When criminals use their smartphones to make themselves look innocent and you look bad

[GearheadExplorer85]

Hey everyone:

Let's say you were being antagonized/assaulted by a group and when you fought back, one of them records you with their phone to make you look like the bad guy. This could apply in a defensive shooting too. Example: two or more perpetrators try robbing someone, the victim pulls a gun and shoots one of the perpetrators. Of course, one of the other perpetrators starts recording after the victim starts shooting back, so they don't incriminate themselves.

1) If the perpetrator reached the police first and claimed that they were shot at unprovoked, would the police give any credibility to the perpetrator/video? Or would this strategy backfire on the perpetrators somehow?

2) How would you respond if you found yourself in this situation?

3) Are there any ways to protect yourself when someone records you with the intent to frame you?

I'm not sure how often these kind of scenarios happened 15+ years ago when smartphones didn't exist. Sure, camcorders existed long before smartphones were around. But in this day and age where everyone has a smartphone on them, it seems like it would be a really easy way for criminals to get off scot free.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts about this.

Thanks!

 

[Jeff White]

1) If the perpetrator reached the police first and claimed that they were shot at unprovoked, would the police give any credibility to the perpetrator/video?

Of course they would. Why wouldn’t they, they weren’t there. This exact situation happened a lot before there was video everywhere. We use to call it a “he said, she said situation”. That’s why it’s always been good advice to be the first one to complain.

Or would this strategy backfire on the perpetrators somehow?

It could, with cameras everywhere in public these days there is a chance that another camera recorded the whole story.

2) How would you respond if you found yourself in this situation?

I would do everything possible to deescalate the situation so I didn’t appear to be the aggressor.

3) Are there any ways to protect yourself when someone records you with the intent to frame you

Do your best to avoid getting in that situation. Never appear to be the aggressor. Be the first on the phone with 911.

 

[Old Dog]

I can't really add anything to what Jeff said with regard to protecting one's self.

What I do know about criminals and cell phones is that what is on a criminal's phone is far more likely to be good evidence of a crime he/she committed than any activity recorded of a law-abiding citizen.

A lot of our younger miscreants have actually taken selfies or recorded themselves which has provided proof of their activities. We nailed a teenage girl a few years back who'd posted a picture of herself on Facebook, holding the gun she'd used to murder her drug dealer, with the photo titled something like, "I just did a rip and had to shoot the guy." Social media has enabled a lot of detectives/investigators to close a lot of cases. Then there's the aspect of how smartphones track you everywhere. Greatest boon to tying bad people to crime scenes ever!

Let's say you were being antagonized/assaulted by a group and when you fought back,

Little unclear how this would look. Assaulted by a group while you are alone? Are you basing this scenario on an actual event?

 

[shafter]

The police are going to throughly investigate all sides of any shooting. Being the first one to call isn't going to decide a case. All witnesses and participants will be interviewed, any cameras such as mounted on buildings, cell phone recordings, or even dash cams or even Teslas in the area will be examined and potentially seized to be examined pending a search warrant. Do a scan yourself if you can and make sure your attorney is aware of them. It's almost a matter of routine now to get search warrants for cell phones these days and the information they provide is extensive to say the least.

A non lethal incident will likely not be examined as closely especially if there's no serious injury or firearms involved.

As always, avoid trouble to the best of your ability, don't instigate or antagonize or try to have the last word. Make sure that any cameras are recording you doing the right thing by walking away, descalting and maintaining non aggressive posture and language. Video footage can still be your friend if it records you doing the right thing.

 

[GearheadExplorer85]

I can't really add anything to what Jeff said with regard to protecting one's self.

What I do know about criminals and cell phones is that what is on a criminal's phone is far more likely to be good evidence of a crime he/she committed than any activity recorded of a law-abiding citizen.

A lot of our younger miscreants have actually taken selfies or recorded themselves which has provided proof of their activities. We nailed a teenage girl a few years back who'd posted a picture of herself on Facebook, holding the gun she'd used to murder her drug dealer, with the photo titled something like, "I just did a rip and had to shoot the guy." Social media has enabled a lot of detectives/investigators to close a lot of cases. Then there's the aspect of how smartphones track you everywhere. Greatest boon to tying bad people to crime scenes ever!

