natedog
Member
How do these private security guys get weapons? Are they limited to what any civilian can legally buy in the US?
When Private Armies Take to the Front Lines
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7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
444
Think of it as an all expenses paid trip with exotic weapons, free ammo, and no bag limit (when the ROE allows). And a generous salary/bonus and benefits program.
Some risks are involved, such as RPGs, high velocity lead, roadside IED, mob violence, and desecration.
Think of it as an all expenses paid trip with exotic weapons, free ammo, and no bag limit (when the ROE allows). And a generous salary/bonus and benefits program.
Some risks are involved, such as RPGs, high velocity lead, roadside IED, mob violence, and desecration.
7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
Server is slow....dupe. My bad. Mea culpa, etc.
7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
Natedog,
Blackwater has a a few....contacts. There is no NFA, GCA, FOPA or AWB in the "world" market. DOD just purchased 10s of thousands of AK-47s from Poland for $59 per for the Iraqi police. Not only can you get them, but they are pretty cheap.
Think of it this way: LE in this country obtain Glocks for 67% of what we pay.
I imagine that the MP5 goes for about 5 large in a free market. M4 is less.
Blackwater has a a few....contacts. There is no NFA, GCA, FOPA or AWB in the "world" market. DOD just purchased 10s of thousands of AK-47s from Poland for $59 per for the Iraqi police. Not only can you get them, but they are pretty cheap.
Think of it this way: LE in this country obtain Glocks for 67% of what we pay.
I imagine that the MP5 goes for about 5 large in a free market. M4 is less.
"How do these private security guys get weapons?"
I don't know, but logic would tell you that they are issued most of their gear from the company. Since they are not in the US, US laws don't apply. If you look at their pictures, most of them are carrying the same weapons as the US military. In other words, M4s. Here is a link to photos of these snake eaters in action: http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/Close_Protection
They don't tell you WHO is in these photos, but we know from the articles on this recent flap that Paul Bremer is being guarded by private security.
I don't know, but logic would tell you that they are issued most of their gear from the company. Since they are not in the US, US laws don't apply. If you look at their pictures, most of them are carrying the same weapons as the US military. In other words, M4s. Here is a link to photos of these snake eaters in action: http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/Close_Protection
They don't tell you WHO is in these photos, but we know from the articles on this recent flap that Paul Bremer is being guarded by private security.
jnojr
Member
There are a lot of places in the world where all sorts of weapons can be bought *very* cheaply.
But even here, there's no reason why a security company can't buy all sorts of goodies. Remember, full-auto weapons *aren't* illegal... they're just very restricted and taxed. A good-sized company with a few million in revenue can easily make sure that they'll get the required paperwork to not only own full-auto weapons, but to buy cool stuff directly from the factory. I would imagine that even things like grenades, plastic explosives, anti-tank weapons, etc. are just as procurable if you have the right contacts.
An aside... in all of these articles about private security people, Fijians are mentioned right along with Ghurkhas, ex-SAS, etc. Why is that? I've never heard any "legends" about what fantastic warriors Pacific Islanders make.
natedog
Member
$5K seems like a bit much...I think the LEO price is $1500.
7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
5 large TO ME is 5 hundred 
natedog
Member
I'm 14, so 5 large TO ME is $5
ThreadKiller
Member
Still votin' for Bush.
Tim
Tim
Moparmike
Member
I suppose I will jump on the bandwagon...
Ugh. I know he has an agenda, but I just dont know what it is for this particular thread. Maybe we should all become mercenaries.
Ugh. I know he has an agenda, but I just dont know what it is for this particular thread. Maybe we should all become mercenaries.
7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
According to the new terminology, as defined by the left, if you work for money, then you are a mercenary.
You'll get accustomed to it over time.
Call yourself a "merc" and it is really kool
You'll get accustomed to it over time.
Call yourself a "merc" and it is really kool
He's a Troll, nothing more, it's not even debatable, or Iffy, he's a Troll.
Check out his list of posts You see that the only posts he doesn't have copying and pasting "Bait" are his posts whining about having a thread closed.
He's a Troll.
7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
Kim,
Don't sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel.
rock jock
Member
As much as I find w4's typical ranting and whining distasteful, I found nothng repugnant in this article. These guys are hired guns. That is a term I have always heard and always associated with private security forces. As far as the Bush administration using hired guns to fulfill some roles, that is nothing new. Shifting expenses around to different cost centers to make the books look better is something corporate America does everyday. Only the sheeple are fooled. I for one, however, think this is a foolish use of resources. A well-trained active-duty member of the spec ops community makes about 1/10 of what these guys are pulling down. I don't begrudge anybody making a profit but when it comes to my tax dollars I want the optimum use of resources. This is not it.
Good golly people. Quit your whining about the alleged "troll." What do you want on this board, a bunch of people that only agree with you? You're the one posting on his thread.
If you want to surround yourself with people that only agree with you, go somewhere else. In the mean time, there's good debate to be had here, so stop sucking up the bandwidth.
I'm cool with private security contractors. They can be hired for specific talents without the burden of the military red tape. What would you prefer? Should we fire up all the National Guard units and truck them over there to play bodyguard?
FYI, most Blackwater contractors make about $650 per day. That's less than $250K per year for risking your life. Didn't pay off in the long run for the 4 Blackwaters that just bit it, now did it? Don't bother comparing it to being in the army, as the army defends our way of life, our freedom, our liberty, etc. The contractors are basically just paid money to risk their lives for someone else's safety.
