What's the law about my neighbor shooting onto my property

[blackangus]

My neighbor shoots a lot some days. Not just close up pistol but 300 yards at small backed targets. My property is behind the targets and I want to know what recourse I have to assure my property is safe. If I'm not in the correct forum, can you copy this message to a forum or link where it's appropriate. Thank you

 

[mdThanatos]

It would depend on where you live.

 

[Art Eatman]

From a practical standpoint, your security depends on his skill.

Legally, any damage done to your property would be both criminal and civil. It's against the law to shoot onto someone else's property without permission, and there is civil liability for any damages.

Out of curiosity: Do you have improvements in his line of fire, such as house or barn? Any livestock?

Were I in such a situation, I'd do a friendly visit to find out just what his skill level appeared to be. If the back stop is of decent size and he's getting tight groups, odds are that you would not have a problem.

 

[drband]

There are likely some local ordinances concerning firearms discharges if you live in a populated area. Might give the county commission office a call or even google it.
Local article concerning the issue: http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/m/archives/9154/#.V7sPPTEk_90.mailto

 

[Comrade Mike]

I'd open up a conversation with your neighbor and go check out his shooting set up if you're worried. I'd hate to see or hear about anyone getting hurt or having something damaged. Who knows, might get a shooting buddy out of it!


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[entropy]

+1; no use getting confrontational if it's not needed. Might be handy having a 300 yd. range next door.

 

[blackangus]

What's KY law about shooting off your property

My "neighbor" can be a real butthead, He is bitching with another neighbor about 1/2 of the correctly placed fence posts "intruding" onto his property. Obviously he did not spend a dime on the fence.

I have a 340 acre farm with cattle here in Kentucky and he has 7, and even if he is an accurate shooter, what is the law?

 

[Comrade Mike]

My "neighbor" can be a real butthead, He is bitching with another neighbor about 1/2 of the correctly placed fence posts "intruding" onto his property. Obviously he did not spend a dime on the fence.



I have a 340 acre farm with cattle here in Kentucky and he has 7, and even if he is an accurate shooter, what is the law?

It will often depend on your municipality, I don't think anyone here can give you an answer better than your own research can produce. A call to your local city hall may go a long way, they generally have a few people on staff to help people with such legal questions.


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[Bullseye]

Ask yourself if you feel safe to walk on your property behind the backstop or line of fire from your neighbor, even when there is no shooting. If you don't, ask the local police this question and or the game commission authorities if you neighbor can legally do this.
If you feel safe to go cut down a tree or walk your dog "back there" then I don't see a problem.

I have the same scenario out my back door as your neighbor.
However, I asked the land owner if he minded me shooting in the direction of his property. It is a hillside that my missed target shots could hit and maybe on the ground and a slim chance of a standing or fallen tree. ( not likely tho )
He said that certain times of the year his cattle walk through the woods there. I know this is true and rarely some will wander through on the other side of the little creek.
I can clearly see them and I would certainly not shoot during those times. No matter how far off they are from my target line, I would not shoot. Also, there are hunters/trappers that will very occasionally walk the woods over there. I would not shoot at a 12 point buck if I saw another hunter period. I do have permission to shoot and hunt just within my view from my back door. I have not asked permission to hunt on his property, and as of now, I am only allowed to drag a deer off the bank on his property if I safely shoot it from mine.
Some people are respectful and conscientious enough to consider the neighbors. Some are stupid, and some could care less. Maybe your neighbor is stupid and you need to let him know.

 

[Frank Ettin]

....I have a 340 acre farm with cattle here in Kentucky and he has 7, and even if he is an accurate shooter, what is the law?

First, there is a possibility that there are local land use laws or county ordinances regulating the discharge of firearms on one's property. Finding that out would require a fair bit of research.

Second, if you can establish that his shooting presents a danger to your property, persons on your property, your improvements, and/or your livestock, his conduct may be considered a nuisance under Kentucky law. In that case, you could sue your neighbor to to get a court order prohibiting him from shooting toward your property or, perhaps, requiring that he build an appropriate backstop and/or take other action to protect your property.

And of course, if you can establish that he has caused any damage to or on your property, you can sue to recover compensation.

Effectively pursuing any of those options would require engaging your own lawyer to do the necessary research and take the appropriate legal actions.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Onto property.

