What's involved with shooting a BP firearm?

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Kynoch

member
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
1,481
Location
California Coast
With my first BP firearm on the way (T/C Hawken in .54) I attempted to make a list of what's needed to actually shoot it. Does this seem correct?

Required:
BP or substitute
Flask or squeeze bottle (I have an air-tight squeeze bottle with a captured cap which I have marked)
Measure (I have empty .223/.308/.30-06/.375 H&H shells)
Lead balls
Patches
Caps
Water/soap/Ballistol/cleaning kit (which I already have)

Recommended:
Replacement nipples
Nipple wrench
Ball starter
Cap dispenser
Range rod

The Hawken comes with some gear so I'm not sure what I'm going to need to purchase. Nevertheless, I would appreciate purchasing guidance on make, model, purveyor, etc. Thanks.
 
Nipple pick or vent pick (percussion or flintlock).
Pipe cleaners are handy. Get the cotton ones not the decorative nylon ones.
re: shooting patches and cleaning patches both
For the shooting patches if they're not pre-lubed you'll need lube for that. It's possible to make a solution of ballistol and let it dry ahead of time, but it's also handy just to have a tub of mink oil or similar.
Get a toolbox or something to put it all in. There's a lot of odds and ends you'll collect and they don't necessarily work great with a normal range bag.

For the wrench get the ratcheting kind. See http://possibleshop.com/s-s-nipple-wrench.html
Short starter: I like the kind on top of this page http://possibleshop.com/s-s-short-starter.html
Rod: I have one of the GI brass rods and like it: http://possibleshop.com/g-c-cleaning-rod.html
For patches get a variety of thicknesses. You'll want to see what the gun likes.
 
Last edited:
Oh, in terms of where to get stuff, I like Track of the Wolf, The Possible Shop, and Dixie Gun Works. Google for URLs.
 
EljaySL said:
Nipple pick or vent pick (percussion or flintlock).
Pipe cleaners are handy. Get the cotton ones not the decorative nylon ones.
re: shooting patches and cleaning patches both
For the shooting patches if they're not pre-lubed you'll need lube for that. It's possible to make a solution of ballistol and let it dry ahead of time, but it's also handy just to have a tub of mink oil or similar.
Get a toolbox or something to put it all in. There's a lot of odds and ends you'll collect and they don't necessarily work great with a normal range bag.

For the wrench get the ratcheting kind. See http://possibleshop.com/s-s-nipple-wrench.html
Short starter: I like the kind on top of this page http://possibleshop.com/s-s-short-starter.html
Rod: I have one of the GI brass rods and like it: http://possibleshop.com/g-c-cleaning-rod.html
For patches get a variety of thicknesses. You'll want to see what the gun likes.
Click to expand...
Thanks VERY much. I already bought a little toolbox at Wally World. I especially appreciate the recommendations. There's so many ball starters, measures, flasks, etc., etc. on the market that it's difficult to choose.
 
No problem. If there's any other random part you're trying to decide on feel free to ask.

For measures in the long run it's handy to have an adjustable measure that runs up to about 100 grains. I like the deluxe one http://www.possibleshop.com/s-s-powder-measure.html

The little cap acts to level off the powder and it helps dump it into smaller bore guns if you get one eventually.

For flasks sounds like you're set for now but this kind of thing is handy http://www.possibleshop.com/p-g-flask.html the rifle sized ones (12 oz) on this page are all fine. Just pick a pattern you like, it doesn't really matter. I keep 2F in the Zouave one and 3F in the basket weave one.
 
An adjustable powder measure has two sliding brass halves that goes from 40 to 100 grains. That can help you find your load because you have to load for accuracy. Probably between 70 and 80 grains will work with your .54.

You also need a short starter to get the patched ball started.
 
Recommended:
...
Nipple wrench
Click to expand...

I'd put nipple wrench in the "required" field; since you need to take the nipple(s) out to properly clean a BP gun...unless its not a cap and ball gun...
 
Move the short starter up to the "must have" as well.

