Where do you get bullets for .38 S&W?

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Well, my question is in the title, so, where do you get bullets for handloading .38 S&W, I think that it is .360.

I googled it, and couldn't find anything, and I really don't want to cast my own.
 
Thanks, I don't know if anybody has ever tried anything like this, but does anybody make hollow point .38 S&Ws? I know that it is an older cartridge made before shooters had that expansion craze, but you never know, right?
 
If your alloy is soft enough this

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/371968/forster-universal-hollow-pointer-1-8

(or a homemade copy) should work fine and allow you to use full size Hollowpoint bullets.
Unless you really enjoy scrubbing lead out of your bore, I wouldn't recommend using cast or swaged lead bullets that are 2/1000s undersize. In fact, I'd suggest that you Google "bore slugging" and find out your exact groove diameter BEFORE you purchase any bullets. Usually the best accuracy (and the least leading) will be obtained by using cast bullets a thousandth or two over groove diameter.
You didn't say in your post exactly what sort of revolver you intend to shoot these out of, but if you're not absolutely sure of its condition, it'd probably be a good idea to have it checked out by a competent Gunsmith, particularly if it's a top break.
Keep your loads well on the mild side and remember that if this is an Enfield No. 2 Mk I, Webley Mk IV or S&W "Victory" model made for the Brits in WWII, the sights will be calibrated for a 200 grain bullet.
Have fun and stay safe,
Swampman
 
If you buy .358 lead, it better be dead soft, or it will lead horribly. Been there done that. You might get away with a .358 pure (or near pure) lead bullet. I used Super Grex or wax gas checks to stop leading with cast .358 bullets, and it worked, but just using a properly sized bullet makes it much easier to load.

I just shoot plated in it these days.
 
I spoke with a friend that's very familiar with the .38 S&W and it's quite possible that I gave you bad (or at least incomplete) advice in my previous post. He told me that while some (especially WWII era) barrels may have groove to groove diameters as large as .365", most cylinders won't accept a bullet much over .361". He said that on revolvers with this condition, the best remedy is to shoot a very soft, preferably swaged bullet that will "slug up" when fired and more completely fill the grooves. He said that he used this bullet before he started to swage his own and that it worked well.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/16...-and-w-360-diameter-146-grain-lead-round-nose

But nineteen bucks for a hundred swaged lead bullets seems insanely overpriced to me!

He also said he thought that MBC will cast the 145 grain bullet that ArchAngelCD linked, in pure lead and sized up to .362", but the minimum order is 1000 bullets and they charge a $10 set up fee. If you expect to shoot the revolver much, this might be your most economical choice. If not, then Larry Potterfield is that much closer to his next African safari (I think I funded at least half of his last one).
Good Luck,
Swampman

Walkalong, I just read your post and followed your link, but it was just a photo with no info on bullet diameter or source,
By the way, is the one on the left a HBWC seated backwards like the old .38 Special "Belly Gun" load? If so, what kind of accuracy do you get with it?
(Please excuse me if the query about the reversed HBWC sounds like a dumb question, but I'm viewing it on a two inch screen and can't really see it that well.)

In any case, if you're getting decent accuracy with the plated bullets, I know what I'd try first...
 
If I am going to use a swaged hollow base, I am going to use .358 hollow base made for .38 Special, as they will bump up to grip the rifling. Cheaper too.

I will be loading for a S&W lemon squeezer that is in pretty bad condition, finish wise, but it is safe to shoot. I will be using the lightest projectile that I can find, with the lowest pressure powder that I can find to be compatible with the lightest slugs that I can find, probably at or just below the starting loads.
 
Swampman, PM sent.

I am going to use .358 hollow base made for .38 Special, as they will bump up to grip the rifling.
Click to expand...
This is reported to work well.
 
Those of you who are lucky enough to own a Colt Police Positive chambered in .38 Colt New Police or .38 Colt Police Positive (both identical to .38 S&W) have chamber throats and barrel groove diameters that are identical to .38 Special. Therefore when handloading for these use the commonly available .358 dia. bullets.