Where I live and the way I read the law (admittedly years ago), projectiles (bullets, arrows, rocks, etc.) cannot cross property lines or public roads or streets. Your projectile must land within the property you own or have the landowner's permission to use for target shooting or hunting.

Noise complaints even if the projectiles don't cross property lines have shut down a nearby gun club who took the attitude "they knew there was a gun club when they moved into the neighborhood" and wouldn't agree to limits on time. The club I shoot at has a limit on on the rifle/pistol ranges: no shooting on Sunday before 1 pm or after 5 pm due to neighboring church hours. Noise is the cause of more neighbor problems than bullet impact (in the mountains there are a lot of clay banks and other natural barriers) since it's naturally easier to keep bullet impact within a property.

 

[alsaqr]

Any bullet that leaves a firing range and impacts on the land of another person has the name of the shooter on it. Folks have been found civilly and criminally liable for this stuff.

 

[FL-NC]

If you can't (or don't want to) approach the guy about this and work this out, and you feel his activity is (or may be) posing a risk to people or property you own/are responsible for, invite the sheriff over and have a chat about this, and he/she can either intervene or advise you of what steps to take. Its what you pay them to do, and also puts the matter on record in the event things take a hard skidding turn to stupid at a later date. Stray bullets go beyond nuisance or rudeness.

 

[pdsmith505]

Just for fun, I browsed the KY Statutes. The only things that seemed relevant to me, a layman in the field of law, were the Criminal Mischief statutes (KRS 512.20 through KRS 512.40, in their varying degrees) and the Wanton Endangerment statutes (KRS 508.060 and 508.070). The assault statutes (508.010-030, Assault in the First ... Fourth Degree) only seem to apply if you are actually injured. For example:

(1) A person is guilty of criminal mischief in the third degree when:
(a) Having no right to do so or any reasonable ground to believe that he has such
right, he intentionally or wantonly defaces, destroys or damages any property;
or
(b) He tampers with property so as knowingly to endanger the person or property
of another.
(2) Criminal mischief in the third degree is a Class B misdemeanor.

KRS 512.010 defines cattle as property. So, has your property been damaged by his actions? Can you show that your property has been damaged? Is it worth your time and money to pursue the matter?

(1) A person is guilty of wanton endangerment in the second degree when he wantonly
engages in conduct which creates a substantial danger of physical injury to another
person.
(2) Wanton endangerment in the second degree is a Class A misdemeanor.

Have you been subjected to a substantial danger of physical injury by his actions? Can you prove this? Is it worth your time and money to pursue the matter?

The answers to those questions will, as Frank pointed out, have to come from a lawyer. A talk with the Sheriff, if your neighbor is not approachable, might also be a sound idea since these are criminal offenses and the Sheriff might convince the neighbor that his actions are not looked highly upon.

On a lighter note, I suggest that you do not challenge him to a duel over the matter. It seems as though he has more practice, and further, it is illegal in KY:

Any person who, in this state, challenges another to fight with any deadly weapon, in or
out of this state, and any person who accepts the challenge, shall be fined five hundred
dollars ($500) and imprisoned for not less than six (6) nor more than twelve (12) months.
Any person who knowingly carries or delivers such a challenge in this state, or consents
in this state to be a second to either party shall be fined one hundred dollars ($100) and
imprisoned for thirty (30) days.

 

[entropy]

Del.

 

[entropy]

Invite the sherriff over and stand on your property line when your neighbor is shooting. You'd get a practical ruling, and the neighbor might get the message.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Just for fun, I browsed the KY Statutes. The only things that seemed relevant to me, a layman in the field of law, were the Criminal Mischief statutes (KRS 512.20 through KRS 512.40, in their varying degrees) and the Wanton Endangerment statutes (KRS 508.060 and 508.070). The assault statutes (508.010-030, Assault in the First ... Fourth Degree) only seem to apply if you are actually injured....

I wouldn't start looking under Kentucky's criminal law.

The law of trespass, nuisance and abatement of a nuisance are really civil matters. So I had a look in KRS Chapter 411. Private nuisance seems to be addressed in KRS 411.500 to 411.570. There seems to be very little statutory law on the subject in Kentucky, so understanding the law of private nuisance in Kentucky would, it appears, be primarily a matter of reviewing Kentucky common law (court decisions) on the subject.

For background, a basic definition of a private nuisance is:

A private nuisance is a civil wrong that affects a single individual or a definite number of persons in the enjoyment of some private right which is not common to the public. In other words, a private nuisance is a substantial and unreasonable interference with the private use and enjoyment of one’s land. Examples include interference with the physical condition of the land, disturbing the comfort of its occupants, or threatening future injury or disturbance....

