Whatever happened to Blue Dot?

[Savage30L]

I've decided, after reading some loading data, that I'd like to try it in .45 Colt...but it shows as "out of stock" at all of my trusted stores. Has it been discontinued? It still shows up on the Alliant Powder web site as an active product.

 

[Starter52]

Alliant powders have been in short supply since 2021. Red Dot and Green Dot have just started to show up locally here. No Unique or Blue Dot yet.

 

[Howa 9700]

Depends on where you look and if that was your lucky day.

From Graf's retail store about a year ago. Among others, 8 pounders of Red Dot, Blue Dot and Unique.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Some of the online sellers have had Green Dot and Unique for a while but none of the other Dots (Red, Clay or Blue). Alliant is concentrating on their paying customers (IOW Vista’s commercial and government contracts) and letting the Handloader wait at the back of the line for what is left. Be patient and it will show up eventually.

 

[Y-T71]

I've been lucky to have been able to find Blue Dot locally (as Starter52 pointed out, Alliant powders have been hard to find) so, it's out there. Just have to be in the right place at the right time I guess.

Personally, I don't buy HazMat online.

(What I would like to find is Red Dot but haven't seen any locally for years, used to be one of the more available powders for me but didn't pick up any when I should've)

 

[Rule3]

There are other powders besides flaming dirt!!
HP 38, Unique etc.

 

[Savage30L]

There are other powders besides flaming dirt!!
HP 38, Unique etc.

I have those. I'm looking at loading .250-grain 45 cal XTP-HP to around 1000fps.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

There are other powders besides flaming dirt!!
HP 38, Unique etc.

Like most things in life, it’s the operator, not the tool. If you load Blue Dot properly, following its best performance, it will burn completely and cleanly.

 

[AJC1]

I have those. I'm looking at loading .250-grain 45 cal XTP-HP to around 1000fps.

From a fellow 45c loader blue dot does not burn well in a strait wall case until about 30kpsi. Herco is just a little slower than Unique, but should burn a lot better at the lower pressures 45c operates at. The 10.0 grain load of Unique with a 250 was great, and I'm currently working on 20kpsi loads with Silhouette and 4227. That project is brand new, and I'm still casting boolits to get it started.... Noe 454-280 dropping at 286 when coated.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

When you do find blue dot. Load a few with standard and magnum primers. I have to use magnum for my 10mm loads. Another option that might work is long shot powder too.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

New formulation is hands down cleaner. AND AND! Lyman retested all their loads for 41 mag with the new formulation. They are a tad bit slower but the new stuff works good.

 

[Savage30L]

Well, I've been working up deer hunting loads (for my Marlin 1894), so some of my loads with other powders (Lil Gun, IMR 4227, Ramshot Enforcer) are (according to Hodgdon and Hornady) already pushing 30K PSI, so doing that with Blue Dot isn't out of the question. But I thought it would be nice to have loads for my Rugers that are a bit hot, but not too hot (I know the action is strong, I'm talking about comfort of shooting). Looking at the burn rate chart, I also thought about Accurate #7, but that's not much easier to find than Blue dot.....

 

[AJC1]

Well, I've been working up deer hunting loads (for my Marlin 1894), so some of my loads with other powders (Lil Gun, IMR 4227, Ramshot Enforcer) are (according to Hodgdon and Hornady) already pushing 30K PSI, so doing that with Blue Dot isn't out of the question. But I thought it would be nice to have loads for my Rugers that are a bit hot, but not too hot (I know the action is strong, I'm talking about comfort of shooting). Looking at the burn rate chart, I also thought about Accurate #7, but that's not much easier to find than Blue dot.....

That's why I related the 10.0 grains of Unique. I'm not going 30 ever and the loads I post will be in the 20k or less range. I'm working on others right about there...

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I have those. I'm looking at loading .250-grain 45 cal XTP-HP to around 1000fps.

