Which agencies use frangible ammuntion?

[shdwfx]

Just from curiosity, are there any agencies that use frangible pistol ammunition?
I'm aware of some law enforcement units that use it only on their training ranges, but not for duty carry.

It's a popular internet rumor that Federal Air Marshals carry frangible ammunition now.
But, to the best of my knowledge, they currently carry .357Sig 125g Speer Gold Dot HPs. Can anyone confirm this?
I believe the FFDO's in the cockpit carry .40 S&W HPs.

Do the secret service use frangibles? FBI?



(This doesn't imply any opinion on the appropriateness of frangibles. Thanks.)

 

[wditto]

an appropriate input question would also cover what would happen if a .357 SIG round pierced the plane's skin as opposed to the "frangible".....would it implode/ explode ?

 

[Coronach]

This was handled on Mythbusters, and is a well known false idea. If you punch a 9mm hole in a plane's fuselage or a window, you have a small leak. If you poke lots of 9mm holes, you have lots of small leaks.

No explosion.

Mike

 

[shdwfx]

Agreed. I personally do not see a use case for frangible pistol ammunition, or at least one for which it is especially suited. That's my opinion - don't really care to debate appropriateness and use cases in this thread.

I just want to know if any agencies actually use this on the street today. Thanks.

 

[freakshow10mm]

Frangible ammunition is usually used when shooting steel plates at close distances.

 

[BCPerry]

Some do

I know an agency in Metro Atlanta that carries it with their SWAT teams, but only uses it in extreme CQB.

 

[Aka Zero]

I have seen that frangible ammo is used for steel targets.
Some things like glaser bullets are made to not go through walls. But it is small compressed pellets, not powder.
And frangible shotgun slugs are used for door breaching.

Dunno of any agencies that would use it that much. Besides the breaching rounds.

 

[ReloaderFred]

The current ammunition used by the U.S. Coast Guard in the Sig pistols is the Winchester .40 S&W Ranger Non-Toxic, which is loaded with a frangible bullet.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[harmon rabb]

This was handled on Mythbusters, and is a well known false idea. If you punch a 9mm hole in a plane's fuselage or a window, you have a small leak. If you poke lots of 9mm holes, you have lots of small leaks.

No explosion.

There wouldn't even be a problem keeping the cabin pressurized, as there is so much bleed air available from the turbines.

 

[CWL]

I know an agency in Metro Atlanta that carries it with their SWAT teams, but only uses it in extreme CQB.

Aren't those frangible rounds used in their M4 carbines and not pistols?

 

[TAB]

The coasties use it, I don't think anyone else does.

FWIW, I really doubt the thin skin of a airplane would cuase a frangible round to break up. a window or a rib most likly would.

 

[ReloaderFred]

The Winchester rounds the Coast Guard is using don't even break up when they hit dirt. The best I've seen them do is break in half when they've hit a small rock. Whatever they're made of, it's tough. It may break up if shot at steel plates, but they stay intact when they impact the berm at 35 yards.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[gmh1013]

I bought a box from SBR in 9mm
for home....I dont wont to shoot through walls if a BG comes in or hit a another house or God forbid somebody.
However they dont just explode into dust like they claim.....they turn in to
50/60 little pieces when I shot a steel target.

 

[shdwfx]

in summary

So in summary:

1) Some departments use frangible practice rounds as a saftey precaution on steel targets
2) The Coast Guard uses a frangible duty round.

Follow up: any idea why the Coast Guard uses a frangible duty round. Would that be due to their aqueous environment and concern for ricochets?

Thank you all for your input. I appreciate it.

 

[waterhouse]

I know the Border Patrol uses frangible on the steel plate practice ranges, but not on the paper/cardboard ranges and not for duty carry.

 

[Shooter57]

I don't think any use frag ammo on duty. How would you defend a clean/accidental shooting to a jury when their lawyer is preaching they used frag rounds with the spray and pray attitude not highly trained officers.

 

[waterhouse]

How would you defend a clean/accidental shooting to a jury when their lawyer is preaching they used frag rounds with the spray and pray attitude

Just out of curiosity, how do frangible bullets relate to spray and pray attitude?

 

[CWL]

they used frag rounds with the spray and pray attitude not highly trained officers.

I also find offense with this. Just when did "frangible" ammuniton become "frag rounds"? There is a difference, as you would be shamed into admitting, if you ever sat down on a witness stand and had a lawyer grill you.

 

[Jenrick]

No LE agency to my knowledge uses frang rounds with anything approaching regularity. Glasser rounds and the like were all the rage for a while when they were first introduced. Then people realized that they were just glorified snake shot or under-powered .410 loads. I suppose I could see them being used in a HIGHLY sensitive environment like a bio-research lab where you REALLY don't want to put a hole through the walls or specific items. Normal frang rounds however will only break up on something fairly hard, (heck I've even seen AR frang do damage to pistol plates).

So in short, other then very special situations I really doubt frang rounds are used at all.

-Jenrick

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Say what you want about Glasers. I worked on a dept in the 70's that issued them. We never had a shooting involving a human, but one officer nailed a dog in the line of duty, and it went down fast. Found pellets throughout every organ in the abdominal and chest cavity. If that is what happens, shock/neuro shutdown would probably be pretty fast, or I would thinks so.......