What would you do? Draw or Not question

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boostedxt

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I was with my fiance the other night and we were leaving her place to go to the front office to pick up a wedding gift from someone. Leaving the street there is a stop sign, but cars always park on the sides of the roads so you need to pull forward a bit to see. Well I do that and a grounds crew truck drives by slow and the driver says some choice words to me out the window. I believe he thought I wasn't going to stop. Well we follow him out, only one way out, and I pull into the main office parking lot. As I get out and start to cross the parking lot I see him flip a U-turn and head back my direction in a hurry. He pulls up and gets out and starts advancing towards me fast. I squared off to him so I would keep him in front of me, now its quick decision time....He was very up set, was threatening me verbally with threats of physical battery. At the time I had my 9mm on me. I left it in its place and talked the situation down.

What would you have done? I feel i did the right thing as it didn't go anywhere beyond where I wanted it too.

You? thoughts on the situation?
Joe
 
I don't see why drawing would have been necessary. I'm not one of the "Never draw unless you're going to shoot" crowd, but there's a heck of a lot between advancing and threatening and "I need to draw and fire" in my mind. \

Of course, none of us were there, so we can't really say for sure what the right thing to do was. The important thing is that what you chose to do (or not do, in this case) worked and nobody got hurt. Well done.
 
As soon as he looked like he was coming back and getting out of the truck it's time to get back in the car and drive.
 
What would you have done? I feel i did the right thing as it didn't go anywhere beyond where I wanted it too.
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Since it apparently worked out OK you must have done something right.


What I would do is try to defuse the situation with talk.
If it got to the point where I felt physically threatened, the threat would be looking at the muzzle of a gun. What happen then would depend on that the threat does.

I'm 72 and my fighting days are long behind me.
There's a old saying, "Don't mess with an old man. He will not fight you. He will just kill you".

Hopefully I will never find out if that is true.:)
 
This is an important point and worth making clear: An angry motorist doing the road-rage bit may approach you with aggressive language. He or she might even try taking a swing at you. You're allowed to hit back. Or leave the area. Nothing there warrants drawing a weapon because the moment you do, you've escalated the situation to a life-or-death matter and the person you draw on may be justified in killing you (if they can).

So this situation was handled properly. You can certainly move your strong hand to gain access to your gun if you think you'll need to have it, but as long as it's just verbal stuff it should stay there if at all possible.
 
there were two of them....The driver jumped out immediately and advanced in a definite fighting posture and tone. The passenger of the vehicle stayed put, but opened the door.

My only concern and what would have made me draw. he was a local landscaper, had a utility knife on his hip. I noticed the light brown leather holster right away. Had he made a move I would have gone for it. That was my line with him...

joe
 
He or she might even try taking a swing at you. You're allowed to hit back. Or leave the area. Nothing there warrants drawing a weapon because the moment you do, you've escalated the situation to a life-or-death matter and the person you draw on may be justified in killing you (if they can).
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That depends on the state laws.

Texas law for example would allow me to draw a weapon after being hit to prevent further attack through the threat of force. Not sure about Colorado. This one didn't get to the physical force stage so not drawing was probably the right move.

OP, does Colorado prevent you from issuing a verbal warning that you are armed? Sounds like you de-escalated it OK but it might be worth finding out if you can give a verbal warning that you are armed without breaking any laws.
 
Are you trying to find someone to give you permission to draw a weapon?

Make note that you didn't completely describe the situation in your original post and that in spite of the fact that no one got shot and that every poster so far has said deescalation is the best thing that you, or anyone can do you introduce a knife and a potential second adversary into the situation.

No one is going to tell you that you should have drawn your gun because there were other options open to you (deescalate, leave the area, get in your car, enter the main office).
 
M2 Carbine said:
Since it apparently worked out OK you must have done something right.


What I would do is try to defuse the situation with talk.
If it got to the point where I felt physically threatened, the threat would be looking at the muzzle of a gun. What happen then would depend on that the threat does.

I'm 72 and my fighting days are long behind me.
There's a old saying, "Don't mess with an old man. He will not fight you. He will just kill you".

Hopefully I will never find out if that is true.:)
Click to expand...
There's a old saying, "Don't mess with an old man. He will not fight you. He will just kill you". Hopefully I will never find out if that is true.

proof that there two of us
 
I would have avoided the situation in everyway as it seems you did...but things can change in a hurry in these situations. I have been in a similar situation before that changed in a hurry.There were three of them and six of us but they had the gun. Its a long story but we actually had to take a gun away from a road rager on the side of the road. The guy emptied a 380 right at us, somehow we managed not to get shot while doing so and after giving him a few attitude ajustments on the head he was not as vocal when the tide turned in our favor and the guy began to run down the highway screaming I'm Sorry,I'm Sorry . When we left he was standing on the next bridge down the highway watching us leave.We kept the gun and turned into the State Patrol Station.Ever since then I have never been without my own gun on the road. I still don't know why it happened to this day.
This was a very dangerous situation and now that I'm a lot older I have come to this conclusion; I will not be laid a hand on again,why take a chance?
 
