What would you do in this situation?

[Kamicosmos]

My mom was telling my why one of the local wal-marts suddenly posted a No Weapons sign. Apparently, a man was walking out of the store, and the shoplifting detector things went off. Door greeter (an elderly man) asked him to stop, and started to walk towards the man. The man simply stopped, turned around to face the door greeter, pulled a gun and pointed at the greeter!

Obviously a very scary situation. Let's take it all at face value, and add one of us THR CCW'ers standing in the area where we can see all of this going on:

Alarm going off. Elderly door greeter says Stop. Man turns and draws a gun pointing it at door greeter. You are, let's say 90 degrees to the side of the two men and 21 feet away (the Teuller Rule), your weapon is concealed. Obviously being at Wal-mart, there are by-standers everywhere.

*Dennis Hopper voice from Speed* What do you do?

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Reach for my cell phone and dial 9-1-1

If the bad guy fired a shot, I would hope I had a clear shot at him, and take it. No shot fired doesn't rate a shot from me if it's obvious the guy is going to walk away rather than start blasting.

 

[Valkman]

You GOT to love the fact that they think bad guys won't bring a gun in because they put up a sign. That sign isn't even good enough to keep my CCW out of there - so it is in fact completely useless.

As to the what to do thing, I don't know - I'd have to be there.

 

[Mulliga]

If someone's crazy enough to pull his gun out on a Wally World greeter, he's crazy enough to shoot it.

Problem is, the guy already has his gun out. Unless you're very good at drawing from concealment and/or the guy is distracted, you probably won't draw faster than he can turn and shoot you.

I'd take cover behind a checkout line shelf, draw, and fire from there, assuming he started opening fire.

 

[kikilee]

First I wouldn't shop at that Wal-Mart again. I don't spend my money anywhere that I can't take my CCW weapon in.

 

[sm]

...Shoppers we have REAL BLUE LIGHTSPECIAL at the Greeter's station...
Wait ...that is what the "other" .


With Exception to State Statues in regard to Non-CCW , I rarely if ever frequent a place with a Proper NO CCW signage here.

NO matter where , if a person has a gun out and pointed at someone, That shooter is "already" ahead of anyone doing anything.

Time to access stiuation, behind cover ( at least concealment) and make the best response at that time. This may be calling 911, getting kids, eldery folks to safer areas, getting a good description of Perp(s) and any vehicles out front.

Observe and Report.

If a shot is fired, and MY life is in danger or that of another family member, or shopper - the assessment and response has kicked in to another higher level.

Situation dictates response.

First thing I try to do is not be somewhere I cannot CCW. Second is I try to be as aware as can wherever I go - time of day, where I park , and notice as I enter and leave.

I have stopped at my parked truck and looked around - things did not "feel right" got back in my truck and left. I can do whatever I was gonna do at another place, in a better area , better time of day - a lot of times.

Hence the reason if Mom needs something - I insist on these "suggestions" to her - or I go with her , especially if any of the "orange flags" has any chance of being raised.

Yes I went to WM not long ago. It was late (10 pm) and a classmate had a sick kid and hubby...I just felt better making sure she made it to and fro...once on the hwy, I went my way and she went hers...

 

[TallPine]

What do you do?

Whine to the management to get them to post the following sign:

"Absolutely no pointing guns at people allowed!"

That should solve the problem ....

 

[GEM]

Interesting situation.

First, WalMart shouldn't have old folks trying to stop shoplifters. Trying to approach the guy was silly. One might call out to him but approaching is foolish. If they want such folks stopped - hire armed professionals.

Second - what to do - I want the guy to go away - thus, I'm not drawing and starting a gun fight in a crowd of folks. If I saw it, I would flee, take cover, and/or call the law. Let the guy go!

 

[Psssniper]

(speaker crackles)"Clean up at the front of the store, clean up at the front"

 

[sturmruger]

This is why I always carry when the wife and I go to Walmart. When I lived in IA the Walmarts down there were having a lot of trouble with people getting mugged in the parking lot. It didn't help that we always went after midnight on Friday or Saturday night.

 

[Island Beretta]

If putting up signs and just asking people not to do things would work, the world wouldn't be in this mess.. when are some people going to learn that this is not how it is or how it works.. :banghead:

life is hard, harder when you are stupid..- John Wayne.

 

[yorec]

Gonna do nothing except move smoothly to cover. From there I'll be a good witness until the guy starts shooting. Then all bets are off...

 

[rexelbion]

"Sorry, my mistake. Have a nice day!!! "

 

[Golden Saber]

Allow me to go off on a tangent, just a bit, and respond to Mulliga.

Mulliga, all is not lost if the bad guy is pointing his weapon at you. My trainer in Memphis trained us to be able to respond within one and a half seconds. It will take the bad guy that long to process input into his brain that you're moving and drawing your weapon, and that he needs to fire.

If you can draw, aim, and fire within that one and a half second period, odds are high that you will survive.

If you, or if any of us, cannot draw, aim, and fire within that one and a half seconds, then practice is in order, until we can.

I don't mean to pick on you, or anyone else, so please take my comments in the spirit intended.

 

[richyoung]

GS, I think your instructor has SERIOUSLY over-estimated the response time. A second and a half is an eternity in a deadly encounter, and I haven't noticed too many IPSC shooters that take 1.5 sec to crank off that first round...

 

[GEM]

I wouldn't count on a 1.5 second reaction time, either. I know RT pretty well and to count on that would be suicide.

 

[bobby68]

i am not alawyer and would like to hear from one, but i wonder if the sign is meant as a response to previous incidents to whcih The managment feels legally obligated to respond.

In other words, if a event happens once (like somebody pulling a gun on the greeter) then the managment has to appear to have made some changes in case a similar event happens again, and somebody is hurt. Otherwise, anyone injured in a secondary incident would be able to sue walmart and say, "because of the first event, you knew this could happen and you did nothing about it to prevent it from happening again."

There is a policy at Rangemasters in door shooting range, that people can not come in to shoot by themselves. I later learned that it was enacted after a women came in, rented a gun, and then shot herself with it (intentionally, suicide).

does that make any sense?

 

[XLMiguel]

As previously noted, signs mean squat, just like laws don't work unless, a) you obey them, and b) you enforce them.

I saw a quote somewhere around here to the effect that 'there isn't a law written that has stopped a murder, robbery, or rape', and it's absolutely true. The reason we call them "criminals" is?

The only sign I know that actually means something is the one tha comedian Bill Engvals hands out when he says, "Here's your sign."

 

[gigmike]

Simple, get to cover and assess the situation in case shots are fired. However, once it's over and done I'd tear that damn sign down and insist they replace it with one that works.

 

[LiquidTension]

LOL yeah, afterwards walk to the sign and point to it. "I think you need a new one, this one doesn't work."

 

[rkba_net]

WalMart's corporate Headquarters has a policy the forbids the local stores from banning CCW... the individual stores have NO SAY on this matter... if you complain to the higher ups it WILL be removed....

 

[Battlespace]

My wife does not go to Walmart alone. My married daughter does not go to Walmart alone. When either want to go, I take my wife and son-in-law takes my daughter. I am aware of where we park, not around other cars that shield the BG, we walk straight to the door get the cart, shop, pay and leave. I carry both Fox OC and a M1911A1, son-in-law carries a Glock 27 and Fox OC. I have had one case of a a boy about 5 seeing my weapon, he was with mom in line behind me. He said something to the effect of "that man is a policeman, I saw his gun." I had let my jacket fall open to get my wallet out. I just smiled at mom, paid the clerk, who never battted an eye, and left.