Whats the deal with S&W 29/629

[MidRoad]

Do you have or have access to a 12 gauge shotgun? We always used shotguns for cut over land like you're describing. More so sing the milk jug because you'll jump them up while walking it. I've just seen more deer killed with shotguns than rifles, that's why I ask.

That a nice rifle. I'm going to have to ask my local dealer if he has one...got me curious.

LOL....if you were closer, I'd glady offer you your pick of which firearm to use in exchange for one of the tenderloins. And I understand the bolt action affair, and can respect the skill they take to use. Especially after the first shot. I've got a .30-.30, .44 mag, and .45-.70 all by Marlin and am hoping to get a .357 magnum Marlin sometime this coming year. And honestly? If I was hunting the land you're describing and was using a rifle, I'd take the .44 mag. I say that because I find it ironic that while I say it's just odd/different to me thinking of trying to hunt cut over with a pistol, the irony comes in with the fact that you're talking about using the exact same caliber I would...lol.

Full disclosure though, I know some people use the term brush gun to mean you can shoot through tree branches and bushes. But I use it to mean a somewhat heavy round fired from a shortened lever action for hunting in short range foliage terrain. Not meaning to imply shooting through high brush areas where you can't see, but more of any wayward growth that might be between you and your target won't have as much chance to affect the round's flight. Mostly because I think you're like me, in that I don't shoot at something in the hopes I'll hit it. When I was about 5 I took my pellet gun "bird hunting", and killed several random birds. I showed them to my dad who promptly put his belt to my ass, and explained the concept of shooting for food and never for entertainment. I've never fired a round at anything since that I either planned to eat or it was a continuing detriment to something of value (garden, other animals, ect). As well as never firing unless I knew I was going to kill it. Can't stand the thought of wounding the hell out of some animal because I was lazy.

I have a 28" Benelli pump ,stoeger double barrel and a Charles Daly 20 guage pump. All smooth bore with a bead. Illegal to use buck shot here. Haven't put slugs through then yet. Benelli is setup for turkey,the double barrel I use for tree rats/ skeert + trap and the 20 is also a longer barrel. Don't use it much but it was my first shotgun.. my father has .357 marlin with a peep sight and that is one awesome little gun. It'll be mine one day. We work together and have a running joke that I'm always trying to kill him off to get all his guns ,LOL.

But you're right it is kind weird/different to try and handgun hunt exclusively. Stick around the board and you will see many who are very successful doing so. All the pics and stories of guys on doing it,and doing it well is one of the reasons I want to do it. It's a challenge and not for everyone,which I need to find out if it will even work for me. I have a 6" .357 gp100 that I could use with hotter ammunition to hunt with. But been looking into .44's to help give me a little wiggle room in case I flub a shot a bit. Sure I'll do my best to take clear shots accurately. But weird things can happen.Between the handiness of carrying just a handgun,the range at which I hunt and the challenge it provides I'm going to give it a shot .

 

[MidRoad]

Interesting thread. So, what would be the verdict? We're in a somewhat similar situation as OP, choosing a hunting revolver for my son and while a Colt Anaconda like mine would be ideal, they've become virtually impossible to find locally and they're rare even on egun.de. 629 is a top contender because of ergonomics and personal preference and the accumulating round count won't be substantial, but possibility of shooting hotter (not crazy, Redhawk-hot, though) loads without damaging the gun is a consideration. The biggest game it'll be taking is in eland/elk -category and it'll also double as a sidearm in DG hunts.

If it were me and I was dealing with DG I would be bringing the super Redhawk with some hot heavy loads. Yes I don't have personal experience and am trying to figure out if I want a SRH or 629 for myself.bit I only deal with white tail and some black bear. Rugers are know for ruggedness ,and the ability to handle the hot heavy stuff. If there was a chance of a lion chewin on my buttcheeck I want to know that the gun is going to not have a problem,and that guy is getting big deep holes and put down with authority.