In that case, see if your locals have VV N110, VV N350, or VV 3N38. Those are all in Blue Dot's load range and are generally cheaper now than the Alliant powders. The VV app is also free so you have loading data available for the Hornady 250gr HP-XTP.

 

[Charlie98]

Depends on where you look and if that was your lucky day.

I only have 2 basic sources for powder, my local Cabelas, and my LGS... both see random Alliant powder drops. Alliant is shipping it, but if you are looking locally, you are playing the lottery.

AND AND! Lyman retested all their loads for 41 mag with the new formulation.

And... I still won't use BlueDot in the .41. FWIW, I've loaded BlueDot in the .41 Back Home, Years Ago, and I didn't see any reason to continue with it. Alliant could rescind their .41 BlueDot warning and I would still ignore it on the shelf. John is right, it needs a LOT of pressure to work right, and I just don't trust it.

Well, I've been working up deer hunting loads (for my Marlin 1894), so some of my loads with other powders (Lil Gun, IMR 4227, Ramshot Enforcer) are (according to Hodgdon and Hornady) already pushing 30K PSI, so doing that with Blue Dot isn't out of the question. But I thought it would be nice to have loads for my Rugers that are a bit hot, but not too hot (I know the action is strong, I'm talking about comfort of shooting).

Just today... I shot some IMR4227 .41 loads in both my 4" S&W, and my 20" Marlin... smooth shooting with good accuracy. The recoil impulse was far less than a mid-range charge of Unique under the same weight of bullet (210grn.) Yes, in the pistol the IMR4227 did not burn completely... leaving underburnt crumbs on the bench... but it really delivers in the 1894. Like BlueDot... IMR4227 likes pressure, but a heavy bullet and a good crimp gets things going nicely.

I have those. I'm looking at loading .250-grain 45 cal XTP-HP to around 1000fps.

In the rifle or the pistol? I'm guessing pistol...

15grn 2400 gave me 950fps, with a 255grn cast, plain-base FN bullet in my 5.5" Vaquero. I did nearly the same with 21grn IMR4227... according to QuickLoad, 21grn IMR4227, with the 250grn XTP, will give you 1000fps at 19K psi.

 

[Savage30L]

In that case, see if your locals have VV N110, VV N350, or VV 3N38. Those are all in Blue Dot's load range and are generally cheaper now than the Alliant powders. The VV app is also free so you have loading data available for the Hornady 250gr HP-XTP.

I don't see it as cheaper here; the few VV powders we have available locally hover around $50/pound, which is quite a bit more than I wish to spend.

 

[Savage30L]

I only have 2 basic sources for powder, my local Cabelas, and my LGS... both see random Alliant powder drops. Alliant is shipping it, but if you are looking locally, you are playing the lottery.



And... I still won't use BlueDot in the .41. FWIW, I've loaded BlueDot in the .41 Back Home, Years Ago, and I didn't see any reason to continue with it. Alliant could rescind their .41 BlueDot warning and I would still ignore it on the shelf. John is right, it needs a LOT of pressure to work right, and I just don't trust it.



Just today... I shot some IMR4227 .41 loads in both my 4" S&W, and my 20" Marlin... smooth shooting with good accuracy. The recoil impulse was far less than a mid-range charge of Unique under the same weight of bullet (210grn.) Yes, in the pistol the IMR4227 did not burn completely... leaving underburnt crumbs on the bench... but it really delivers in the 1894. Like BlueDot... IMR4227 likes pressure, but a heavy bullet and a good crimp gets things going nicely.



In the rifle or the pistol? I'm guessing pistol...

15grn 2400 gave me 950fps, with a 255grn cast, plain-base FN bullet in my 5.5" Vaquero. I did nearly the same with 21grn IMR4227... according to QuickLoad, 21grn IMR4227, with the 250grn XTP, will give you 1000fps at 19K psi.

Good info there. It happens that I made up a ladder load with IMR4227: 20, 21, 22, 23, and 24 grains of powder with the 250 XTP, but I haven't had a chance to test the load at the range yet. I was already thinking of loading another 50 with just the load you suggest....