I'll stay here with my family at my job making way less than that, thanks.
If you want to surround yourself with people that only agree with you, go somewhere else. In the mean time, there's good debate to be had here, so stop sucking up the bandwidth.
I'm cool with private security contractors. They can be hired for specific talents without the burden of the military red tape. What would you prefer? Should we fire up all the National Guard units and truck them over there to play bodyguard?
FYI, most Blackwater contractors make about $650 per day. That's less than $250K per year for risking your life. Didn't pay off in the long run for the 4 Blackwaters that just bit it, now did it? Don't bother comparing it to being in the army, as the army defends our way of life, our freedom, our liberty, etc. The contractors are basically just paid money to risk their lives for someone else's safety.
I'll stay here with my family at my job making way less than that, thanks.
HBK
member
So exactly what the hell is the point of this thread?
7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
Drift
gunsmith
member
Liberal Propaganda
Seize the Time magazine and throw it in the garbage bin
Seize the Time magazine and throw it in the garbage bin
gunsmith
member
you're living in yer own Private Idaho
Get out of the State your in!
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=919582#post919582
Get out of the State your in!
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=919582#post919582
w4rma
member
You pay $1744.99* per year for the army you already have? Now we are going to spend another 15bn* on mercenaries? That would be a nearly 15%* increase over the DoD’s own spending on “military personnelâ€. We are slowly privatizing our military and still pay more than ever.
*Estimates
Figures For Estimates Taken From:
Annual Estimates of the Resident Population by Selected Age Groups for the United States and States: July 1, 2003 and April 1, 2000
FISCAL 2004 DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE BUDGET RELEASE
Iraq occupation "privatised"
Bush signs record $87 billion plan for postwar Iraq
Mercs have other uses for totalitarian governments.
Sure, they can't compare with regulars in bravery, but they are more willing to do other things, like massacre prisoners or civilians. Think King Henry V at Agincourt or the CIA's war in Laos during 'Nam.
Regular troops are notoriously reluctant to fire on their own civilians. Example: New Iraqi Army units turned on Coalition troops during the Shia uprising yesterday rather than attack the Medhi Army (link). Mercs are what you want when you turn a free speech zone into a free fire zone.
The military can deal with such people with the UCMJ, which has the power of law over military personel and punishes such things. All a company could do to a deserter is sue for breach of contract.
Can someone explain why Bremer et al as well as these folks in Najaf are guarded by Blackwater mercs rather than U.S. military?
*Estimates
Figures For Estimates Taken From:
Annual Estimates of the Resident Population by Selected Age Groups for the United States and States: July 1, 2003 and April 1, 2000
FISCAL 2004 DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE BUDGET RELEASE
Iraq occupation "privatised"
Bush signs record $87 billion plan for postwar Iraq
Mercs have other uses for totalitarian governments.
Sure, they can't compare with regulars in bravery, but they are more willing to do other things, like massacre prisoners or civilians. Think King Henry V at Agincourt or the CIA's war in Laos during 'Nam.
Regular troops are notoriously reluctant to fire on their own civilians. Example: New Iraqi Army units turned on Coalition troops during the Shia uprising yesterday rather than attack the Medhi Army (link). Mercs are what you want when you turn a free speech zone into a free fire zone.
The military can deal with such people with the UCMJ, which has the power of law over military personel and punishes such things. All a company could do to a deserter is sue for breach of contract.
Can someone explain why Bremer et al as well as these folks in Najaf are guarded by Blackwater mercs rather than U.S. military?
Cool Hand Luke 22:36
member
God love'em. Those pranksters at CIA did a number on the Pathet Lao for a while didn't they. They should've killed more IMHO, that might've saved Laos from the vastly larger bloodbath at the hands of the communists that happened after '75.
That was right around the time frame where Democrat Pres. Jiminie Peanut began the systematic dismemberment of the CIA's human intelligence networks overseas. As a result we had the onset of fundamentalist Islamic terrorism sponsored by Iran that we're still dealing with today. Leads me to believe that a Democrat President is like a veneral disease, i.e., a gift that keeps on giving. And of course Lurch sKerry is a strong supporter of this approach as is demonstrated by his endless votes to defund American intelligence capability over the years.
0007
Member
Kim -
Don't be insulting whales that way or white folks for that matter..
I seriously doubt that any reporter who writes that these guys a getting $1,000.00/day has any better control over the truth in any of his other blatherings. But it's always fun to watch the trolls get caught up in another net of bias and untruths. Time "magazine" more drivel from the DNC.
The short story is that these guys are there BECAUSE THE MILITARY (contrary to the ignorance of some people) IS NOT A PRIVATE GUARD/SECURITY ORGANIZATION. If you want to have your private organization or person guarded over there, do like good, rich, liberals* do everywhere and hire your own private security force.
*refer to "white whale"
Don't be insulting whales that way or white folks for that matter..
I seriously doubt that any reporter who writes that these guys a getting $1,000.00/day has any better control over the truth in any of his other blatherings. But it's always fun to watch the trolls get caught up in another net of bias and untruths. Time "magazine" more drivel from the DNC.
The short story is that these guys are there BECAUSE THE MILITARY (contrary to the ignorance of some people) IS NOT A PRIVATE GUARD/SECURITY ORGANIZATION. If you want to have your private organization or person guarded over there, do like good, rich, liberals* do everywhere and hire your own private security force.
*refer to "white whale"
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