Little unclear how this would look. Assaulted by a group while you are alone? Are you basing this scenario on an actual event?

Thanks for the response. To answer your questions, this is not based on something that actually happened. The scenario I had in my mind is if I was alone in an underground parking garage or other secluded area where I might not have immediate access to a phone (or signal reception) to call 911 first.

That story you told about the girl taking a picture of herself with her gun after shooting someone with it...is that what detectives consider a slam dunk? Based on your real life experience, it seems I am overestimating the intelligence of the common criminal. But I'm sure there are a handful out there that know how to game the system to their advantage. Those are the ones I worry about.

Of course if I was in this situation, I would do everything possible to extricate myself from the situation before resorting to violence.

 

[CopperClad]

Today, you must ASSUME you are being recorded anywhere, at anytime. Whether it's a street issue or driving your car and being messed with. All the time, everywhere.

Best solution is avoidance, second is no matter how right you are, there is the video. Better be recording from your side too.

 

[Outlaw75]

A lot of our younger miscreants have actually taken selfies or recorded themselves which has provided proof of their activities. We nailed a teenage girl a few years back who'd posted a picture of herself on Facebook, holding the gun she'd used to murder her drug dealer, with the photo titled something like, "I just did a rip and had to shoot the guy." Social media has enabled a lot of detectives/investigators to close a lot of cases. Then there's the aspect of how smartphones track you everywhere. Greatest boon to tying bad people to crime scenes ever!

They just busted two clowns (18 & 16) in Las Vegas who purposely ran down a 64 year old man out on his early morning bike ride. They videoed themselves talking about it, then doing it and then put it out on the internet. Victim didn't survive his injuries, sadly.

 

[Kleanbore]

yIf you see someone pointing a phone at tou while you are standing or walking, do not pause to wonder, Video is an integral part of the knockout game.

Stop, turn, and move offline immediately.

 

[The Night Rider]

You should always assume that you're being audio and video recorded. Even in your own home.

I had a rule that I lived by when I was working "If somebody's paying an inordinate amount of attention to you you'd better be in paying attention to them. Because they're probably trying to decide if you're a mark or not."

The supplies to somebody going out of their way to videotape you. If somebody's pointing a phone at you you need to get moving immediately

 

[drobs]

Last I looked I couldn't find the video, but Paul Harrell recommends carrying a smart phone with camera & video capability when CCW'ing. Plus using it immediately during / after a confrontation.

 

[The Night Rider]

Last I looked I couldn't find the video, but Paul Harrell recommends carrying a smart phone with camera & video capability when CCW'ing. Plus using it immediately during / after a confrontation.

I remember that video and I remember him talking about an altercation he got in when he was a kid and by the time he made it home the other kid had already called the police

 

[Old Dog]

Last I looked I couldn't find the video, but Paul Harrell recommends carrying a smart phone with camera & video capability when CCW'ing. Plus using it immediately during / after a confrontation.

I remember that particular video, and I also remember kind of snickering about the idea of pulling out one's phone and starting to immediately video-record during and after a confrontation. Unless one is an experienced gunfighter (and I don't know any of those since I got out of the military), one is likely going to be experiencing the shakes something awful in the aftermath of the event, especially if shots were fired, someone is injured or dead, and subsequent adrenaline dump. Your primary use of a cell phone will probably be to call 911. Ask any 911 operator/dispatcher how those calls go when someone's calling in to report they've just had an armed encounter with another human being. I remember handing a bottle of water to a guy right after he'd been carjacked at gunpoint and the guy had a death grip on the bottle, hands were shaking and he was squeezing out the water and spilling it all over, could barely manage a coherent sentence; all he'd done was immediately vacate his vehicle and the bad guys drove off. The guy tried taking his phone out of his pocket again to call his wife, struggled to get it out of the pocket and then use it.