 

[hq]

If it were me and I was dealing with DG I would be bringing the super Redhawk with some hot heavy loads.

Sidearm, where a degree of less bulk and familiar controls are an advantage. He's had a 686 and 17 for almost seven years and shot my Smiths regularly all his life. The 240-270gr hardcasts or softpoints are just an addition to having half a dozen people with Nitro Express and H&H Magnum rifles as a primary backup if manure really collides with the ventilator.

The burning question is whether somewhat hot factory and handloads will turn a 629 into a rattle trap or a grenade in short order...

 

[BobWright]

I got into handgun hunting because that is all I had while in the Army. Easier to pack when moving duty station to duty station. And I'm better with a revolver than with a rifle.

Bob Wright

 

[MidRoad]

Sidearm, where a degree of less bulk and familiar controls are an advantage. He's had a 686 and 17 for almost seven years and shot my Smiths regularly all his life. The 240-270gr hardcasts or softpoints are just an addition to having half a dozen people with Nitro Express and H&H Magnum rifles as a primary backup if manure really collides with the ventilator.

The burning question is whether somewhat hot factory and handloads will turn a 629 into a rattle trap or a grenade in short order...

Ahhh ok. Lucky man though I hope someday before i croak i get to make it to an African safari. Unlikely though. Elk hunt out west would come first,but still unlikely too. One can dream!

 

[mcb]

Sidearm, where a degree of less bulk and familiar controls are an advantage. He's had a 686 and 17 for almost seven years and shot my Smiths regularly all his life. The 240-270gr hardcasts or softpoints are just an addition to having half a dozen people with Nitro Express and H&H Magnum rifles as a primary backup if manure really collides with the ventilator.

The burning question is whether somewhat hot factory and handloads will turn a 629 into a rattle trap or a grenade in short order...

My expectation is that a 629 will take 44 Magnum ammunition loaded to or under SAAMI MAP for thousands of rounds (probably approaching 10,000) before needing work. I have other N-frames in smaller caliber or lower pressure cartridges that are in excess of 20,000 rounds with nothing more annoying than needing to clean and re-apply some low strength loctite to the extractor rod when it got loose.

My 610 that I bought used has well over 20,000rd of 40 S&W through it by me including one double charge created when I was first learning to use a progress press. Went back to S&W for a safety check and they sent it back to me and said it was good to go with only replacing the cylinder stop and stop spring because they were worn a little. The double charge did no damage to the frame or cylinder despite the 40S&W case coming out in two, nearly three, pieces. It is now my hunting revolver getting a steady diet of relatively hot 10mm. (ETA if your curious 9.0 gr of Titegroup is a touch hot in a 40S&W under a 180gr CMJ)

My 625, that I am at least the third owner of, in the few years I used it for competition I put nearly 10,000 rounds on it. Given both of the previous owners I know of were also competitive revolver shooters and the amount of wear evident, it has to have many many thousand more rounds then I put on it. Still works fine and in fact has the best trigger of all my revolvers.

I have little doubt 44 Magnum is going to beat an N-frame up faster than 10mm, 45 ACP or 357 Mag but I think for most owners shooting SAAMI spec ammo its going to be a race to see if they can wear out the 44 Magnum or the 44 Magnum can wear out my wrists. If your going to exceed SAAMI buy a Ruger or a revolver is more powerful cartridge...

 

[hq]

I think for most owners shooting SAAMI spec ammo its going to be a race to see if they can wear out the 44 Magnum or the 44 Magnum can wear out my wrists.

That sums it up nicely. Thank you. OTOH I don't want to risk blowing up my Anaconda either so all our (shared) hunting ammo is well within SAAMI/CIP spec and annual round count is somewhere in low-mid hundreds. .44 is plenty for me and logistics favor matching the calibers, otherwise .460S&W could be an option.

 

[CraigC]

My expectation is that a 629 will take 44 Magnum ammunition loaded to or under SAAMI MAP for thousands of rounds (probably approaching 10,000) before needing work.