My question for those who say "not draw" would be, "How close do you let a potential attacker get before drawing?". If they get close enough to lunge at you, your life may be in danger.
 
If an individual is threatening me with physical violence I will draw down on them and be prepared to defend myself if needed.

Upon the conclusion of the incident I will call the cops and pass on the info to get it on record.
 
hso: nope just trying to get others advice on the situation and anything they would have done whether it be different from what i did.

I did not draw as a result of him not going for his utility knife, my fiance in the car, and I felt at the time i could talk him down as he was in work uniform and work truck. I was civil with him and then asked him if he was willing to throw it all away for a perception that was wrong. He backed down, and his buddy yelled from the truck to get back in. Keep in mind I had some time to think of this as the road to the main office is about 1/4 mile long and he was looking at me the whole time in his side mirror. I had a plan before I ever exited the vehicle...it wasn't till he saw me walking to the office did he flip a U turn and come back. then it was just up to me to keep cool and maintain my plan.

The reason why i didn't get back into the vehicle was because I was a ways from it. I was about 30ft from the front door of the main office, and probably 30ft from my vehicle. At the time I did move towards the vehicle as I didn't want them to be between me and my fiance.

I think it went well...could it have gone worst? yup...but it worked out. I do like the question of how close is to close and where do you draw the line?

Joe
 
boostedxt said:
I think it went well...could it have gone worst? yup...but it worked out. I do like the question of how close is to close and where do you draw the line?
Joe
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It went well and that's all you can ask for. I don't know what constitutes too close. IMO that's an intuitive thing which varies from person to person. I would let him know that I'm carrying before drawing, if I sense it's going to turn ugly.
 
JoeSlomo said:
If an individual is threatening me with physical violence I will draw down on them and be prepared to defend myself if needed.

Upon the conclusion of the incident I will call the cops and pass on the info to get it on record.
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That would put you in prison here in MN.

Better know state laws, because it varies.
 
Sounds like you did good. Deescalation is always best. Anyone know of the laws in NC on issuing a verbal warning that you are armed and won't hesitate to shoot if they don't stop what they're doing?
 
I think you handled it well.

There is nothing to indicate drawing was justified. No weapons shown, no disparity of force related, etc

Anyone know of the laws in NC on issuing a verbal warning that you are armed and won't hesitate to shoot if they don't stop what they're doing?


I don't think the laws anywhere would look highly on a verbal warning that you're going to shoot unless the BG was doing something justifying it. You can probably think of some scenario where you could warn someone but by the time the situation escalated to justification of deadly force I would think you don't have time for verbal warnings.
 
FLORIDA: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html from the state website.

Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

* Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
* Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.

Q. What if someone uses threatening language to me so that I am afraid for my life or safety?

A. Verbal threats are not enough to justify the use of deadly force. There must be an overt act by the person which indicates that he immediately intends to carry out the threat. The person threatened must reasonably believe that he will be killed or suffer serious bodily harm if he does not immediately take the life of his adversary.


I have taken care of plenty of people for whom a strike to the head was nearly fatal. (bleeding in or near the brain). If someone comes AT ME while verbally threatening, I think I will tell them to STOP, I am armed, do not come any closer, and I will make any possible retreat possible, attempting to get into house or car. If possible (this is unlikely) I'll call 911 and put phone on speakerphone.

At some point I will become in fear of serious bodily harm or death, and I will draw a lawfully concealed weapon, and continue to tell them to STOP. If I think I cannot avoid serious bodily injury, then what happens next may be unpleasant.
 
mrokern said:
That would put you in prison here in MN.

Better know state laws, because it varies.
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That is a valid point.

I am fortunate enough to live in a state that does not require "retreat" and allows one to defend oneself. Not all states are like that though.
 
boostedxt, I think you may have been lucky this time and may not have exerted enough energy when you had the chance to avoid a potentially lethal incident in the main office parking lot.

This could have ended very badly if by chance you encountered the wrong guy at the wrong time and the same goes for the guy in the truck and his buddy.

You experienced a series of seemingly unrelated events that began to cascade towards a final disastrous outcome, an outcome that was denied because both main participants had enough common sense to think before taking it to the next level. At some points in the overall event an incorrect interpretation of a movement by anyone of the four parties could have resulted in guns being drawn and shots being fired. The crazy thing is that everyone involved could have thought they were acting in self defense or defense of a loved one.

If cussed out by a driver I’ll wait until they are out of sight before considering parking or getting out of my vehicle. Should I see them flip a quick u-turn I am running for better safety, cover, concealment, etc. When there is a way to avoid these kinds of things it just isn’t worth it to me to engage an unknown and then possibly have to waste my time and money in legal and medical entanglements or wind up dead.
 
Well, you didn't pull, and you're still here, so it would appear that you were right. In the situation where you were there and we were not, you know better if you were in actual danger.

I would tell the police. It might not be the first time this guy has been in someone's face. (Or the last.) Maybe he didn't hit you, but he might assault someone else later.
 
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