Where are guns being purchased online without background checks?

[fouled bore]

I am seeing that the EO states that it will eliminate gun purchases online without background checks. Where online are guns being sold without background checks? Doesn't Gun Broker and others require the the gun be shipped to a FFL for the transfer?

 

[Jeff H]

Armlist.com for one.

Granted, this is designed for personal sales, but in state, there is no background checks since you won't be going through an FFL.

 

[Sam1911]

It surely won't eliminate any such thing.


However to answer your question, if two folks are residents of the same state they may conduct a sale of a firearm between them without any background checking. (Assuming that their state law does not prohibit that, which few do.) Doesn't matter whether they do the deal over coffee at a diner, in one's driveway, through the local paper classifieds, or over an online service. It is even lawful (in most states) to do the transaction and transfer entirely by mail without ever having met -- again if both are residents of the same state.

This executive action says that IF someone is "in the business of" dealing in guns (which is loosely defined as buying and selling guns as a regular course of BUSINESS, for profit) then using online services to do so does not negate your need to get a Federal Firearms License.

It does NOT somehow restrict private sellers from being able to make deals on line.

 

[yugorpk]

I don't know where they get the bit about online gun sales. I recognize that it is entirely possible to buy and sell a gun online in state without going through an FFL at all or ever meeting the person you are selling a gun to. Ive done it where I sold a integrally silenced gun to a guy across state. He got his NFA stuff all together, the ATF sent me his stamp and there was no reason for me or him to drive 300 miles .

Why pick on private person to person online sales? Its no different from "newspaper sales" or "bulletin board sales".

 

[Jim Watson]

yugorpk:
How did you ship that gun? Although intrastate shipment of a firearm is legal, I have never heard of anybody able to find a common carrier willing to take it.

 

[stonecutter2]

yugorpk:
How did you ship that gun? Although intrastate shipment of a firearm is legal, I have never heard of anybody able to find a common carrier willing to take it.

Was curious about this myself.

 

[Spats McGee]

Why pick on private person to person online sales? Its no different from "newspaper sales" or "bulletin board sales".

Because BHO and The Antigun Squad have invested a lot of time and effort into pushing the Myth of the Online Gun Sale, much like they've invested so much into The Gunshow Loophole.

 

[JFtheGR8]

I most definitely can buy a gun online without a background check. Picking it up from the FFL without having one done would be a problem. See, Obama isn't lying when he stands on the soap box and tries to make the general public react in shock about being able to buy a gun online so easily. He's omitting the part about having to get it shipped to an FFL and completing a background check to actually take possession. He's trying to get a reaction from the sheep is all.

 

[weblance]

I most definitely can buy a gun online without a background check. Picking it up from the FFL without having one done would be a problem. See, Obama isn't lying when he stands on the soap box and tries to make the general public react in shock about being able to buy a gun online so easily. He's omitting the part about having to get it shipped to an FFL and completing a background check to actually take possession. He's trying to get a reaction from the sheep is all.

Thats exactly it, right there. My wife said to me... I didn't know you can buy a gun online without a background check. Does it ship to the house? I told that you cant, without a background check. She said "But the president just said you could"...

 

[tarosean]

Where are guns being purchased online without background checks?

Have you never seen the classified ads in this forum? Plus many other forums, online classifieds and numerous other sites that allow the sale of firearms between individuals.

Best not to bury your head in the sand on this, cause it does happen routinely.

 

[Grmlin]

I'm not yugorpk, but I used UPS to ship an old family shotgun to my sister.

 

[barnbwt]

"Have you never seen the classified ads in this forum? Plus many other forums, online classifieds and numerous other sites that allow the sale of firearms between individuals."
Man, even Armslist/Craigslist/Facebook aren't 'online sales.' No money changes hands until in person, nor is even any binding agreement reached (tons of stories of bait/switch tools on those sites). If there is anybody actually taking payments online, and shipping the weapons out directly to residential addresses (in-state, obviously), it is certainly not a common occurrence, and likely out of ignorance rather than malice. Pretty much everyone I've dealt with or even heard of either meets in person or ships to an FFL, just as a show of good faith.

Well, everyone intending to comply with the laws, anyway...but luckily, Obama just outlawed the hushed transactions going on in countless back-alleys in Democrat Gun Control Strongholds between felons. Mission Accomplished.

"Why pick on private person to person online sales? Its no different from "newspaper sales" or "bulletin board sales"."
1) Because no one reads newspapers or bulletin boards
2) Because the bandwidth of those sources is tiny (doesn't support many sellers compared to Gunbroker)
3) Because people don't communicate, learn, and become dissatisfied with the gun control regime through newspapers (ha!) or bulletin boards

TCB

 

[gspn]

Gunbroker can't prevent you from shipping directly to a buyer. On GB, once the sale takes place they get their cut and they are out of the process. The payment and shipping options are solely at the discretion of the buyer and seller. I've sold several guns on GB and I went to great pains to ensure I was doing everything in a legal fashion.

I'd say that about half the people I sold to asked me to ship the gun directly to them, by US mail. They were trying to save money, but they were asking me to underwrite the savings by doing things illegally.

Each time I tell them I can't do that, then they send me the info on their FFL. I look up the place to see if they are legit, then I ship it overnight via FedEx policy to their FFL.

At that point the FFL does the background check on them.

The only thing keeping it legal is my desire to do so...kind of like everything else a law abiding citizen does.

