What will the next mainstream handgun cartridge look like?

[Macchina]

What do you think the next cartridge to compete with the likes of .380, .38, .357, 9, 40, 45 will be? The 10mm is not new and doesn't appear to ever move from the niche position it's in. The .45 GAP is next to dead. The .327 is probably actually dead. The .22 TCM is pretty cool but I don't see it going into many more platforms....

What do you think the next handgun round will be? Maybe a new revolver cartridge that surpasses the .357? Maybe a bottleneck auto-loading cartridge that does really well? Maybe something case-less...

The .40 S&W was the last real success in the handgun world, let that be the gauge for what the next round has to beat.

In my opinion, bullet and propellent technology seem to be keeping the traditional choices very valid, but that's no fun and not the question I'm asking .

 

[eldon519]

Oh, about 9mm in diameter with a case about 19 mom long...

 

[Dmitri Popov]

Something in .50, but with a recoil close to a 40 S&W up to a 45colt defense load. Auto loader, so no rim out past the casing.
Bullets between 250 grains and 300 grains.
Now I'm going to have to think deeper into this...

 

[WestKentucky]

Long and skinny. In a wheel gun it puts 6 or even 7 shots in a jframe if it stays around 32 cal or smaller. In an auto it puts 12-15 in a subcompact, 20 in a compact. It should still give powerful hits if it's moving quickly. I'm guessing a 2000fps 32 auto or maybe 30 cal. Basically a modern version of 30 carbine or 32-20

 

[Macchina]

My guess: something to fit into these tiny pocket pistols (LCP etc) that isn't 100 years old. The CCW market is huge right now and it's main diet is the.380 ACP. I think a complete replacement for the 380 would be cool.

I do think case-less ammo is just around the corner. Something I often think about is the possibility of "reloadable" magazines in which the brass case is eliminated and magazines are loaded on your bench with bullets and some kind of propellent. If the ignition source was electric in the pistol, these magazines could even be sold as throw-aways instead of boxes of ammo. This would allow a company to sell a pistol with magazines (just like they do currently) only the company would set what "cartridge" each gun was. Caliber would obviously be determined by the barrel, but the load can be specific to each gun/user. Caseless ammo like this would allow a pocket pistol to carry perhaps 20 or 30 rounds in a magazine...

 

[Dmitri Popov]

I think .32 has been done to much. If its going to be small, it'll be very small. Think between .20 and .25, super fast, with different bullet choices ranging from high penetration, to explosive fragmentation.

 

[Dmitri Popov]

Trouble with caseless is the whole electric ignition. I don't think people will be willing to trust their lives to a battery. Not trying to be a downer so don't take it as that. I love the idea. Just don't think its ready for a man-portable set-up yet.

 

[BigG]

I think there's more than enough already. Better loads in the cartridges we have.

 

[KenW.]

Edited: On second thought. That response was not very "High Road".

I'm hoping for something as gentle as the .32ACP, but less recoil than the .380 for my wife. LCP-sized.

 

[Macchina]

Long and skinny. In a wheel gun it puts 6 or even 7 shots in a jframe if it stays around 32 cal or smaller. In an auto it puts 12-15 in a subcompact, 20 in a compact. It should still give powerful hits if it's moving quickly. I'm guessing a 2000fps 32 auto or maybe 30 cal. Basically a modern version of 30 carbine or 32-20

I like this one...

 

[Macchina]

Trouble with caseless is the whole electric ignition. I don't think people will be willing to trust their lives to a battery. Not trying to be a downer so don't take it as that. I love the idea. Just don't think its ready for a man-portable set-up yet.

Such as the batteries in our airplanes, smoke detectors, Pacemakers, and Segways?

 

[WestKentucky]

Dmitri Popov
Member


Join Date: March 11, 2011
Location: Wayne County, West Virginia
Posts: 254
I think .32 has been done to much. If its going to be small, it'll be very small. Think between .20 and .25, super fast, with different bullet choices ranging from high penetration, to explosive fragmentation.
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Look .25naa it's pretty sweet, but it's still too fat to stuff many of them into a magazine.

 

[Coop45]

Something in .50, but with a recoil close to a 40 S&W up to a 45colt defense load. Auto loader, so no rim out past the casing.
Bullets between 250 grains and 300 grains.
Now I'm going to have to think deeper into this...

Can it be had in a J Frame?