My point is, I think few people have the make-up that will allow them to be cool, calm and collected in the face of a potential attack, and especially, in the midst of, or the aftermath of a violent incident. We preach mind-set and situational awareness on this forum constantly, but in practice, most people demonstrate neither.

The folks who whip out their smartphones and start recording serious events are almost always people who always have their phone in their hand, are dependent on their phones, and are not the actual victims in an incident. And they are always totally clueless about the seriousness of the events transpiring in front of them (unless they are part of the party instigating an event).

 

[Beck]

Good officers and detectives will sort it out no matter what the initial video looks like. Despite cameras being everywhere these days, changing what you know about armed or unarmed self defense for fear of cameras may get you killed.

Commit yourself to the fight if you or someone else who needs help is threatened with great bodily harm. Ignore the cameras. Criminals have been blaming victims long before everyone was carrying smart phones. Seasoned, well trained police officers know this.

There's a scripture that comes to mind from the book of Proverbs:

"The first one to plead his cause seems right, until his neighbor comes and examines him."
Proverbs 18:17

 

[Riomouse911]

Phones have put a LOT of alibis under the microscope, both exonerating the innocent and piling additional evidence on the guilty. One can see how easy it can be to convict the chronic phone users; probably the dumbest crook ever was live-streaming her looting during recent unrest in Philly. Kinda hard to use the “Shaggy defense” in that case (aka: It wasn’t me!)

Your smart phone, your smart car, even your home devices (Alexa, Ring doorbell, etc.) are almost always communicating. The data they create can literally leave a time-stamped path of your travels, of your calls/messages, your video or still images and your internet search history.

As for being first to call, as it is investigated and the evidence points to what actually happened, the first to report becomes just a part of the case.

Stay safe.

 

[Kleanbore]

Good post, Rio

 

[Outlaw75]

Your smart phone, your smart car, even your home devices (Alexa, Ring doorbell, etc.) are almost always communicating.

Not just your stuff, everyone else's Ring doorbell or surveillance camera is picking you up.

 

[shafter]

The Tesla cameras are always running and capture everything around them for 360 degrees and the data is obtainable by law enforcement.

Nowadays you have to assume that everything you do outside your home is being recorded and unless you take steps to eliminate it, you are being recorded inside your home too.

 

[The Night Rider]

Nowadays you have to assume that everything you do outside your home is being recorded and unless you take steps to eliminate it, you are being recorded inside your home too.

I wouldn't assume you weren't being surveilled inside your house. Especially if you have any smart devices in there at all.

One of the first assignments I ever did for Allied Universal was working at an investment broker called T. Rowe Price.

I had never heard of T. Rowe Price prior to my interview.

I made a very specific point while I was working I've never naming the place where I worked online. I didn't want anybody to see some random posts that I made and connected with me and get me fired because of it. So I always called T. Rowe Price "Nakatomi Plaza" online, mostly because our security uniform is very similar to what the security guards and DieHard were wearing.

So, I said all that to say this, about a week after I started working there we started getting bombarded with television commercials for T. Rowe Price.

And the only place that I had ever said the words T. Rowe Price were inside my apartment talking to my wife.

 

[shafter]

I wouldn't assume you weren't being surveilled inside your house. Especially if you have any smart devices in there at all.

One of the first assignments I ever did for Allied Universal was working at an investment broker called T. Rowe Price.

I had never heard of T. Rowe Price prior to my interview.

I made a very specific point while I was working I've never naming the place where I worked online. I didn't want anybody to see some random posts that I made and connected with me and get me fired because of it. So I always called T. Rowe Price "Nakatomi Plaza" online, mostly because our security uniform is very similar to what the security guards and DieHard were wearing.

So, I said all that to say this, about a week after I started working there we started getting bombarded with television commercials for T. Rowe Price.

And the only place that I had ever said the words T. Rowe Price were inside my apartment talking to my wife.

Exactly right. That's why I said unless you take steps to prevent it inside your home such as not having smart devices such as tvs, tablets, or phones or anything else internet capable.