

 

[TNT]

The slug did it's job perfectly. The deer just didn't know it was dead yet.

 

[Riverrat66]

Kingcreek,
I'm cool. Your location says rural IL. Is that Illinois?

an average of 5 per year, deer, antelope, and sometimes an elk.

It sounds like a hunters paradise to me. How many whitetails are you allowed to take each year?

I've killed 4 whitetails so far this year. The last one dressed out at 212#

That is a very large deer. It must have gone, what 230#,235# on the hoof? How many points was it? I know some guys that go to Illinois each year whitetail hunting with great results. Is that shotgun hunting or rifle?

I would be very happy with the performance you are getting with the lightfields both in accuracy and terminal results.

I am very happy with the results of the Lightfield slugs. I just didn't know if I should have expected the slug to expand better thus not exiting the deer. But the more I think about it. Where I hit the deer(a heart shot) there was nothing to stop the slug from going straight thru. No bones to speak of, only the rib cage. The heart was nearly completely gone. Like one other gentleman said, the deer just didn't know it was dead. In the few seconds it took to bleed out it ran 50 yards and it did drop within sight. So technically, it did drop in it's tracks! Just not the same ones I shot it in.

 

[Kingcreek]

"Your location says rural IL. Is that Illinois?"
Yup. but I'm 3 hours away from that crooked city of Chicago.
We have no antelope or elk, for those I travel west.
Whitetail deer are fat and plentiful, to the point of being pesty. Crop damage in some areas. Limit is 2 antlered deer per year, archery season is 3.5 months long and the firearm season is shotgun, muzzleloader, and/or pistol and it has just been expanded. No limit on archery killed does or yearling fawns. My sister called and said she killed a 140# doe today.
the 212# buck was a 3.5 year old, only 8pt but wide rack with alot of mass. Last 2 years I hunted a big buck but the neighbor killed him (just over the fence- may he rot in heck) a 10 pointer that weighed 274 field dressed. a couple 300 pounders have been taken this year, one a massive 12 pointer was killed during the automobile season with a Dodge Caravan. Oh yea, forget to mention the automobile season never closes here in IL.

 

[Riverrat66]

Last 2 years I hunted a big buck but the neighbor killed him (just over the fence- may he rot in heck) a 10 pointer.

I know exactly how you feel. Two years ago I watched a massive 12pt. buck on my property all summer. On opening day I let 12 deer pass by waiting for this monster but did not see him. Later in the day I found him lying in the woods on the corner of my land not 30' from the road. He had been hit by a car and the SOB who hit him cut his head off and left him lying there! I was sick. He had been there for at least 3 days, so said my neighbor.

In Western New York, we're allowed 1 antlered deer with shotgun (or pistol) w/3" antlers or more, 1 anterless deer if you apply for and get a special permit, with an Archery license you can take one deer of either sex. Same with a muzzle loader. In other parts of the state, like up north in the Adirondacks, the hunting season and limits are all together different and you can use rifles. A Sportman's license, which includes small game hunting, big game hunting(deer & bear) & fishing, costs $65.00, I think. I get mine for $5.00 because I'm a 100% disabled veteran. The spring/fall turkey permit costs $5.00 extra. I'm not sure what the duck stamp costs because I haven't done any duck or goose hunting in many years.

My sister called and said she killed a 140# doe today.

Geeze, my little six point buck only weighed 135#. Well, it's meat in the freezer and it was the only buck I saw all week long. Conditions were lousy. Lots of doe's but I don't shoot them.

 

[charby]

"Lots of doe's but I don't shoot them."

Why not? Harvest those baby factories too, plus they taste better than a buck in the rut anyways. Here in Iowa they prefer for us to shoot a doe over a buck.

I have shot more deer than I can remember, I am 30 yrs old but I have been fortunate to live in part of Iowa that have been deer rich since I started hunting them. Now it seems that you can go any where in Iowa without seeing a deer or several dozen. Anymore if you plan it right you can shoot up to 8 deer a fall more if your a landowner.

I have only dropped 2 deer in their tracks, this years doe by shotgun I was shooting up hill at 30 paces and shot a little high and it was a spinal shot. 5 Years ago I shot a little button buck in the shoulder with a .50 patch and ball with 90 grns of pyrodex. Knocked him right on his butt, range was about 25 yrds or so.

Most of my deer I have shot have been under 30 yrds because for shotgun hunting I use a smoothbore with a bead. My slugs are whatever is on sale that day at walmart. I buy 2 15 round boxes, shoot one at the range to make sure I hit a paper plate at 50 yrd and the other for hunting season. I normally end up with 12-14 slugs at the end of season. I am a firm believer in one shot kills on deer. I have never had to track a deer more than 50yrds from where I had shot it too. Most of my deer have been heart and/or lung shots.

I have been contemplating purchasing a shotgun specifically for deer hunting, rifled barrel, scope and all that jazz, but I still like to say I shoot my deer with a bead and smooth bore.

Charby

 

[sm]

Don't ask me.
I don't get the memo's about newfangled stuff. I have always used the plain jane hollow pt lead slugs...like Fed or Win, out of smoothbore with a front bead or front bead with mid bead.