If you are loading ammunition to be used in a .38 S&W Safety Hammerless be sure it has the "T" style barrel latch that was introduced in about 1898. Earlier versions should be used with black powder only.
 
A few years ago I bought a Lee .358 bullet mold, I don't remember exactly which it was but it was 158 grains (I think the RF nosed) and it dropped bullets at .362". I didn't realize what I had and I send it back. :banghead:

Old Fuff said:
Those of you who are lucky enough to own a Colt Police Positive chambered in .38 Colt New Police or .38 Colt Police Positive (both identical to .38 S&W) have chamber throats and barrel groove diameters that are identical to .38 Special. Therefore when handloading for these use the commonly available .358 dia. bullets.
Click to expand...

I have one of those (also a .380/200 Webley) That must be why I can't load .38 HBWC's seated extra long and have them chamber reliably in the Colt. Also I tried using .38 Special cases trimmed down to the right length, but they won't work because the rims are too thick. I bought some actual .38SW brass from Starline but haven't gotten back around to it yet. (too many projects on the todo list)

If you are loading ammunition to be used in a .38 S&W Safety Hammerless be sure it has the "T" style barrel latch that was introduced in about 1898. Earlier versions should be used with black powder only.
Click to expand...
What is a "T" style latch? I have a friend with an old S&W top-break but I don't know the model. It's a nice one; nickel finish and fancy scrollwork. He's shot it before; the ammo he showed me was shorter than .38 S&W. Maybe .38 Short? They were *old* and he just had a few rounds left. The bullets were tarnished white. I'd like to load him a box of proper ammo but I don't want something that will overstress the old gun.
 
Old Fuff, it doesn't have a "T" latch. It is a ".38 S&W Safety Hammerless second model". If I get a new cylinder and cannibalize the ejector and the star off of the one that I have (so I don't have to time it) will it be alright? Or is it not the cylinder that is the problem? Could I get a "T" latch and switch it out or is it not feasible to do that?

Is factory ammo fine it it? Now you got me scared that I have an already ruined gun...

tkcomer, those are the wrong diameter.
 
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Those of you who are lucky enough to own a Colt Police Positive chambered in .38 Colt New Police or .38 Colt Police Positive (both identical to .38 S&W) have chamber throats and barrel groove diameters that are identical to .38 Special.
Click to expand...

The pressures run higher in my Colt Police Positive than in my S&W Victory Model. It may be due to the throats & bore diameter. Brass gets sticky sooner anyway.
 
If you look at the underside of the extrator star you should see part of the serial number. That's because that particular extractor was individually fit to the cylinder you have If you put it in another cylinder it may or may not work.

The "T" barrel latch is entirely different (and stronger) then the ones on earlier versions. You may find that the one you have is also numbered to the gun, because it was also individually fit to the gun.

Back when your very fine Safety Hammerless was made Smith & Wesson revolvers were individually fitted, not just assembled.

The problem with using smokeless powder loads is not that the current factory loads generate more pressure, but the fact that smokeless burns faster and therefore puts more pressure on the cylinder then black charcoal does. I don't think you are likely to have a KABOOM!! when it blows up in your hand - which is possible but not probable. What is more likely is getting an expanded chamber(s) after which the cylinder is ruined. Keep in mind that the cylinder (as well as the frame and barrel) were made from mild, low carbon steel and not heat treated.

If you ask any of the ammunition makers they will tell you that current .38 S&W cartridges are intended for use in hand ejector, not top-break revolvers. This may (or may not) be a bit overboard because the .38 Safety Hammerless was made up until 1940. Still I can understand why they are being careful.
 
The pressures run higher in my Colt Police Positive than in my S&W Victory Model. It may be due to the throats & bore diameter. Brass gets sticky sooner anyway.
Click to expand...

