Which .380 Flat Nose FMJ Looks Like It Would Do More Tissue Damage?

[LookAtYou]

I am curious as to between two rounds, one Buffalo Bore 95 Gr FN FMJ (Item 27F) and One Sig Sauer 100 Grain FN FMJ, which one looks like it would create the bigger cavity, based off bullet design. They're both Flat Nose FMJ, but built slightly different.

The Sig looks almost like a round nose FMJ, but as you can see from the meplat it's actually a flat nose, while the BB is truncated (more linear from the base to the meplat). The Sig's body looks more rounded, and kind of fatter, like it would cause more stretch/wounding, but idk. Which design would case a larger cavity? Does one meplat look bigger than the other?

 

[WrongHanded]

Take a look at this if you're interested in defense against two-legged threats:



If it's animals you're worried about, I'd consider going for more power than .380 ACP.

 

[TonyAngel]

All of those options look like ball ammo to me. I'd say that they all punch about the same hole.

 

[film495]

the BB to me visually looks to have a larger flat face on it, but that is just appearance from the photo.

 

[LookAtYou]

the BB to me visually looks to have a larger flat face on it, but that is just appearance from the photo.

The BB looks to be a truncated flat nose FMJ, while the Sig is also a flat nose FMJ, but looks like it would be a round nose FMJ, right up until the meplat, where it's actually a flat nose, if that makes sense. Like, the Sig is more rounded in the body, up to the meplat, while the BB is more linear in the body (truncated) up to the meplat. I was wondering if maybe the Sig might do more damage since it the body of the bullet seems to be "fatter" since it's rounded, causing tissue to have to stretch more, but idk.

 

[94045]

It's not what you asked but the 100 gr Hardcast Standard Pressure seems to have the largest meplat. It shouldn't lead at those velocities if that is your concerns.....

If your worried about reaching a minimum penetration (12" Bare and 14" in 4LD) in defensive situation the various products loaded with XTP will. If it fails to expand it will tumble from shorter barrels and travel a little deeper. With longer barrels it may stabilize and act like a large Meplat FMJ due to profile.

If your looking for deep penetration and want the flat nose because it tends to stabilize better out of a short barrel my inclination would be to use the WWB FMJ-FN because it's cheap available, and allows for affordable function checking. 200+ Rounds of Buffalo Bore for function testing gets expensive.

 

[Triggernosis]

I believe either one would do an almost identical job regarding tissue damage, with any differences something that could only be measured in a scientific lab out to the third decimal place.

 

[bdickens]

Both will poke a hole roughly 0.380" in diameter.

 

[LookAtYou]

I believe either one would do an almost identical job regarding tissue damage, with any differences something that could only be measured in a scientific lab out to the third decimal place.

Do you think that the BB bullet, being more linear, would cut better than the more rounded dog bullet, or not really big of a difference?

 

[LookAtYou]

Both will poke a hole roughly 0.380" in diameter.

Do you think that the truncated BB bullet, might cut better, since it's more linear in design, over the Sig bullet which is more rounded?

 

[Triggernosis]

Do you think that the BB bullet, being more linear, would cut better than the more rounded dog bullet, or not really big of a difference?

I'm confident that there would be no detectable difference whatsoever.

 

[LookAtYou]

I'm confident that there would be no detectable difference whatsoever.

Ok, thnx

 

[94045]

Both will poke a hole roughly 0.380" in diameter.

Flatnose does more tissue damage. I'm not sure why but any Hunter that has used RN and Flatnose can tell you that a difference does exist.

I have no idea where you came up with .380 hole diameter. I'm thinking maybe you thought that was bullet diameter but even if that's the case a non-expanding pistol bullet generally leaves a hole much smaller than nominal diameter.

 

[TonyAngel]

Do not confuse that flat nose ball ammo with a lead semi-wad cutter. Two different animals.

 

[94045]

Do not confuse that flat nose ball ammo with a lead semi-wad cutter. Two different animals.

The traditional loadings for calibers such as .45 Colt 255 gr, .38 WCF and .44 WCF are Flatnose not SWC. This is what I'm referring to. Not the traditional loadings for rounds like .357 Magnum (158 gr LSWC).

 

[TonyAngel]

Yeah, so you're talking about very old cartridges. I really don't think that they used flat nose bullets because they excelled in terminal performance. It think it was more of a lack of options back then. What I was saying was that flat nose fmj bullets shouldn't be confused with semi wad cutters because they do not perform like semi wad cutters.

I suppose it is possible that the flat nose bullets might be less likely to deflect off of bone or a windshield.

 

[WisBorn]

I am curious as to between two rounds, one Buffalo Bore 95 Gr FN FMJ (Item 27F) and One Sig Sauer 100 Grain FN FMJ, which one looks like it would create the bigger cavity, based off bullet design. They're both Flat Nose FMJ, but built slightly different.

The Sig looks almost like a round nose FMJ, but as you can see from the meplat it's actually a flat nose, while the BB is truncated (more linear from the base to the meplat). The Sig's body looks more rounded, and kind of fatter, like it would cause more stretch/wounding, but idk. Which design would case a larger cavity? Does one meplat look bigger than the other?

