What would you do (police assault)

[crewchief]

I not quite sure this is the right fourm for this but since it's not gun related and it does have something to do with legal ramifications I will post this here. Earlier tonight (Saturday) I was watching an episode of Cops on FOX. The name of the episode was called "Resisting Arrest" and I saw something that shocked me. Their was a Female officer that was aiding two other male cops in taking down a suspect. Now you see them get him to the ground and the two male cops are around the suspects midsection and the female is up by the head. Anyhow they were having trouble getting the suspects arms completely behind his back to cuff him so all of a sudden you see the female officer start beating the suspect in his face with her fist. Now this was not just one or two blows but at least 15-20 of the hardest blows she could throw in his face. Now mind you their is already two male cops on top of this guy and they have his arms and his head is pressed into the ground turned sideways so his face was exposed and that is how the female cop was just wailing away on him. This outraged me and my wife as we both saw this as way excessive and uncalled for, my wife would know as being an MP herself for many years. I got the females information like her name and what department she worked for as well I have the exact time that this was shown (8:37 on a atomic clock so it is exact). I feel like writing letters to FOX and going as far as to contact the department on the matter. I also plan on getting a hold of my local FOX affiliate and getting a copy of the episode as I was not recording or TiVoing at that time. I have watched hundreds of episodes of COPS and have never seen anything as outrageous as this. I mean if any of you saw it or not when they picked up the suspect his entire face was covered in blood and they mentioned the possibility of breaking his nose. Later in the same episode I saw an officer chase down a guy and hit him while they were running on the back of his head with a baton which seemed completely rational, but this was just ridiculous. I hope others that saw the episode are equally outraged and perhaps someone close to where it happened I hope will find a way to press charges against that female officer. Also what upsets me is the fact the COPS producers would show this and not feel it was their duty to inform someone of the assault they captured on tape. I know that this show was founded on the principal of informing the public what police officers day is like and the dangers that they encounter. The COPS people also show the police helping people and by showing the public these things they are encouraging a more understanding and respect for the police officers protecting there community. Showing this officer blatantly beating this guy in the face does not help the relationship and trust the people are suppose to have with their local police. Anyway I want to do something about this, and want to know what you guys would do? Please anybody who happened to see it chime in on what you make of it.

 

[Matthew Courtney]

http://www.copssuck.net/Pages/videos.html

 

[seeker_two]

I used to like COPS when it first debuted.....


...but now it's become AMERICA'S FUNNIEST JACK-BOOTED-THUG VIDEOS.

Many LEO's I know can't stomach it either d/t the "practices" shown. But they're the old-fashioned "peace officer" types who consider themselves a CITIZEN of their community--not a para-military "enforcer" organization.

Most people call COPS "entertainment." I call it "evidence"....

 

[Baba Louie]

Saw it too. Most of her blows were directed to the suspect's left ribcage with a couple to the facial area at first. It still took them some time and effort to hook him up. Peeping Tom at ASU womens dorm room or something wasn't it? On meth or something? They asked him or told him they were taking him in and were putting the cuffs on. They had one bracelet on his right wrist and he stiffened up to resist further restraint, as he later said he didn't want to go back to jail (IIRC).

They'd OC'd him on the way to the ground, or on the ground and she got a blast of that as well. All three of those Cops were good sized boys or girls as was the suspect. And it wasn't pretty or easy for them.
Use of Force isn't a pretty thing at times and it came apart real fast on the officers and was over pretty fast as well with Sean laying on the ground cuffed and bleeding from his nose. His choice really. I wouldn't say he became real combative, nor would I say he complied fully with their instructions, hence said Use of Force... I wonder why he resisted?

The other one with the stalled car, running away who got bopped with a stick whilst running away from the cop with his hand removing a knife (it turned out) from his pocket while running... it also turned out he was a Known Felon, ignition punched out in stalled car (reason for initial stop), syringes... I wonder why he ran?

The saddest episode was the DV call at Christmas time when booze and an argument over lack of money ended up with husband going downtown for popping his beloved spousal unit during said argument and him telling her to use what little money he had to pay the rent, not his bail, from the backseat of a cruiser.