This doesn't seem to be congruent with reality.

 

[hq]

This doesn't seem to be congruent with reality.

Out of curiosity, where would you put a realistic limit for long-term durability? 629:s aren't outrageously expensive to replace but paperwork is a royal pain around here so longevity is definitely a factor.

 

[Duster340]

Even though my SBH can probably handle heavier than the standard listed magnum load data, I don't do it. Just no reason to for me. Same goes for my 629. Guess if I lived in grizzly country I might opt to up gun to 460 or 500. But other than that, I'm good with standard power magnum loads. Since I've been reloading I'd say 70% of my shooting is with mid to stout loads and 30% max loaded rounds.

To the OP, I truly don't believe you can go wrong with either the Ruger of S&W. Both are great revolvers imo.

 

[cp1969]

If a SAAMI pressure .44 mag isn't enough, you need the next caliber up, not more chamber pressure.

 

[CraigC]

Out of curiosity, where would you put a realistic limit for long-term durability? 629:s aren't outrageously expensive to replace but paperwork is a royal pain around here so longevity is definitely a factor.

Some have had to have their guns rebuilt after only 2000-3000rds. IMHO, this is unacceptable.

Even though my SBH can probably heavier the standard listed magnum load data, I don't do it. Just no reason to for me. Same goes for my 629. Guess if I lived in grizzly country I might opt to up gun to 460 or 500. But other than that, I'm good with standard power magnum loads. Since I've been reloading I'd say 70% of my shooting is with mid to stout loads and 30% max loaded rounds.

Again, the issue with S&W's isn't with over-pressure loads but with standard pressure loads. The big advantage to the Ruger is that it handles a lifetime of standard pressure loads. The ability to handle heavier loads is just a bonus.

If a SAAMI pressure .44 mag isn't enough, you need the next caliber up, not more chamber pressure.

That's a bogus argument. Isn't the next caliber up much higher in pressure? The .454, .480 and .475Linebaugh all operate at higher pressures. So why is the .475 better at 50,000psi but not the .44Mag?

 

[Sergei Mosin]

S&W seems to do this across the board - the K-frame is fine in .38 Special but problematic in .357 Magnum; the N-frame is fine in .357 Magnum (or .44 Special) but problematic in .44 Magnum. Just cramming too much cartridge into too small a frame.

 

[CraigC]

Trying to get by on what they have. I'm still surprised they actually designed a new L-frame around the .357Mag when they did.

 

[cp1969]

Some have had to have their guns rebuilt after only 2000-3000rds. IMHO, this is unacceptable.I



Again, the issue with S&W's isn't with over-pressure loads but with standard pressure loads. The big advantage to the Ruger is that it handles a lifetime of standard pressure loads. The ability to handle heavier loads is just a bonus.



That's a bogus argument. Isn't the next caliber up much higher in pressure? The .454, .480 and .475Linebaugh all operate at higher pressures. So why is the .475 better at 50,000psi but not the .44Mag?

That should be a no brainer. According to you, the N-frames aren't designed for it. #2, the .454, .480 and .475 shoot larger caliber, heavier bullets, which in my experience, is an upgrade in performance. All I've ever seen an increase in pistol bullet velocity do is flatten the trajectory slightly.

 

[cp1969]

Edit to previous post: With regard to the '2000-3000' round problem, my .45LC Blackhawk needed to go back to the factory before it ever fired a shot. The bore and cylinder throats were so mismatched you couldn't hit a barn with it.

 

[CraigC]

That should be a no brainer. According to you, the N-frames aren't designed for it. #2, the .454, .480 and .475 shoot larger caliber, heavier bullets, which in my experience, is an upgrade in performance. All I've ever seen an increase in pistol bullet velocity do is flatten the trajectory slightly.