I have some old 2400; I haven't loaded anything with it yet. The canister is probably about 40 years old (I inherited it), but it looks and smells fine. I have about 1 1/2 pounds of 4227 still, so I'm not hurting for good powder for the venerable old round.

Edited to add: My Rugers are 2 5.5" Vaquero Bisleys.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I don't see it as cheaper here; the few VV powders we have available locally hover around $50/pound, which is quite a bit more than I wish to spend.

Oh, okay. Never mind. You can just wait for Blue Dot, then. Good luck.

 

[Charlie98]

It happens that I made up a ladder load with IMR4227: 20, 21, 22, 23, and 24 grains of powder with the 250 XTP

Be aware, however, that 24grn load is certainly knocking on the door of 28000 PSI.... and 1200fps in the Ruger. That is also a compressed load, so make sure it has a good crimp.

 

[Savage30L]

Be aware, however, that 24grn load is certainly knocking on the door of 28000 PSI.... and 1200fps in the Ruger. That is also a compressed load, so make sure it has a good crimp.

I won't go over 21 in the Rugers, I promise....

the heavier loads are strictly for the Marlin.

 

[Charlie98]

I won't go over 21 in the Rugers, I promise....

the heavier loads are strictly for the Marlin.

Well... you can, but just be careful. FWIW, I would be more careful with the Marlin than the Ruger... that is not to say they are weak, just the limits of their respective design.

 

[bfalcon00]

In the rifle or the pistol? I'm guessing pistol...

15grn 2400 gave me 950fps, with a 255grn cast, plain-base FN bullet in my 5.5" Vaquero. I did nearly the same with 21grn IMR4227... according to QuickLoad, 21grn IMR4227, with the 250grn XTP, will give you 1000fps at 19K psi.

I use 2400 in 45 Colt for a coated 255 grain swc from Brazos. I use between 18 and 18.5 grains of 2400. Those loads are all over 1000 fps in my freedom arms 5 inch. With a good Redding profile crimp and a standard large pistol primer, the 2400 burns great.

 

[Walkalong]

IMHO, Blue Dot is too slow for standard pressure loads in .45 Colt. I'm sure it would "work", but it's definitely not optimal for standard .45 Colt pressure, which is very low.

Fast to medium speed powders work better. Red Dot for example, is widely used in .45 Colt, as is Unique.

 

[Show Me]

So many good choices. Expand your mind. I'm using autocomp right now to save on other less avalable ones

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

IMHO, Blue Dot is too slow for standard pressure loads in .45 Colt. I'm sure it would "work", but it's definitely not optimal for standard .45 Colt pressure, which is very low.

Fast to medium speed powders work better. Red Dot for example, is widely used in .45 Colt, as is Unique.

Yes and no. Blue Dot was developed for use in 3” waterfowl loads in 12ga. SAAMI defines the 12ga - whether using 2¾-inch or 3-inch 12-gauge loads - as having a maximum allowable pressure of 11,500psi. That’s not a lot of pressure yet Blue Dot performs really well in that environment. The key to Blue Dot performance is the weight to diameter ratio - how “square” the load is. Red Dot loves a square load; but Blue Dot wants a longer column in a longer tube with a longer time to exit. Just looking at the MSDS I’m guessing it has to do with the burn inhibitors Hercules used when developing the powder.
There are standard pressure .45AutoRim loads with Blue Dot and they work; but they work better in a 6” barrel with a 300gr jacketed bullet.
I have a .44Spl load using Blue Dot for a Bull-X 190gr BNWC that’s clean and incredibly accurate - from a 6” barrel! - but the crimp on that load would make a strong man faint. . It works great in a 3” barrel, too but it is just a little flamy. Flamish? Flameworthy.
Anywho, yes it will run a .45Colt very nicely and at standard pressure but it might take some work to get there. Seems like the OP already knows what he’s doing, he just needs some powder to magically appear where he’s looking for it.