I'm just learning how to pack as well. When I shoot BP rifles it's typically while walking on our black powder shooting trail. No handy shooting table or bench to set out a handy toolbox with this style of shooting. It all has to fit in pockets or in a shoulder bag.

The bare minimum you need for actually loading in order are;

  1. Powder and powder measure
  2. Lubed patch or dry patch with separate lube container
  3. Ball and ball starter
  4. Ramrod
  5. caps in a cap dispenser or priming powder in a powder dispenser. (cap or flint)

After using the items above you're ready to shoot. So if you make up a body born kit you want those items readily at hand. Ideally ready at ONE hand so you have the other to hold the rifle. And for holding the patch on the muzzle with your thumb while fumbling for the ball with your other hand.

All the rest of the field stuff can be either in a second bag on your other side or in the bottom part of the tool box depending on how you are set up for trail or open country or shooting from a bench.

You have a "range rod" listed. Is this meant to be "ramrod"? The reality is that if you dry ball or otherwise get the ball stuck you're going to want to shoot it out by removing the nipple and working some powder down into the chamber then put the nipple back on and shoot the ball out.

If you notice that seating the patch and ball is becoming harder then STOP! it's normal for the ball to become harder to seat after the first shot or two. But if you get to where it's super hard to seat it then you are getting a bad fouling buildup due to using the wrong patch lube. Or you're trying to use too thick a patch. It's best to start with a couple of too thin patches then work up slowly to where you have a firm but easily managed patch drag even in the usual lightly fouled barrel. If you persist in ramming home excessively tight patched balls you'll run into trouble sooner instead of later.

I've found that a good patch lube will clean the bore well enough to maintain the same ramrod drag throughout the day following the first couple of shots. You want the first one or two to feel "too easy" to set the ball. That way once the fouling builds up to a consistent amount where as much is scrubbed away by the lube as you build up with the shot you have a steady state and the ramrod pressure stays consistently manageable from that point on.
 
Required:
BP or substitute
Flask or squeeze bottle (I already have an air-tight squeeze bottle with a captured cap which I have marked)
Measure (I have empty .223/.308/.30-06/.375 H&H shells)
Lead balls
Patches
Lube (if patches are dry)
Caps
Water/soap/Ballistol/cleaning kit (which I already have)
Replacement nipples
Nipple wrench
Nipple pick or vent pick
Short starter

Toolbox to hold everything -- might need a roll around...

Recommended:
Cap dispenser
Range ram rod
 
I'm on my second toolbox which is about three times the size of the original one. In this hobby you acquire a lot of little odds and ends, especially if you have, say some flintlocks and some cap and ball revolvers too...

I do agree the nipple wrench is required. The short starter... there are people who don't use one, but it's a darn good idea especially just starting out.

You don't HAVE to have "replacement nipples". The one on the gun's probably fine. But usually the third party ones (TRESO) are nicer and it's good to have a spare. Just make sure you understand thread pitch.

Speaking of which it's nice to have a small tube of anti seize lube to put on the thread of the nipple. Most people seem to use the same kind they put on shotgun chokes. I can dig up a link if you don't know what I mean. At a minimum put some kind of olive oil or something on the threads. They have a way of seizing up.

Definitely start around 70gr but once you get settled in and comfortable shooting it start asking about how to tune a load. Step one is to try 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, shoot a group at each off the bench and see what happens.

Things not to get - a bore brush (you'll get it stuck, trust me).
 
You have a "range rod" listed. Is this meant to be "ramrod"? The reality is that if you dry ball or otherwise get the ball stuck you're going to want to shoot it out by removing the nipple and working some powder down into the chamber then put the nipple back on and shoot the ball out.
Click to expand...

Usually a range rod is just a ramrod but not the pretty wood one that goes on the gun, it doesn't have to be attractive so much as functional. I have a couple that are some kind of synthetic (fiberglass, delrin, all have pros and cons) and a couple that are metal with a big handle on the end which can be handy especially for cleaning. I don't usually use the rod that comes with the gun. The big exception is my Zouave since it has a mini ball tip on it...

Speaking of which he'll want a jag of the right size on the end of the rod.
 