I agree but sometimes you need either more pressure or more powder to get a heavy bullet up to meaningful velocity. The ability to load longer bullets in the Ruger gets you more velocity at standard pressures. Or even more velocity with greater pressures. Helpful if you want to get the heavyweights over 1200fps in shorter barrels.

 

[hq]

Some have had to have their guns rebuilt after only 2000-3000rds. IMHO, this is unacceptable.

Could it by any chance be an issue of certain vintages of guns? Back in my silhouette shooting days in mid-late 80's a couple of more enthusiastic guys from the club shot anywhere between 3000 and 5000 full power rounds with their 29:s every season. I don't know the details but their guns looked well-worn, year after year.

 

[Intox]

I have a 28" Benelli pump ,stoeger double barrel and a Charles Daly 20 guage pump. All smooth bore with a bead. Illegal to use buck shot here. Haven't put slugs through then yet. Benelli is setup for turkey,the double barrel I use for tree rats/ skeert + trap and the 20 is also a longer barrel. Don't use it much but it was my first shotgun.. my father has .357 marlin with a peep sight and that is one awesome little gun. It'll be mine one day. We work together and have a running joke that I'm always trying to kill him off to get all his guns ,LOL.

But you're right it is kind weird/different to try and handgun hunt exclusively. Stick around the board and you will see many who are very successful doing so. All the pics and stories of guys on doing it,and doing it well is one of the reasons I want to do it. It's a challenge and not for everyone,which I need to find out if it will even work for me. I have a 6" .357 gp100 that I could use with hotter ammunition to hunt with. But been looking into .44's to help give me a little wiggle room in case I flub a shot a bit. Sure I'll do my best to take clear shots accurately. But weird things can happen.Between the handiness of carrying just a handgun,the range at which I hunt and the challenge it provides I'm going to give it a shot .

It's illegal to use buckshot? You mean like a seasonal thing, or a buckshot is illegal for any type of hunting all the time? Dude....if you'll keep me half ass up to speed concerning people running for office that needs support, I'll donate to their campaign. Buckshot is pretty much the gold standard when speaking to humane rounds for hunting.

I'm sure ya'll can use it for home defense and the like though, right? FYI....buckshot has a lot more versatility than people give it. My granddad opened my eyes when I was about 15. It started when we were out baiting some fields for dove season (it was for the kids) and my granddad saw a coyote in the bottom. All he had in the way of a rifle was a .30-.30, and this was decades before all the new ballistics were produced to extend that rifle's range. Making a shot at 100 yards was a steady hand, put it that way. The coyote started running across the backside of the field, meaning he was at least 160-180 yards away. And at a full run. He reached for that rifle, and of course we start talking smack asking him what exactly he thinks he's going to do. I'll be damned he dropped that damn coyote.

But that wasn't the interesting part. That came after. Because he told us if we thought that was something, he had something he wanted to show us. So he pulled out his 12 gauge and proceeded to put on a show. Did you know you can bounce buckshot like a freaking pinball at the arcade? LOL....he showed us some stuff that day that forever changed my way of seeing things. Now...granted, he himself told us a lot of it's luck. But, as he said, you have to understand what that load can do before you can give yourself a chance at that luck. But things like those shields law enforcement uses that are bullet proof/resistant? And understand, in no way am I saying I endorse anyone shooting at law enforcement....but he set up targets to mimic that, and was bouncing buckshot under the shield area into what would be their shins by putting the round just under a foot of where he wanted o bounce them. One thing I never got to try myself, and something he swore by, was that before asbestos was determined to be a real bad thing and it was in all the houses you could bounce buckshot off of it more times than not. Meaning, and this might have been him really selling himself to his grandkids more than anything, that he could bounce buckshot half ass around corners in a house if someone was hiding there.

Complete aside.....that is the first time I've told that entire story in over 30 years. It's why I get real windy on some of my posts here, a few times now a discussion has been going on I chimed in and it lead to me recalling something from my childhood. It's corny I know...but I really enjoy that, and it's one of the reasons I joined this forum when I found it.

 

[MidRoad]

Old stories are always great. Learned something new. And you can own and use buckshot her. Just can't hunt whitetail with it.

 

[FROGO207]

Around where I hunt locally the furthest shots "in the woods" would be 50 yds. most use buck or 30-30 to hunt whitetail. I have used 44 MAG or 45 Colt with success in the past. Practice often at a distance you will be comfortable shooting and get good at stalking before the season. Then it is pretty much a sure thing if you find a whitetail. I feel it takes more patients than anything else but the feeling when hitting the critter is priceless.

 

[buck460XVR]

Lot more to a good handgun than it's capabilities to handle heavy, over SAAMI loads, unless that is the only reason you want the gun. Trigger, balance, ergonomics, accuracy..... all play an integral part, especially when it comes to a range/deer handgun. For general range use and deer hunting there's no legitimate reason or no advantage to use heavy for caliber bullets, extra long bullets or to load them any hotter than published specs. Used to be a day when there was nuttin' more powerful than a .44 in a readily available revolver and so folks abused them with hot loads. Nowadays, that's not the scenario, and there are better platforms and better cartridges that outperform any "Hot" loaded .44. I have nuttin' against Rugers, own a few and have owned others. But they do not walk on water, just as Smiths do not wilt after their first cylinder full. While a female Russian weight lifter is stronger and more durable than a female Canadian figure skater, I know which one I would prefer to Waltz with. Just sayin'.......

BTW....when I buy my sons revolvers, I get them Smiths. They're young and being the original owners and thanks to S&Ws lifetime warranty, will never outlive the guns or ever have to pay to have them repaired. IOWs, regardless of how many rounds they throw downrange, they will have a good revolver to do it with.

 

[Rodentman]

Loving the Smiths but recognizing the limits is a wise comment IMHO. I have this 29-2 which I frankly seldom fire, preferring the Ruger SRH or Smith 629 Hunter. I bought it as a "collectable" and it gets light reloads. Still, something about the older Smiths that is appealing (obviously).....28-2 14-3 etc

 

[CraigC]

Yeah, we're dealing with a lot of misconceptions as a result of that marketing war in the `80's, which had more to do with .357's than .44's. Unfortunately for S&W, it's a lot deeper than the superficial cast vs forged nonsense.

For those who might think me a Ruger fanboy hating on S&W, when I ordered the new .44Spl GP the other day I just bought my 6th N-frame and 12th S&W double action. A 6½" 2nd model Hand Ejector .44Spl.

Lot more to a good handgun than it's capabilities to handle heavy, over SAAMI loads...

Indeed, like being able to feed it a lifetime of factory loads without it shooting loose. As was so eloquently put in this thread, the Ruger allows one to fully explore the potential of the cartridge without fear of damage.

Trigger, balance, ergonomics, accuracy..... all play an integral part, especially when it comes to a range/deer handgun.

And the Rugers are presumably lacking in these areas?

For general range use and deer hunting there's no legitimate reason or no advantage to use heavy for caliber bullets, extra long bullets or to load them any hotter than published specs.

That kinda depends on the individual. Lots of folks just like to shoot these guns. Just like lots of folks like to deer hunt with the .460S&W, even though lesser cartridges will do the same job with less fanfare.

Not to mention that not everyone limits themselves to deer hunting. As such, there is no "legitimate reason" to pigeonhole the .44Mag as a 240gr deer cartridge.

Used to be a day when there was nuttin' more powerful than a .44 in a readily available revolver and so folks abused them with hot loads.

One more time, we're not talking about abuse. We're talking about USE with standard loads. I guess people only see the comments they want to argue with.

BTW....when I buy my sons revolvers, I get them Smiths. They're young and being the original owners and thanks to S&Ws lifetime warranty, will never outlive the guns or ever have to pay to have them repaired. IOWs, regardless of how many rounds they throw downrange, they will have a good revolver to do it with.

This reminds me of a scene in Tommy Boy, the one about guarantees. Lifetime warranties are nice, if you need them. I prefer to not need them. Like I said and pictured already, I have multiples of both. If I want a more refined and slightly stronger .44Spl, I go with a S&W. If I want to shoot heavy hunting loads or mount an optic without removing my rear sight (a Ruger advantage that has not yet been mentioned), I go with a Ruger.

While a female Russian weight lifter is stronger and more durable than a female Canadian figure skater, I know which one I would prefer to Waltz with. Just sayin'.......

You're an X-frame shooter and apparently like them enough to use the model name in your handle and are going to compare a Ruger to a Russian weight lifter and a S&W to a Canadian figure skater? Seriously???

 

[buck460XVR]

Indeed, like being able to feed it a lifetime of factory loads without it shooting loose. As was so eloquently put in this thread, the Ruger allows one to fully explore the potential of the cartridge without fear of damage.

Yep. so stated by you. Yet, even more have eloquently stated they have shot a lifetime of factory loads without shooting their Smiths loose. Who to believe, eh?

And the Rugers are presumably lacking in these areas?

This is a matter of opinion. Triggers, pretty much a unanimous thing. Must be why there are so many threads about it. Why so many ask, "can a Ruger with a trigger job ever match a S&W without?". The larger Cast frames are subjective, kinda like thick burgers and shakes.

That kinda depends on the individual. Lots of folks just like to shoot these guns. Just like lots of folks like to deer hunt with the .460S&W, even though lesser cartridges will do the same job with less fanfare.

Not to mention that not everyone limits themselves to deer hunting. As such, there is no "legitimate reason" to pigeonhole the .44Mag as a 240gr deer cartridge.

I was wonderin' how long before your constant bashing of S&W's cartridge offering would rear it's ugly head......again. Like always it didn't take long and once again it's completely outta content here. Seems you are a tad too infatuated about the topic to let it go. As for the pigeon holing the .44 as a deer cartridge, I did not. The OP stated his reasons for getting one would be for range use and occasional deer hunting, thus my on-topic reply.

One more time, we're not talking about abuse. We're talking about USE with standard loads. I guess people only see the comments they want to argue with.

....and you and your responses are a prime example.

This reminds me of a scene in Tommy Boy, the one about guarantees. Lifetime warranties are nice, if you need them. I prefer to not need them. Like I said and pictured already, I have multiples of both. If I want a more refined and slightly stronger .44Spl, I go with a S&W. If I want to shoot heavy hunting loads or mount an optic without removing my rear sight (a Ruger advantage that has not yet been mentioned), I go with a Ruger.

Lifetime warranties are not given by manufacturers because they think everyone that buys their product is going to need them. Them give them as a indication of the amount of confidence they have in their product. When given to you in writing, they are also there if you ever need them.
BTW...I don't have to remove the rear sight on my 629 to mount an optic, altho like the Ruger, the rear sight is unusable with an optic mounted. I don't see an advantage there worth mentioning.

You're an X-frame shooter and apparently like them enough to use the model name in your handle and are going to compare a Ruger to a Russian weight lifter and a S&W to a Canadian figure skater? Seriously???

Yep....when talking about dancing a Waltz. Now if I needed someone to help push my truck outta the ditch, obviously, my choice would be different. Being a carpenter for most of my life, I owned several different types and sizes of hammers. Like my guns, they are a tool and there are different sizes that are appropriate for different jobs. Just as I don't use a trim hammer to drive pole barn spikes, I don't use a maul to set finish nails. But when I need to move a wall, I grab the maul. Different tools for different jobs altho one could try(and some do) and use one for all.

Again, the issue of the durability of a recent production 629 used regularly with standard SAAMI loads is a non-issue. They will and do take it every day. If not, Ruger fan-boys would not have to argue about it online. They would no longer be produced and in demand. Kinda how it works.