Whatever Happened to the .17 Winchester Super Magnum

[G'dale Mike]

It’s the model 77/17

 

[Gtscotty]

If you pull the thread of “why do we need this between that and that?” then the entirety of your position is either narrow sighted, or illogical

Negative. It's not "why do we need this?" It's what would make consumers feel that the want or need this enough to plunk down the cash?"

Your examples all offer tangible, if often slight benefits to different people for different uses, e.g. different combinations of recoil level, bullet weight, BC, etc. There is a tangible benefit in recoil, and a tangible cost in trajectory and power when stepping down from a .300 WM to a .30-06, and from a .30-06 to a .308. People can talk themselves into those kinds of differences.

What is the benefit of stepping down from .223 to 17 WSM?

What would be your answer to the question at the end of my last post?

It all becomes a trivial discussion, regardless of which three cartridges you pick.

Outside of competition or niche, specialty applications and heavy recoilers, this is 100% true. I hope people don't actually think it matters which of the medium power centerfire cartridges they use to plunk Bambi at 100 yds.

 

[Varminterror]

For what use would 17 HMR not be quite enough, but .223 would be unacceptably or inconveniently overpowered?

Are you asserting I need to own a 223rem? Because you say I do? You’re justifying my need by offering an older cartridge. That’s not better, it’s just older.

I have about 360 yards between my back door and the tree line. My 17HMR is lack luster and bunnies run off more often past about 300. My 223’s, alternative, makes a helluva lot more noise for my wife and kids in the house, costs just as much or more, or costs time reloading, ruins a lot more meat, and is a lot more likely to cause problems in my horse pasture on the back end of my section if it ricochets.

I also spend a lot of evenings calling badger and coons, I can reach farther with the WSM than the HMR, and again, not do as much pelt damage as 223rem.

Again - you’re validating someone else’s need based on what you preferred on the market, poo-pooing the new product without justification. Why are you so afraid of competition in the market?

 

[Varminterror]

I love my 6.5 Creedmoors and wasn't nearly as impressed with my 6.5x55 as some folks seem to be. In a long action, for deer: .270 Win all day

As I mentioned above - narrow sighted.

You’re denigrating the 17 WSM as a waste of consumer spending, but touting the 270win and 6.5 creedmoor above the 6.5swede...

Yup... ok...

 

[Gtscotty]

Are you asserting I need to own a 223rem? Because you say I do? You’re justifying my need by offering an older cartridge. That’s not better, it’s just older.

Let's skip the straw man.

Are we pretending that .223 is not a fantastically ubiquitous cartridge and an obvious competitor for most of the uses the 17 WSM is aimed at?

I have about 360 yards between my back door and the tree line. My 17HMR is lack luster and bunnies run off more often past about 300. My 223’s, alternative, makes a helluva lot more noise for my wife and kids in the house, costs just as much or more, or costs time reloading, ruins a lot more meat, and is a lot more likely to cause problems in my horse pasture on the back end of my section if it ricochets.

I also spend a lot of evenings calling badger and coons, I can reach farther with the WSM than the HMR, and again, not do as much pelt damage as 223rem.

Good, these are some legitimate if narrow usage cases where the 17 WSM would shine. I'd not bet on a huge number of people having these circumstances, but if I did, I'd take a hard look at the 17 WSM.

 

[Gtscotty]

As I mentioned above - narrow sighted.

You’re denigrating the 17 WSM as a waste of consumer spending, but touting the 270win and 6.5 creedmoor above the 6.5swede...

Yup... ok...

I guess I thought the whole post (not just your exerpt) was pretty obviously tongue in cheek, but perhaps not obvious enough. It really doesn't matter what you shoot Bambi with. The 6.5 CM and .270 are more convenient to buy and load for in my experience, but other than that, see above sentence.

I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, I thought we were having a civil discussion. It's not my intent to insult the 17 WSM or people that own one, I just think that it's apparent lack of popularity is not surprising for the reasons I stated.

 

[Varminterror]

No paint off of my fender. But it doesn’t seem you’re very honest with yourself about your particular biases. The logic doesn’t hold up, and your application of the evidences is inconsistent. Is a cartridge languishing if more manufacturers are producing rifles, and more ammunition is being released, and both are available on the shelves? I missed where you answered that above.

 

[Gtscotty]

The logic of what I wrote about the 17 WSM holds up fine, you would just rather resort to personal critiques and dismissive hand waiving than try and consider what I said with an open mind, setting aside bias and ego. It's just an internet discussion on a cartridge, there's no reason to get bent out of shape about it. But someone always does.

I consider a cartridge to be languishing when it's last or second to last in popularity in it's category, behind the top half of the list by miles. When only a few companies produce one or two models so chambered compared to many different models in similar chamberings. When gun-people post "Whatever happened to ____ " threads about it, that's a good sign as well.

What's your definition?

Do you have any information indicating a surge in growth?

Who is producing rifles for it now? Any big manufacturers beyond Ruger and Savage? I think Browning made a low wall chambered in 17 WSM once, but haven't seen one lately.

I really haven't seen any 17 WSM rifles at all at my local stores lately. There is one or two varieties of WSM ammo, amongst a smorgasbord of other rimfire choices. Which definitely shows that the chambering isn't altogether dead.

 

[oldfortyfiveauto]

Just ordered the new Ruger 17WSM to go along with my 17 Hornet and 17 HMR. I'm a dog shooter and have found each has it's place depending on conditions. If I could only take one rifle on a dog shoot I'd take the Hornet and would not be unhappy.

 

[joneb]

If Remington is still awake they should resurrect the 5mm Rem. and blow it out to a 5mm RSM.
As Dr T mentioned a .22 Super mag. would worth doing. But if the ammo cost more than .233 Rem don't bother.

 

[Gtscotty]

If Remington is still awake they should resurrect the 5mm Rem. and blow it out to a 5mm RSM.
As Dr T mentioned a .22 Super mag. would worth doing. But if the ammo cost more than .233 Rem don't bother.

Back when I lived/hunted in Georgia, there was a rule on the books that stated you could shoot hogs on WMAs during any time there was a season open for another animal, using firearms legal for that animal. If you wanted to hunt hogs on WMAs during the relatively long small game season you were basically stuck with rimfire or shotguns. Most folks I knew used 22 mags, but something like a rimfire 22 WSM shooting 50 ish grain softpoints would probably have been a better option.

It looks like they have since changed the law for WMAs to allow any legal large or small game firearms to be used, but you still have to use small game legal firearms in the National Forests.

 

[oldfortyfiveauto]

If Remington is still awake they should resurrect the 5mm Rem. and blow it out to a 5mm RSM.
As Dr T mentioned a .22 Super mag. would worth doing. But if the ammo cost more than .233 Rem don't bother.

Every one I ever talked to that had a 5mm rem loved it. They shot as good or better than the 17hmr and hit harder than a 22 mag. Rifles that shoot the 22mag as well as the 17hmr are rare. A 20wsm would be awesome.

 

[oldfortyfiveauto]

Had my new Ruger 77/17WSM out this weekend. Looks like it’s going to settle in at just under 2” at 200yds with the Hornady 20gr loads. Ruger claims they redid the trigger on this new version. It still needed a trigger job.

 

[oldfortyfiveauto]

Forgot to note one thing about the Ruger 77/17. The 77/17 is a cock on opening action and the 17wsm requires a stronger spring to fire meaning the bolt opens much harder than a typical rim fire.