EljaySL said:
Usually a range rod is just a ramrod but not the pretty wood one that goes on the gun, it doesn't have to be attractive so much as functional. I have a couple that are some kind of synthetic (fiberglass, delrin, all have pros and cons) and a couple that are metal with a big handle on the end which can be handy especially for cleaning. I don't usually use the rod that comes with the gun. The big exception is my Zouave since it has a mini ball tip on it...

Speaking of which he'll want a jag of the right size on the end of the rod.
Click to expand...
If using a true jag rather than one of those very narrow "eye loops", how does one pull the cleaning patch back out of the the barrel?

On smokeless guns they are made to push through...

Also, does anyone make "bore guides" to keep from messing up the crown on barrels?

Thanks.
 
Toolbox to hold everything -- might need a roll around...
Click to expand...

LOL :D

It's not THAT bad. I can take everything I need for my flintlock to the range in a small tool bag. Or now that I've got a proper shoulder hung shooting bag I can have all I need in there.

The nipple wrench I found has a screw in nipple pick built right into it. I believe it's the one sold by Traditions. If you can find the same one you get two items in one.

Powder goes IN the flask before you head out so it's really only one item. Patches take up very little room. Lead is heavy but compact... good thing too.... :D Caps are hard to see so they don't take up much room either. The cleaning kit I leave at home. Although if your gun's ramrod has the threaded end on one end then a brush or jag takes up very little room and it could be nice for swabbing out the bore if things do gum up. And the short starter is... well.... it's SHORT! So it doesn't need much room either.

Since you've got some Ballistol already you might try the patch lube that I've used with good success. It's a "Moose Milk" made from 1 part Ballistol to 3 or 4 parts water. Shake it up and the Ballistol breaks up and becomes suspended in the water just like soluable cutting oil. I lube my patches with 4 or 5 drops per patch after the ball has been started in with the short nub on the ball starter. At that point the patch fringe is at or slightly higher than the muzzle crown so it's easy to wet the fringe. Once lubed I ram it in with the long end of the short starter then ram fully with the ramrod. I keep the Moose Milk in a little 2oz squeeze bottle. About an ounce is good for even a long day of shooting with 30 to 40 shots taken.

With this Moose Milk I find that the ramrod stiffens up a little after the first clean bore shot but never gets any worse even with 30 to 35 shots taken one after the other. I also like the idea that I'm working with a oil as well as the moisture needed to keep the fouling soft. My hope is that this will provide at least a little resistance to rusting from the powder residue until I can get to it later in the evening.

Mind you another shooting buddy is using patches with some lithium grease rubbed into them. And those work well too. So there's LOT'S of options.

There is a lot of steps to loading and factors to consider for each stage. You might want to break things down to the factors related to loading, those for cleaning and others for achieving accuracy. Taking it in somewhat large but more manageable bites might make things less confusing.

I keep meaning to make up a nice range use ramrod. But for the last two years I've muddled through with the wooden rods that came with the guns. So I would say that it's not a "must have" I just have to take care that the lube keeps the fouling from becoming crusty and locking things up. But that always takes at least a few shots where the ramming resistance gets worse and worse so one can force the shot home, shoot it then either swab the barrel or take the whole works home and figure out a better lube that cleans correctly with each shot taken.
 
A whacky idea?

I'm trying to be kinder to my hands as I get older, and to that end, bought a small rubber mallet from The Dollar Store for … a dollar! I use it to start the patched ball in conjunction with my ball starter, so I don't have to whack it with my hands. I lay the patch and ball on the end of the barrel, whack it with the mallet to insert it in the muzzle, then use the ball starter, sometimes whacking it it with the mallet as well.

Also, Harbor Freight sells a tiny little airbrush cleaning tool that I use for myriad black powder tasks such as cleaning internal nipple threads and lockworks. It's only a buck or two:

DSCN2183_zps73dfa761.jpg
 
If using a true jag rather than one of those very narrow "eye loops", how does one pull the cleaning patch back out of the the barrel?
Click to expand...
If you use a jag of the correct caliber the rings on the jag will capture the patch and keep it attached when you withdraw the jag.
 
Thoughts on some of the above posts, in no real order.

What mykeal said about the jag. But I should also mention that if you put a dry patch down a dirty gun it can come off and you'll need to use some kind of a worm or patch puller doohickey to fish it back out. Add that to your list, but better yet don't do that. Either put on some lube or get some spit on it or something.

http://possibleshop.com/s-s-ramrod-acc.html has jags and patch pulling worms. You may want a bullet puller too although usually you can just shoot them out by removing the nipple and getting some powder behind the ball that way.

There's also a rod guide down at the bottom of that page. If you're concerned get a delrin rod which won't wear the muzzle at all but they're really flexible and kind of hard to get the hang of.

The nipple wrenches with the built in nipple pick isn't well built and if you ever get a nipple that's hard to remove you'll wipe out the wrench. Soft metal. Get the ratchet.

Moose milk is good stuff but still nice to have a tube or tub of something like wonder lube or mink oil or similar. Or just heat beeswax and a fat (olive oil, mutton tallow) in the microwave and give it a good stir. Whatever.

One point about the wooden rods is if you break one not only is it hard to get a new one that matches the gun but you can injure yourself. Synthetic rods are cheap.

I must admit keep a mallet in my black powder case for all kinds of unexpected purposes.
 
My T/C Hawken arrived today. It's in pristine shape except the previous owner installed swivel lugs (clean job) and a leather Turner M1 sling, go figure...

It came with three nipples, a nipple wrench, a ball starter, a cleaning jag, cleaning patches, shooting patches and a bunch of sabots. It looks like I am going to have to order a shopping list of stuff in order to shoot it...
 
Last edited:
I might have missed it, but I've, on rare occasions, used a ball puller. Usually pulling the nipple and loading powder behind the ball will push it out, for dry balling but wet powder is a different problem and a puller or one of the fancy CO2 devices become relevant "o)

Don't ask me how I know.
 
The Delrin ramrods are about as slick as goose snot on a handrail. Someone lent me theirs one time and I couldn't tell if I was making headway or my hand just kept slipping.

My long term plan is to make up a steel ram rod with screw on brass ends and a brass crown protector. It'll have an antler "T" handle. And most importantly I'm going to make up a belt mounted scabbard for it since pretty much EVERYONE I've ever talked to that carries their ram rod around in the barrel has shot the darn things at a target. And I figure that those rare individuals that don't admit to it are either lying or simply haven't got around to doing it yet.... :D

A good wood ram rod is fine. But it's important to use it correctly.

A big key to making the wood ram rod work and be durable is to take short bites on it. It's when you grab it WAY out from the muzzle and try to hammer the ball down that the rod bends and flexes and is at higher risk of snapping. To this end I heartily suggest rounding over the outer edge of the muzzle to remove the sharp edges of the octagonal flats. Touch it up with some blueing or browning stuff to make it match. That way when using the short bites and the ball suddenly moves WHEN you bash your hand against the muzzle you won't get cut. The tighter it's jammed the shorter the bites on the rod. Only using a 3 to 4 inch grab is about right if it's not wanting to move. For regular fits where things are going well I grab about 10 inches to a foot of rod and push through until my hand hits the muzzle or comes close. NEVER reach up and try to push seat a ball in one push. You WILL flex the rod wildly and the lack of support could cause it to split. It's those times when folks get stabbed by the end sticking out of the bore. Or they or someone else does it wrong and starts a split only to finish the split later on when doing the right things.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

F
  • Locked
So I'mfinding the firearm is the cheap part of the BP equation!
Replies
17
Views
675
USAF_Vet
U
Snowdog
  • Locked
Zoli Zouave: Musket caps or number 11 (and what brand?)
Replies
9
Views
3K
eastbank
eastbank
M
  • Locked
BP rifle will not fire
Replies
10
Views
603
bmwsid
B
J
  • Locked
New to more traditional BP shooting
Replies
19
Views
1K
jbkebert
J
Smith357
  • Locked
Noobie Questions - BP Deer Rifle
Replies
4
Views
688
arcticap
arcticap
Back
Top