If you are using .361 Dia. bullets I would think so. According to a Colt blueprint and specification sheet I have:

Chamber throat Dia. = .3585

Groove Dia. =.353 =.354

As a general rule, Colt barrels intended to be used with soft lead bullets are on the tight side. Try bullets sized to .356 - .358 and see what happens.
 
ummmm.... you have never seen my so called "fine" S&W revolver.
Anyway, there is no serial number on the star, and I checked Numrich gun parts and they only have one version of cylinder assembly, here is the page.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Search.aspx?filter=38+S&W+safety+hammerless

Oops, you need to go to the second page...

Since they only have one version, and not a selection of "Out of stock" buttons, I am guessing that S&W used one type of assembly on the first, second, third, fourth, etc. versions? If this is true, I could get a newer cylinder, do some minor fitting, and have a gun that is smokeless compatible. Right? What if I heat treated the cylinder?

Is the frame part of the barrel catch the same? Could I get a new barrel, with a "T" style latch and it be compatible with the frame?

When I get around to handloading for this, could I use Pyrodex, Clearshot, or one of the other Black Powder substitutes?

Walkalong, If you want to move this thread to "Gunsmithing/Repairs", please do so if you feel that we are no longer discussing handloading enough.
 
Hollow based wad cutters (148 gr) work great. Seat them backwards for self defense loads. I love the old S&W I frames & break tops.
 
In the 5 years since this thread on the same topic
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=300584&highlight=38S&W

I have got a couple Colt 38 S&W revolvers.

So I am still shooting a grain or two of powder and very soft .360" Western Bullet in the Iver Johnson break tops with weak latch.

But the Colts are getting red hot jacketed bullet loads.

The book by Jerry Kuhnhausen on double action Colt revolvers Vol 1
http://www.amazon.com/The-Colt-Double-Action-Revolvers/dp/B0006ER54E
That book is so well written it shocked me.
The only way I can see he could figure out all that stuff was to be buddies with the Colt factory.
One of my 100 year old Colts, I took it apart dozens of times and went through the bend the bolt tang process to get the revolver timed.
That must have been why I got is so cheap and the revolver had never been used. It sure had been taken apart. The other owners must have not had that book.
 
I have pulled a couple of 'Factory' ".38 S&W" rounds recently...

Both were Winchester 145gr SKU#X38SWP...Could not find my calipers at that moment, so I just pushed them down the bores of a couple of guns...

The first was a Blackhawk .357, and the damn thing almost fell through...It needed no help other than a gentle push to start, and then once through (with a pencil), it left almost no rifling marks...

The 2nd gun was my Albion made Enfield...That at least was a bit tighter, and left more rifling (counter to popular belief [and SAMMI specs] that these bores are larger)...

My point being that my Penn TCBB hard cast at .358 do not fit loosely in either gun...

I have made up a half dozen .38 S&W with that bullet, but have yet had time to pop them off...

BTW...The Ideal Handbook #38 lists loads only for .358" bullets...The Lyman Manual #44 lists bullet diameters from .354"-.360"...

This (and other references I have seen on the net) make me believe that there was a wide range in bore diameter used over the decades in ".38 S&W" chambered firearms...Slugging your bore to find out what your individual gun wants is the best way to start...
 
MygrandfathersammofromtheAlaskanGoldrush5-6-2012.jpg
My grandfather immigrated from Sweden to the Alaskan Gold rush.
He bought a 38 S&W Iver Johnson break top hammerless revolver before he left Seattle for Alaska.
I am told this ammo he left behind is from right after the Gold Rush, between 1911 and 1915.
The bullets measure .357".
 
YIKES! $170.00 for a book?! That is almost as bad as my college textbooks! Anyway, can I do the "Bend the bolt tang" thing to time a S&W?

I wanted to learn how to slug a bore, so do I just hammer a chunk of soft lead that is close to the proper diameter and measure it with a micrometer? I measure groove to groove, right? Are there any other things to do to slug a bore?

This is a S&W Safety Hammerless, Third Model by the way.
 
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