I try to shoot like Dave mentioned...hate chasing the darn things.

Old boy with a new knee needed meat he said. Couldn't hunt. All I had was my 1911 on my visit to see him. He was overrun with does. All this black farm hand had was single shot shotguns..and no slugs for the 12 or 20 ( I rememedied that later). I dug around in the coffee can he had..found a couple of slugs and went out back and popped the first one with a .410 slug. Had to walk about 20 steps. The second one I had to use my CCW on. The primer were bad on the other slug. Hey if doe #2 wants to run right by me on the way...not my problem. At 15 steps and a neck shot DRT. all you have to do is kneel and wait for the doe to come out from behind a tree...230 grainers work.

Called a neighbor and dressed out some meat for the family. *shrug*

Maybe I should try something newer than what I do...then again I am on "Probation Reprobate" status around here.

 

[M Jager]

As a general rule, a 12 gauge slug doesn't stop in a deer. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.
From your description of the damage I wouldn't switch slugs. Unless you hit the shoulder or spine they don't normally drop in their tracks. Sometimes they just mill around and fall over, sometimes they run. 50 yards is no biggie. I too like them to drop in there tracks but sometimes they don't cooperate like that. Got a good laugh at my buddy this year. He shot a deer with Winnie Patinum tips and was complaining that it ran too far. Turns out he was upset because the deer ran all of 30 yards. I just laughed.
I've lost count of how many deer I've seen killed over the last 9 years. I know I have shot around 20 myself so the number is pretty high. Maybe 5 made it out of my direct line of sight and a couple make it over a hundred yards. Most of those were shot with the old BRI sabots or with a handgun.

 

[WhiteKnight]

As a general rule, a 12 gauge slug doesn't stop in a deer.

Is this due to the lack of hydrostatic shock? Or something else entirely?

 

[Riverrat66]

I started this thread only because I was wondering why my deer slug had passed thru the deer, because I had never had that happen to me before. Well, I'm completely satisfied with the replies that I've received. I mentioned that in all my years of hunting that I had shot 17 deer and all but one had fallen in their tracks, exactly where I had shot them. And the one that didn't ran only 50 yards and collapsed within sight. Impossible no, lucky, maybe, but the truth, absolutely!

Now someone says,

As a general rule, a 12 gauge slug doesn't stop in a deer.

and I say What? Are you kidding? If a 12ga. slug won't stop a deer, what will and what do you base your statement on, fact or fiction?

 

[45Badger]

He said won't stop "IN" a deer.

Anyway, I've been using Lightfield sabots for @ 6 years. Absolutely love them. Very accurate in any rifled barrel I put them through. Some times they stay in the deer, but mostly make a big hole on both sides.

 

[Wedge]

sm,
I too like using the plain jane foster style slugs. Whatever is cheapest I stock up on. I use them in a rifled barrel and get decent accuracy...then I get to workout my forearms when I clean the lead out of the barrel! From your suggestion I use some shooter's choice followed by some copper chore boy scrubber around a 10 gauge brush and it works great! Thanks again!

Riverrat,
congratulations! I also live in Western New York and saw nothing this year and neither did any of my hunting buddies. It was pretty tough hunting this season.

 

[M Jager]

whiteknight,
Slugs are big and heavy, once they get going they are hard to stop. Deer aren't that big so normally they don't stop. Take this for example. You get hit by a baseball going 100 miles an hour. (baseball represents a high velocity rifle bullet at high speed). Yes it might kill you, but its not going to physcally knock you down and your body will stop the balls momentum. Now imagine getting hit with a bowling ball at 50 mph (slug at lower velocity). Not only is it going to knock you flat but it will prob keep going. Maybe a bad comparison but its the best I could come up with off hand.
riverrat,
I stated that a deer slug isn't likely to stay in a deer. Best estimate offhand, is maybe one in 10-15 stay in for random slug types and shot placement. Its amazing that you've had so many slugs in a row staying in the deer, I don't doubt it or anything, but it is amazing. 12 gauge slugs will deffinetely kill a deer. 20 gauges too. I have to laugh every time I hear someone say a 20 gauge is too light for deer. If they are then don't tell my sister or the deer that live around here cause she can pile them up when she wants to.
Take Care,
Matt

 

[erik the bold]

Look in the hunting section (such as here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=112083) for evidence of how good a "knock-down" slugs are for deer. This one had no throat after a neck shot.

The Lightfield EXP's are traveling at about 1460 ft/sec, so you have a 1-1/4 oz projectile traveling at around mach 1.3 (990 mi/hr). Wouldn't that equate to that bowling ball traveling at 12,697 miles/hour ???

 

[WhiteKnight]

He said won't stop "IN" a deer.

I guess I should slow when I read posts. Duh me.

 

[Riverrat66]

He said won't stop "IN" a deer.

Well, I miss read the post too. So I should apologize also.

I've been using Lightfield sabots for @ 6 years. Absolutely love them. Very accurate in any rifled barrel

And I agree about the Lightfield slugs.

I also live in Western New York and It was pretty tough hunting this season.

Yes it was indeed!

Wedge,
There's lots of snow down where I hunt now. Too little too late! :banghead: