what type of handgun design is better in .45?
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Black Majik
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Totally subjective topic.
Some like 1911s, others don't. Some take the job better than a 1911, others don't.
But nothing's as customizable as a 1911 platform. Race gun, "tactical" type guns with the black finish and fixed sights, bullseye shooting, you can convert a 1911 to fill almost any and every niche out there.
I chose 1911 since that's what I enjoy most in .45 ACP.
Some like 1911s, others don't. Some take the job better than a 1911, others don't.
But nothing's as customizable as a 1911 platform. Race gun, "tactical" type guns with the black finish and fixed sights, bullseye shooting, you can convert a 1911 to fill almost any and every niche out there.
I chose 1911 since that's what I enjoy most in .45 ACP.
Snapping Twig
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I've got a Sig P 220 (W. German) and a Kimber Custom CDP II.
I like them equally for different reasons.
If I had only one of them, I'd go for the 1911 as it's MUCH more accurate due to the trigger. Others may not have this issue.
The Sig feeds anything and is compact and easy to disassemble for service with much thought given to it's main use - military and police in cold weather.
I trained with the Gunsite system and am more comfortable using the 1911 for SD.
Since I'm a civilian and not engaged in SD and living in California, I can't carry, so it's all academic in the end.
My nightstand pistol is the Sig as I can keep one in the pipe and decock it, but I've been giving some serious thought to replacing it with the 1911 as it has night sights.
I like them equally for different reasons.
If I had only one of them, I'd go for the 1911 as it's MUCH more accurate due to the trigger. Others may not have this issue.
The Sig feeds anything and is compact and easy to disassemble for service with much thought given to it's main use - military and police in cold weather.
I trained with the Gunsite system and am more comfortable using the 1911 for SD.
Since I'm a civilian and not engaged in SD and living in California, I can't carry, so it's all academic in the end.
My nightstand pistol is the Sig as I can keep one in the pipe and decock it, but I've been giving some serious thought to replacing it with the 1911 as it has night sights.
CountGlockula
Member
I've shot other styles of .45ACPs, but I always go back to the 1911.
SwampWolf
Member
I believe the Smith&Wesson Model 945 is the best .45 auto design in terms of reliability. It has been opined that the straight(er) feeding configuration (from magazine to chamber) is a contributing factor in the 945's superb reliability record (at least in mine and for most of those that I've perused at various websites).
"Third Generation" Smiths in general have a well-deserved reputation for extreme reliability.
"Third Generation" Smiths in general have a well-deserved reputation for extreme reliability.
Schmidlin
Member
I personally like the 1911 just because of his history and the gobs of parts for them. Im sure there are better .45s to own that are not of the 1911 design, but that's all Ive shot.
Deanimator
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M1911. Most other designs are too big for my hand, being D/A types with very long trigger reaches and long grips. The only one I've held that even kind of felt good was the FNP-45.
easyrider604
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I prefer 1911 manufactured by Colt, Springfield Armory or Remington because those are the only brands I've owned. Oh yes, I had a Vega at one time that was a piece of excrement.
The 1911 design has everything you may need or want in a combat, sporting or SD automatic: reliability, durability, repairability, custom-ability, simpicity. IMO, this design will last another hundred years.
Having said that, my last 1911 (Colt GC MkIV Series 80, probably had a dozen different models at one time) was sold in February.
Strictly a .357/38 wheelgunner these days. Partly to simplify/consolidate calibers and partly wanting to spend range time shooting, not chasing brass.
If ever I ever get another bottom feeder, it will definitely be a .45 acp 1911.
The 1911 design has everything you may need or want in a combat, sporting or SD automatic: reliability, durability, repairability, custom-ability, simpicity. IMO, this design will last another hundred years.
Having said that, my last 1911 (Colt GC MkIV Series 80, probably had a dozen different models at one time) was sold in February.
Strictly a .357/38 wheelgunner these days. Partly to simplify/consolidate calibers and partly wanting to spend range time shooting, not chasing brass.
If ever I ever get another bottom feeder, it will definitely be a .45 acp 1911.
kcshooter
Member
"Better" is purely subjective. There is no frame of reference for comparison here.
For me, there is nothing better than a 1911. Every one of mine is completely reliable and feeds the hydrashok or hst bullets I carry in it flawlessly. I've got 7. I carry 3 regularly and have a 4th that's a dedicated nightstand gun. All are 45acp. I trust my life to each of them. My Colt is over 10k rounds now. It's been rebuilt (mostly for the fun of it) and is still going strong.
Someone will be along shortly to tell you how every one they've ever seen won't feed or run.
For me, there is nothing better than a 1911. Every one of mine is completely reliable and feeds the hydrashok or hst bullets I carry in it flawlessly. I've got 7. I carry 3 regularly and have a 4th that's a dedicated nightstand gun. All are 45acp. I trust my life to each of them. My Colt is over 10k rounds now. It's been rebuilt (mostly for the fun of it) and is still going strong.
Someone will be along shortly to tell you how every one they've ever seen won't feed or run.
weisse52
Member
Yes, but better for what..
But I still think the 1911 is better....
What I think is more true is that in order to fairly judge a design, you have understand the goals of the design.
As a metallic bullseye or bear hunting pistol, it's a pretty poor design.
As a defensive weapon in a day of limited magazine capacity, it's a very good design.
Mike
KBintheSLC
Member
I agree on the subjective part... A lot of folks love 1911's for a lot of good reasons. There are some great builds out there. However, I never got comfortable with one. I jumped from DA/SA revolvers in the early days, straight to Glocks in more recent years. I could never get used to an SAO gun with a safety. Thats why the 1911 never worked for me. However, to say it is better/worse is like saying "which flavor of ice cream is better, vanilla or chocolate".
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Since the only .45 ACP I own is a Springfield 1911A1 I'll have to go with the 1911 design. Hey, Mr. Browning knew what he was doing and that's proven by his design lasting 100 years. (and still going strong)
possum
Member
this is a personal question, and personaly for me i believe that the best .45acp platform is in a 1911.
benderx4
Member
I used to own four different 1911 platforms ranging from a SA GI to a Colt Defender and Series 70, finally to a DW PM7. Loved them all, especially the Defender and the PM7. (Okay, I hated the SA GI)
Today, in 45acp, I own a HK USPc45, a HK45, a HK Mark23 SOCOM, and a SW Model 625JM. The 1911s are all gone. Why?
Hard to explain. But for me, the HKs/revolver are more fun to shoot, more accurate to shoot, and equal or better the shot count. (Except for the revolver.) Yea, the triggers aren't quite as good, but in the SW 625, and the HK45, they are darn close.
One of these days, I know I'll end up with a Les Baer or Wilson Combat, just a matter of time, but for now, I'm pretty happy with my choices.
Today, in 45acp, I own a HK USPc45, a HK45, a HK Mark23 SOCOM, and a SW Model 625JM. The 1911s are all gone. Why?
Hard to explain. But for me, the HKs/revolver are more fun to shoot, more accurate to shoot, and equal or better the shot count. (Except for the revolver.) Yea, the triggers aren't quite as good, but in the SW 625, and the HK45, they are darn close.
One of these days, I know I'll end up with a Les Baer or Wilson Combat, just a matter of time, but for now, I'm pretty happy with my choices.
Coyote3855
Member
Non 1911. Single Action Army.
oneounceload
member
S&W revolver......
no need to worry about magazine issues
no need to worry about magazine issues
Depends what you are talking about. If you are talking about trigger, thinness, accuracy and looks, the 1911 is where it's at. But if you want reliability, especially in bad conditions or when neglected, the other more modern .45's will be better. They are also cheaper and won't need maintenance such as checking extractor tension and what not. There's a reason why most cops will carry a non-1911 like a Glock and why most target shooters/competitors will shoot a 1911.
kitsapcharly
Member
I'd like to put in a word for the XD-45c from Springfield Armory. Mine has the 4" barrel. I seem to be more accurate with it than with any other pistol. Grip angle is copied from 1911 and it's natural pointing grip design just fits me and most other people who've tried one.
This "c" version(compact) has a short grip that uses a 10-round magazine and a longer 13-round mag with a grip extension also comes with it so it's like a service model and a CCW gun all in one. These are very versatile for all sorts of uses.
They also make 9MM and 40 short and weak and have various sizes.
The trigger action is one of those that isn't exactly easily described as single or double but is very nice...about 5 or 6 pounds from the factory. I can only say I love this gun!!
Like the 1911 many people modify sights, springs, etc. for various reasons both real and imagined but nobody ever seems to modify the grip at all and trigger mods are mainly for competitive shooting. That should tell you something. These guns are also becoming increasingly popular with police despite no aggressive marketing or big discounts. They sell on merit.
I also just tried a new EAA Witness (Tafoglio made) in 22/45 convertible that I bought mainly to use as a 22 practice piece for larger guns, ie, my XD-45. Tried just once through each mag in the45 before switching to 22 so this is very preliminary but it seems like a very nice gun and seems very well made. It also has a grip very similar to the XD and can be used cocked and locked like a 1911 or DA/SA if you want. Trigger is pretty good in DA and seemed very nice in single...barely broken in yet. I like it well but this is tentative. Not enough experience to recommend it in good conscience. That takes more time and shooting.
FWIW
This "c" version(compact) has a short grip that uses a 10-round magazine and a longer 13-round mag with a grip extension also comes with it so it's like a service model and a CCW gun all in one. These are very versatile for all sorts of uses.
They also make 9MM and 40 short and weak and have various sizes.
The trigger action is one of those that isn't exactly easily described as single or double but is very nice...about 5 or 6 pounds from the factory. I can only say I love this gun!!
Like the 1911 many people modify sights, springs, etc. for various reasons both real and imagined but nobody ever seems to modify the grip at all and trigger mods are mainly for competitive shooting. That should tell you something. These guns are also becoming increasingly popular with police despite no aggressive marketing or big discounts. They sell on merit.
I also just tried a new EAA Witness (Tafoglio made) in 22/45 convertible that I bought mainly to use as a 22 practice piece for larger guns, ie, my XD-45. Tried just once through each mag in the45 before switching to 22 so this is very preliminary but it seems like a very nice gun and seems very well made. It also has a grip very similar to the XD and can be used cocked and locked like a 1911 or DA/SA if you want. Trigger is pretty good in DA and seemed very nice in single...barely broken in yet. I like it well but this is tentative. Not enough experience to recommend it in good conscience. That takes more time and shooting.
FWIW
Chuck Spears
member
Non-1911. The new plastic pistols just have it beat all around except for looks. You used to be able to claim accuracy superiority with the 1911 but the quality plastics (XD, Glock, FNP, USP) I've shot were all just as accurate. Magazine capacity is much better with the newer designs. Sure they make double stack 1911's but they feel awkward in my hand. Then you have the ease of breakdown and reassembly. I can field strip and reassemble my XD blindfolded and in a snap. Reliability would have to go with the new plastics as well. I've had quality 1911's (Kimber, Springfield) malfunction much more often than the plastics I've owned and shot. The 1911 is a fine platform and I even own a couple that I really like but it's an old design. It works but the newer stuff works better. Forgot to mention price tag. A quality plastic costs about half as much as a quality 1911. Another bonus.
kcshooter
Member
Because they are forbidden to carry SAO sidearms.
There's also a reason the elite forces such as MEU, HRT, and SWAT carry a 1911, and not plastic.
For those who are seriously likely to use a sidearm, the 1911 keeps being their choice. If the newer plastic designs were really all that much better, they would probably have realized it by now, don'tcha think?
Chuck Spears
member
kcshooter said:
Probably a reason why the US Special Operation Command uses a plastic piece (HK Mark 23) too. You could safely consider them an elite force. Modern defense contracts are switching over to the plastics more and more. The standard Beretta M9 is most likely going to be replaced with a plastic piece very soon as well. A large number of units already use plastic SIG pieces. Times change. In the age where technological advancements occur more rapidly than ever, you can't expect a century old design to hold for too much longer. The 1911 works but newer designs match its capabilities with a cheaper more simple package.
hemiram
Member
Personally, and that's the only answer that means anything in this thread, I have to say a non 1911. I don't like the grip at all, and don't really feel comfortable betting my life on it working 100%, and I also feel they are insanely overpriced. if I had to pick a .45ACP, it would probably be a CZ 97B, or what I already own, it's cheaper equivalent, a EAA Witness full size, closely followed by a whole bunch of others, none of them a 1911.
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