 

[pdsmith505]

I think the nuisance angle might be a dead end for him due to KRS 237.200 through .220. Assuming his neighbor has operated his backyard shooting range for more than a year, and noise levels haven't tripled...

As used in KRS 237.210 and 237.220:
(1) "Shooting range" or "range" means an area designated and operated by a person for
the shooting of firearms and not available for that use by the general public without
payment of a fee, membership contribution, or dues, or by invitation of an
authorized person; or any area so designated and operated by a unit of government,
regardless of the terms of admission thereto.

...

(1) No shooting range shall be or shall become a nuisance, either public or private,
solely as a result of changed conditions in or around the locality of the range if the
range has been in operation for one (1) year since the date on which it commenced
operation as a shooting range. Subsequent physical expansion of the range or
expansion of the types of firearms in use at the range shall not establish a new date
of commencement of operations for purposes of this section unless the change
triples the amount of the noise produced by the shooting range. The increase in the
noise level at the shooting range shall be measured by an independent testing
agency or a unit of government and shall compare the highest noise levels during
any one (1) month during which the range is in full operation with a subsequent
month in which the range is in full operation and conducting a comparable level of
shooting activities. Only a person who lives adjacent to the shooting range shall
have standing to bring an action under this section.

...

 

[Frank Ettin]

I think the nuisance angle might be a dead end for him due to KRS 237.200 through .220....

Thank you and good catch.

This helps illustrate why the OP really needs his own lawyer. The question becomes whether the neighbor's use of his property for shooting constitutes the operation of a shooting range for the purposes of these statutes.

Answering that question requires information we don't have: (1) exactly what is the neighbor doing and how is he doing it; (2) how long has he been doing it; (3) has what he's doing and how changed, and if so when; and (4) what have the appellate courts of the Commonwealth of Kentucky said about these statutes and how they apply.

 

[MoreIsLess]

My "neighbor" can be a real butthead, He is bitching with another neighbor about 1/2 of the correctly placed fence posts "intruding" onto his property. Obviously he did not spend a dime on the fence.

I have a 340 acre farm with cattle here in Kentucky and he has 7, and even if he is an accurate shooter, what is the law?

As a side note, if your neighbor is bitching about the fence post barely intruding on his property, he might be worried about it affecting the sale-ability of his property if he ever decides to sell it. While your neighbor might not expect the post to be moved, it might prevent someone from purchasing his property should he decide to sell it if they don't want to deal with the legal hassle of forcing it to be moved.

 

[Elkins45]

I think the nuisance angle might be a dead end for him due to KRS 237.200 through .220. Assuming his neighbor has operated his backyard shooting range for more than a year, and noise levels haven't tripled...

Just another example of why I love this forum. I had no idea we had any sort of range protection statutes until this post.

 

[pdsmith505]

Just another example of why I love this forum. I had no idea we had any sort of range protection statutes until this post.

I was really happy to see that one as well. We hear all the time about ranges in CA getting shut down because the urban blight has spread to the sticks and the NIMBY types didn't realize there was a gun range.

 

[HankB]

You might check on what the laws are regarding shooting ranges not just in your state, but in your county as well; some places require a minimum of 10 acres to shoot; if that's the case in your county, your neighbor with a 7 acre property would seem to be in violation.

 

[MIL-DOT]

Do you have any reason to believe the neighbor is behaving in a way that is a genuine threat to you or your property? Have you had any damage, or seen round impacts on your property ? From what I've read so far, this is still all hypothetical.
Also,what exactly does "small backed targets" mean? Is he shooting at "small, backed targets", or "small-backed targets"? In other words, are you saying just the targets are small, or the backdrops he's using are small (and therefore possibly unsafe) ?
Also, would any rounds that missed or penetrated the backdrop, keep going for a good distance on your property, or are would they be going right into the dirt or side of a hill?
Anyway, before spending money consulting an attorney for what might not be worth the trouble, I'd run it by the first cop you came across, and see what his opinion is. (and yes, I realize this doesn't equal or trump geniune attorney advice.)

 

[bubba in ca]

I doubt seriously a private range that is not open for hire would have any legal standing in most areas.
You are just an individual property owner having fun on his property or threatening the property of others, depending on the circumstances.