I wonder why some men and women become Cops? The high pay? Paperwork? 9 to 5 job? Donuts? Because once in awhile they actually put somebody away for a minute or three who needs to be off the streets? 'Cause somebodies gotta do it so you and I can safely sit here at our computers and Monday morning QB about what they do, yet have never walked a mile in their mocassins? (maybe you have, I know I haven't)

I'll never forget a Citizen's Police Academy class here in LV where three of us had to put a set of cuffs on a female 5'3" officer who told us she was gonna resist us (during the Use of Force class, right after the whole Rodney King incident). It was probably pretty hilarious as it took us 5 minutes of chasing her around the classroom and we never did get her hooked up. The biggest of the three of us made some wiseazz comment to her about it so she turned the tables on him and asked him how long he could resist her placing them on him. He told her she couldn't do it cause he'd hurt her if she tried. She grabbed his right thumb and had him down on his knees, arm twisted behind his back, cuffed in less than 10 seconds, then apologized for hurting his thumb, elbow and shoulder.

Use of Force. Force Continuum. Not pretty, but Effective with training. They've probably all been trained pretty well.

I'm sure the Maricopa AZ Sheriff dept will get a lot of phone calls from that show. It had some action some find objectionable. Life's like that sometimes. If people didn't do stupid things, resist or run, you and I would probably never be watching a show called Cops.

If your local dept has a Citizen's Academy class, may I suggest you sign up? Lotsa great people, a chance to learn, see and experience things I never imagined.

 

[abledog]

Baba Louie Thanks for your perspective I find it hard to criticize someone unless I'v actually preformed the job!!!
Terry

 

[WilderBill]

Almost everytime I've seen that show I've asked myself something on the order of; "if this is how they act when they KNOW there's a camera watching, then what happens the rest of the time?"
I did walk in about the time time the female officer was wailing away on that guy.
I wondered out loud if all the officers involved were planning to leave town before he got out.

 

[Ex-Doc]

When I watched the show I said to myself if it was a blackman there would be demonstrations, lawsuits, and riots............

 

[Ryder]

Now this was not just one or two blows but at least 15-20 of the hardest blows she could throw in his face.

And then he got up and walked? Sounds like maybe he should have quit laughing at her after the first several powder puffs errr... Punches. Is the question what would I do if I saw this on TV? Nothing, this isn't anything I'd get worked up over unless it happened to me personally. Just how many "hardest blows" should it take to kill someone or even knock them unconscious?

I don't like watching the show either. Cops don't act like that where I live and I don't need any new reasons to hate them now that the old ones are buried.

 

[jnojr]

I can't believe this.

I just watched the episode in question. The suspect was high on meth and was resisting being handcuffed. The female officer hit him several times in the ribs. At no time did she strike the suspect on his face, at least on-camera... I think the bloody nose came from the concrete cover the guy got his face mashed into. But that was, IMO, a 100% legit arrest... the officers did what they needed to do to get control of the subject and nothing more.

It kills me when people Monday-morning QB stuff like this. What do you guys think the officers should have done... let him go because he was fighting too hard?

 

[Warbow]

jnojr said:

I just watched the episode in question. The suspect was high on meth and was resisting being handcuffed. The female officer hit him several times in the ribs. At no time did she strike the suspect on his face, at least on-camera... I think the bloody nose came from the concrete cover the guy got his face mashed into. But that was, IMO, a 100% legit arrest... the officers did what they needed to do to get control of the subject and nothing more.

When I read the original post I wasn't sure if it was the same episode I saw last night because I only remember her doing jabs on the guy's ribs and never saw her make any head strikes. But now I'm pretty sure it's the same episode and I think the original poster may not have seen it correctly...

I also agree that it was 100% legitimate. The suspect was a pretty big guy, and he was on Meth. Meth makes you very likely to do some crazy, irrational, stupid things. Such as grab a cop's sidearm and shoot said cop with it. You don't pussyfoot around with a 200+ pound muscular person high on Meth. If you do, you're asking to get killed. You saw how long it took two male cops his size and one decent sized female cop to restrain him...

 

[c_yeager]

So, crewcheif what SHOULD they have done?

 

[TamThompson]

Disclaimer: OK, so I'm a picky person with a healthy repect for the English language who makes her living as a freelance writer. Deal with it.

"Wailing" is what you do when you go to a wall in Israel and you loudly lament a loss or your grief. "Whaling" is to strike, hit repeatedly, or thrash. In the context presented in the original post, it's "WHALING." Why does this matter? Because if you were "wailing on someone", you'd be standing on them, screaming your lungs out. But if you were "whaling" on them, then you're beating the crud out of them. Different meanings, you see?

I realize I'm fighting what will no doubt be a losing battle, but I am just trying to preserve some semblance of the English language...

Best to all,

 

[oneslowgun]

Um... Wouldn't that make your post "wailing, about whaling?"

Sorry couldn't resist


oneslowpleasedontwhaleonmegun

 

[longrifleman]

whaling

The business or practice of hunting, killing, and processing whales.

The perp is lucky he wasn't harpooned and turned into lamp oil.



Also sorry, also couldn't resist.

If the guy was on meth with two officers on his back and still fought the cuffs he shouldn't expect much else. This is a case where "officer safety" does apply.

 

[Aikibiker]

Have you ever tried to turn a fully resisting violent intoxicated person over on their stomach, while they are on the ground, and jack their arms behind their back, while you are tangled up with other people trying to do the same thing, and so full of adrenaline you can barely form coherent sentences in your mind let alone speak them out loud? I have done it once. To say it is hard is an under statement.

Since this happened just outside a bar I had been in with some friends I didn't have a pistol on me at the time and if I did it would not have been carried openly like a cop does. I did have a spyderco clipped to my pocket and you have no idea the sick feeling I had in my guts when the guy's hands drifted near it as we were rolling around on the cement. (That is your free lesson today kiddies, just say no to grappling in real life. I made the choice to take the fight to the ground and nearly got seriously hurt for it)

That type of situation is some serious fecal matter. And even though you saw the tape of it you weren't there so you shouldn't question the judgement of the people on the scene.

PLease excuse the run-on sentence in the first paragraph However if you read that as fast as you possibly can while trying to juggle knives you will get an idea of what that sort of thing is like.

Man I sound like such a virtual toughguy..... *shakes head and walks off*

 

[Justin Moore]

...but now it's become AMERICA'S FUNNIEST JACK-BOOTED-THUG VIDEOS.

LOL.

I like to watch, to see the dangerous effects that steroids can have on a person.

Seriously thou, US Customs busted a Denver SWAT guy for having roids mailed to his house.

Roids+automatic weapons? Hrmmmmmmmm.....scratches head....

 

[tommytrauma]

Crewchief,
As others have pointed out, you are mistaken in your belief that she was striking him in the face. She appeared to me to be trying to nail him in the brachial plexus, which is a completely acceptable move. In theory, it makes the arm go numb, so it can be brought behind him for cuffing.

As far as police assault goes, they were effecting a legal arrest, and he resisted. Have you ever tried to handcuff someone who was resisting? Have you ever grappeled with someone while wearing a gun? I've treated a lot of cops who got the snot beat out of them while doing so, usually because they were showing more restraint than the guy they were trying to take into custody felt the need for.

 

[HBK]

Maybe they should've just given the suspect a big hug and ask nicely pretty please with sugar on top if they could cuff him. I hate jack booted thuggery as much as the next guy, but I don't think this qualifies.

 

[Sarge111]

Babba Louie...

It's the donuts

 

[tommytrauma]

Events like this have to be in the mind of every cop when they're dealing with a combative or non-compliant person;

Oklahoma trooper's routine check turns fatal, prompting focus on a powerful drug gaining popularity

By Gaylord Shaw
Special Correspondent
Newsday

Devol, Oklahoma, United States - An hour before dawn and already dressed for work, Highway Patrol Trooper Nik Green answered a knock on the front door of his residence, a brown brick parsonage next to the First Baptist Church, where he was part-time youth minister.

The woman at the door, who delivered morning newspapers in and around this hamlet of 150 people, told the trooper of a car parked on the gravel road less than a mile away with its doors and trunk lid open and a man slumped in the seat.

When Green went to investigate, the 35-year-old father of three young girls was sucked into the maelstrom of madness caused by methamphetamine, a highly addictive and dangerous drug that has been spreading like a plague across much of America. Minutes later, Green was dead, his body sprawled face down in the ditch alongside a desolate country road, his brain pierced by two bullets from his Glock .357 Magnum pistol.

Authorities said that on the morning after Christmas, the trooper discovered meth user Ricky Ray Malone, 29, brewing up another batch of the drug in a "mobile meth lab." Green's attempt to arrest Malone led to what one investigator called a "horrific struggle."

Malone, four inches taller and 50 pounds heavier than the six-foot, 180-pound officer, seized Green's pistol during the fight, the investigators say. The sounds of the struggle were recorded by a video camera mounted on the patrol car's dashboard, although the fight was not in the camera's optic range.

"Oh Lord ... Jesus Christ," were the trooper's last words before a pistol shot ended his prayer, and his life.