 

[WestKentucky]

32naa is also a nice bottlenecked round that sounds good but your still limited to 380sized guns and 380 magazines.

I'm still thinking 22 mag converted to center fire.

 

[WestKentucky]

4.6x30 never heard of it til just a minute ago since this thread made me think of the five-seven.

 

[Dmitri Popov]

Yea, yea, yea, I see your point about batteries in those objects, BUT they also have redundant systems in airplanes and such, pacemakers DO fail, and segways, well if your segways battery fails, its hilarious but probably not life threatening!

 

[CWL]

The problem with new caliber introductions is that they typically are "solutions" with no problems.

Here's an example of why a new caliber becomes commonly adopted:
The evolution of .40S&W adoption was because of direct FBI (with police support) decision that 9mm wasn't enough after the 1986 Miami Shootout tragedy. They actually decided that 10mm was the best cartridge for Agent carry, but it was too powerful & big for many women & men to fire, so manufacturers came-up with a underloaded 10mm "lite" round. Eventually, S&W figured that they may as well reduce the OAL of 10mm shells so that's how .40SW came about. The FBI like it, police followed the FBI's example... and civilian shooters emulated both.

Without widescale need for a real purpose, most calibers are simply wildcats and relegated to the novelty collectors.

 

[anothernewb]

Honestly, The calibers out there are pretty decent, and without a revolution in personal defense to create a large market push, I highly doubt much will happen.

I think the most likely scenario will be a metallurgy change to the structure of the bullets themselves rather than a cartridge.

When the ammo change does come - I think it'll be a caseless ammo of some kind. As to the issue of batteries - there are several systems in use for the last 100 years that generate their own electrical current from operation. ie - the capacitor and points on your average lawn mower. generates the current for the plug from rotation. Perhaps the invention will be a self contained system derived from slide movement which charges a the system each time the action is cycled.

On a way different tangent - perhaps someone will invent a grip material that would conform to an individuals hand thereby distributing recoil forces optimally for each user. the grip material could be set on the gun in an inert state and then one could "fix" it into position once a proper/best grip was achieved.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I would like to see a large frame revolver holding 10rds of .327 for HD. Rail on top for sight of choice and a light rail on the underlug.

Good option for states with a 10rd limit and those who aren't into autos.

For street use I could see a new higher-pressure round in a small caliber being an option. Would likely need to be done from the ground up along with the platform since too hot it would damage existing weapons. Maybe a .25 but longer/heavier than the current round and screaming at high velocity.

 

[frankenstein406]

41 action express without the rebated rim.

 

[mrming]

7x22mm. Or rather, a 257" dia bullet in a 40s&w length case. 117 gr at 1400 fps maybe?

Because what the market really needs is a better penetrating 9mm replacement.

Then again, a 75 gr version of the above with a nosler tip that could function in the 1600 fps range would be rather gruesome.

 

[CWL]

Come to think of it, if lead is fully outlawed for use in ammunition, there may be a need for new ammunition calibers & shapes designed around specific performance features of composites, polymers and alloy replacement materials.

 

[mrming]

Just think. A .17" dia projectile that due to its hardness / flesh&bone parting efficency is as effective as a 45-70 slug.

I'm pretty sure you won't get there using lead in a copper sleave.

tungsten dart with fins on the end encased in a soft plastic? Plastic peels off on impact leaving the impactor rolling like a drill bit through the target. Wouldn't leave a 1" hole on exit, but it would do a nice job of shredding all the tissue it passed through.

I have to wonder if we won't eventually get around to using the projectile as the cartridge case again. It's a little cheesy as a way of going caseless but with modern powders and different bullet materials it might work out..

 

[buck460XVR]

Micro-mags........like the TCM 22. A .40 gr bullet traveling @ 1900 fps and shot outta a 1911 type platform with a capacity of 17 rounds.

 

[Dmitri Popov]

Wow, the magneto powered capacitor idea is facinating! Never even occured to me an idea like that! I work on/with small engines for a living so this is a theory I'm very familiar with. So your idea would use a traditional slide/magazine set-up, without an ejection function. How would the "cartridge" survive the transition from mag to barrel without a case? See when I'm thinking caseless I picture a preloaded barrel that you swap out on a receiver. The receiver holds the power source. No moving parts really. Kinda the advantage in my eyes. Not trying to shoot anything down I'm truly interested in the magneto/capacitor set-up.