 

[oneounceload]

I didn't know you can buy a gun online without a background check. Does it ship to the house? I told that you cant, without a background check

Depends if you also include the payment part. Many guns are sold online, MO sent to seller, gun shipped directly to buyer.

 

[tarosean]

Man, even Armslist/Craigslist/Facebook aren't 'online sales.'

I beg to differ... I find them the same way I find guns for sale at legitimate Online dealers. Won auctions from many individuals and payed "online" if thats your definition for an online sale.

In addition, many many people can buy a gun from anywhere or any store without a background check... Heck, I havent done one in well over a decade...

As many states allow to skip that step with a Concealed Carry License...

 

[jmr40]

I've sold, actually traded guns via an online website once. I posted a rifle for sale and was made an offer of a trade. I met the individual in a public parking lot at 11 AM, we both agreed the trade was fair to both parties, swapped guns and went our separate ways. All perfectly legal, no different than posting a for sale ad on the local shooting range bulletin board or in the paper.

The new EO's do not make this illegal, at least if I'm understanding the wording. As far as I can tell the only people this will affect are the "private sellers" who are at every gun show with a table. For guys like me who just tire of a gun and want to sell or trade I don't think there are any changes. But I'm gonna wait until I get more info before I'd say I'm 100% correct.

 

[Sam1911]

The new EO's do not make this illegal, at least if I'm understanding the wording. As far as I can tell the only people this will affect are the "private sellers" who are at every gun show with a table. For guys like me who just tire of a gun and want to sell or trade I don't think there are any changes. But I'm gonna wait until I get more info before I'd say I'm 100% correct.

You appear to be 100% correct.

 

[greyghost01]

Most people I think either consign them at a gun shop or sell them to a gun shop for the simple reason then it has to be documented that you sold it and also documented who bought it, So if something goes wrong you don't get blamed for it. Very few people sell guns in the alley anymore, I haven't sold a gun with out going through a gun shop in years for just this reason. This way its documented I sold it, I haven't been to a gun show in years that they do a back ground check right then and there, Or you don't get the gun.

 

[CLP]

...Doesn't matter whether they do the deal over coffee at a diner, in one's driveway, through the local paper classifieds, or over an online service. It is even lawful (in most states) to do the transaction and transfer entirely by mail without ever having met -- again if both are residents of the same state.

or the parking lot of Chik-Fil-A...

 

[Warp]

It surely won't eliminate any such thing.


However to answer your question, if two folks are residents of the same state they may conduct a sale of a firearm between them without any background checking. (Assuming that their state law does not prohibit that, which few do.) Doesn't matter whether they do the deal over coffee at a diner, in one's driveway, through the local paper classifieds, or over an online service. It is even lawful (in most states) to do the transaction and transfer entirely by mail without ever having met -- again if both are residents of the same state.

This executive action says that IF someone is "in the business of" dealing in guns (which is loosely defined as buying and selling guns as a regular course of BUSINESS, for profit) then using online services to do so does not negate your need to get a Federal Firearms License.

It does NOT somehow restrict private sellers from being able to make deals on line.

Exactly this ^

yugorpk:
How did you ship that gun? Although intrastate shipment of a firearm is legal, I have never heard of anybody able to find a common carrier willing to take it.

You go to FedEx and ship it. It's not hard.

I think you can use UPS too, but I haven't since you have to go to the hub even just for ammo, technically according to their policies, and FedEx will take a gun at one of their common little centers.

You may even be able to ship a long gun USPS, though I'm not sure

Most people I think either consign them at a gun shop or sell them to a gun shop for the simple reason then it has to be documented that you sold it and also documented who bought it, So if something goes wrong you don't get blamed for it. Very few people sell guns in the alley anymore, I haven't sold a gun with out going through a gun shop in years for just this reason. This way its documented I sold it, I haven't been to a gun show in years that they do a back ground check right then and there, Or you don't get the gun.

Every gun I have sold was privately with no gun shop or business or FFL involvement. Why would I want to spend more money and take more time?

I think most people sell face to face privately so they don't lose money to the middle man gun store, because that's all it really is, is middle man money lost.

 

[yugorpk]

Fedex. It was a completely legal transfer in state. After the NFA form 4 was approved it wasn't my gun any more anyway. His name all over the paperwork and his name as shipper and receiver. I just sent it to its legal owner.

 

[AlaskaMan]

Some states are beginning to require that all sales go through an FFL holder. Didn't Washington State require all transactions to go through an FFL Holder back in 2014?
(RCW 9.41.113)

 

[mkc451]

Armlist.com for one.

Granted, this is designed for personal sales, but in state, there is no background checks since you won't be going through an FFL.

In Michigan there is -- handguns require Permit to Purchase or CPL for the transaction, even between face-to-face private sales. Long guns don't but handguns do.

 

[hAkron]

Even within the same state, unless you involve an FFL, good luck finding somebody to ship it for you. Can't legally ship it person to person via USPS. FedEx and UPS both have a policy against doing it. I think by law you have to tell UPS and FedEx that it's a handgun.

It's one of those things that's legal, but not possible in any practical sense.

 

[JSH1]

Some states are beginning to require that all sales go through an FFL holder. Didn't Washington State require all transactions to go through an FFL Holder back in 2014?
(RCW 9.41.113)

Yes, as did Oregon in 2015. The requirement is specifically aimed at keeping prohibited people from purchasing on the private market as described in multiple posts above.