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It's an interesting question. I carry the Sig load in my LCP2 because it functions in the pistol well. I don't have a problem with carrying FMJ's in a 380. Penetration = tissue damage.

 

[94045]

Yeah, so you're talking about very old cartridges. I really don't think that they used flat nose bullets because they excelled in terminal performance. It think it was more of a lack of options back then. What I was saying was that flat nose fmj bullets shouldn't be confused with semi wad cutters because they do not perform like semi wad cutters.

I suppose it is possible that the flat nose bullets might be less likely to deflect off of bone or a windshield.

Flat nose bullets do more damage to tissue than round nose. You can ask any one who has.used both on deer or hogs. I don't know why. The current theory is that the bullet encapsulates itself in a pressure wave. The only thing I can come up with is that it's increased cavitation like the theories of how the phillips head screwdriver shaped projectiles are supposed to work.

However I will point out that as the bullet slows this becomes much less effective (you can see this in gel from the needle like wound tracts toward the end of the path even with fully expanded large caliber rounds). I do not know at what velocity this effect would become less than meaningful. I can say that the difference is very noticable.in rounds that make 1300+ fps. I have never tried it in a round at .45 ACP Velocities.

 

[bdickens]

Flatnose does more tissue damage. I'm not sure why but any Hunter that has used RN and Flatnose can tell you that a difference does exist.

I have no idea where you came up with .380 hole diameter. I'm thinking maybe you thought that was bullet diameter but even if that's the case a non-expanding pistol bullet generally leaves a hole much smaller than nominal diameter.

Where else, outside academia, can you find the level of pedantry you find in a gun forum?

 

[Demi-human]

Where else, outside academia, can you find the level of pedantry you find in a gun forum?

Ever talk to Rose Gardeners?

 

[gotboostvr]

Where else, outside academia, can you find the level of pedantry you find in a gun forum?

It's a pretty well accepted methodology amongst cast bullet handgun hunters that a RNFP and SWC's kills pretty well on mammalian type game. Slow, flat bullets kill very well.

How well it'll work at 380acp levels of weight and velocity however I'm not sure.

 

[TonyAngel]

I’m just going by what I’ve seen on paper and melons, because I don’t hunt much anymore, but a simple ball bullet with a flat nose doesn’t make the same mess that a semi wad cutter does. I don’t know that it means anything, but flat nose ball has made the same hole that round nose ball ammo does. Semi wad cutters cut larger holes.

anyway, this is probably academic with all of the modern ammunition there is out there and I know that I wouldn’t want to be shot with anything, whether it had a round or flat nose.

 

[golden]

LOOK,

I really doubt any flat tip round that can feed through the average autoloader will do much more than a round nose fmj. Those big, flat nosed semi wadcutters used for hunting have wide meplats that would jam in about any gun that has not been really worked over. The small meplats on the .380ACP are just about useless, except to cause your gun to jam. That is the only distinguishing characteristic that I have found with them.
The NYPD management was trying very hard not to adopt a hollow point round back in the .38 Special days and tried a 158 grain semi wadcutter as a replacement for the 158 grain round nose. It proved no more effective.
The U.S. military had some made up, but they really did not offer anything that I know of.
If you want more stopping power in a .380ACP, you need a better bullet that expands. I presently use the WINCHESTER Defend jhp in my GLOCK 42, but may switch to the FEDERAL HST 99 grain jhp. So far, I am happy with the Defend round, but it is a little hard to find in my area.

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

In the Old Days, Julian Hatcher allowed a 5% advantage for a small flatpoint over roundnose. Hardly worth considering for a pocket pistol best aimed up the assailant's nose. They didn't call them "faceguns" for nothing.

 

[94045]

LOOK,

I really doubt any flat tip round that can feed through the average autoloader will do much more than a round nose fmj. Those big, flat nosed semi wadcutters used for hunting have wide meplats that would jam in about any gun that has not been really worked over. The small meplats on the .380ACP are just about useless, except to cause your gun to jam. That is the only distinguishing characteristic that I have found with them.
The NYPD management was trying very hard not to adopt a hollow point round back in the .38 Special days and tried a 158 grain semi wadcutter as a replacement for the 158 grain round nose. It proved no more effective.
The U.S. military had some made up, but they really did not offer anything that I know of.
If you want more stopping power in a .380ACP, you need a better bullet that expands. I presently use the WINCHESTER Defend jhp in my GLOCK 42, but may switch to the FEDERAL HST 99 grain jhp. So far, I am happy with the Defend round, but it is a little hard to find in my area.

Jim

I like the XTP in short barrel .380 because it tends to expand moderately or tumble and stay in the 12-18" range.

In long barrel .380 I like the Critical Defense because unlike in most JHP increased velocity tends to just fold the petals back farther and increase penetration resulting in 12-14".

We have a choice and if people prefer a FMJ-FN that's their prerogative. I have no idea exactly what the OP intends to use this for and am answering his question to the best of my experience.

Others have different experiences and opinions and that's fine.