Which AR pattern rifle is better?

[SpentCasing]

Money no object, which AR pattern rifle is better?

Uses: Go-to rifle for home defense and self defense. Reliability and durability are of the utmost importance.

Colt LE6920 or Knights Armament Company (KAC) SR15?

 

[Warp]

You didn't list the manufacturer for the KAC in the poll question.

Any particular reason?

 

[SpentCasing]

Continuation from the "milspec" thread....

ETA: GDI. Youre right I didnt. Copy pasted and got ahead of myself. The poll title, I got it right and called it a KAC Sr15 so I didnt go full retard..

 

[savanahsdad]

ya know buy putting " improvement's buy Eugene Stoner " may tilt this a bit LOL

 

[MistWolf]

I don't deny the KAC is a very nice rifle. But, in a real world practical sense, does it make a difference when engaging in a gunfight? Both rifles are proven to be reliable. Will using a KAC give a gunfighter an edge over a gunfighter using a Colt?

 

[Warp]

I don't deny the KAC is a very nice rifle. But, in a real world practical sense, does it make a difference when engaging in a gunfight? Both rifles are proven to be reliable. Will using a KAC give a gunfighter an edge over a gunfighter using a Colt?

Are they equally reliable and durable?

That's the question, really.

 

[MistWolf]

I don't know. KACs usually cost twice as much as a 6920 and have some nice features, such as ambi controls and a free float tube and are known to be reliable performers. But I don't know if they are equally reliable or if one is more reliable than the other. If the KAC is more reliable, is it enough of a difference in real world applications?

KACs have a reputation for being smooth shooters. Is that smoothness a significant difference in a gunfight?

KAC deviates from the milspec as improvements. But how much difference do those improvements make when it comes right down to it?

I don't ask these questions in the same vein as "Well, I'm not going to war, so I don't need a top quality rifle". I'm asking in a "This rifle is lifesaving equipment and must work" kind of way

 

[back40]

the op claims that the kac offers plenty more than the 6920 in the durability and reliability dept. i'd like to know how he came to this conclusion and what he can offer to support it.

 

[jason41987]

exactly which improvements have actually been made?

 

[berettashotgun]

Money is no object.........1st line.

 

[boricua9mm]

I've voted for the SR15, but there's a caveat; the SR15 and the engineering & fine tuning behind it should prove more reliable over a 16" barreled 6920 if we are talking about mil-spec equivalent 5.56 loads. If we are to include Wolf .223 and other weak .223 commercial loadings in our expectations for the rifle, then things may tip in favor of the 6920.

Kevin Boland, Director of Military Operations at KAC even acknowledges potential problems with gas port tuning acorss the spectrum of ammo types, stating the following:

"We did open up the ports on later guns, they are still on the smaller side, so if its cold/and or the gun is not lubed some people shooting very low power ammunition still may have issues, however we then address it on a case by case basis.

Port sizing is a balancing act, as you can make a monster port that overgasses the gun and can cause other reliability and wear issues.

The other issue is when people add cans.

However we fell that the current SR-15E3 is best able to address the needs/wants of 99.9% of the consumer base."

Source: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?55561-KAC-SR-15-ammo-issues&

 

[meanmrmustard]

If I need an SPR? KAC

If I'm humping through hostile territory, and I'm fairly certain of 100m or less engagements....Colt.

But that's in how id set them up. I'm not sure how to vote, but considering my uses, I have to give the nod to the Colt. Money being no object doesn't mean I want to spend it all. The price difference buys optic, ammo, and more training.

 

[hatt]

The KAC is probably a better gun but "The milspec/TDP are good enough" is certainly true for the stated purposes.

 

[boricua9mm]

One one hand this thread asks: Which AR pattern rifle is better?

Then one of the answers contains the words good enough.

A 6920 is certainly "good enough" for the uses of self defense/protection/emergency use, however the question of which one is better from the standpoint of durability and reliability is another question entirely.

Yes, I know the 6920 to be good enough, but I also think the SR15 and its components are more durable and its tuned gas system more reliable over the long haul with 5.56 NATO loadings.

Maybe not the most clear-cut poll in High Road history.

 

[Warp]

One one hand this thread asks: Which AR pattern rifle is better?

Then one of the answers contains the words good enough.

A 6920 is certainly "good enough" for the uses of self defense/protection/emergency use, however the question of which one is better from the standpoint of durability and reliability is another question entirely.

Yes, I know the 6920 to be good enough, but I also think the SR15 and its components are more durable and its tuned gas system more reliable over the long haul with 5.56 NATO loadings.

Maybe not the most clear-cut poll in High Road history.

The poll was written in a bias manner that is altering the votes/results, in my opinion.

This spun off from another thread, and at OP's request I typed out how I thought the question/post/poll should be worded. OP added the statements to the poll, and IMO that makes these results irrelevant to the original question.

 

[C-grunt]

I am a BIG fan of the 6920. In fact I sold off a Noveske to fund another project because I never shot it. I rely on a Colt at home and use one at work too. They are great fighting rifles.

That being said I believe the SR15 does have some real improvements. The biggest being the redesigned E3 bolt. From everything I have read about it they are more durable than a standard bolt. Gas systems are irrelevant as I seriously doubt the "tuned gas system" is going to make the gun more reliable than the Colt. I rarely clean my Colt, just oil it, and it just runs an runs. Even with at least half of my shooting being suppressed.

I recently had a Vltor A5 system put on the Colt. We shall see how it runs now but so far its great.

 

[boricua9mm]

Gas systems are irrelevant as I seriously doubt the "tuned gas system" is going to make the gun more reliable than the Colt.

Let's not ignore the many bandaid fixes that Colt and others had to come up with for the Carbine gas system to work with the longer barrel lengths, not the least of which are extra powered extractor springs, extractor o-rings, H2 buffers and heavyweight carbine springs. None of those things are required for rifle length and midlength systems to reliably feed-fire-extract-eject. Yes, the M4 TDP works, but the aformentioned "upgrades" are actually workarounds to the problem rather than being real solutions to them.

 

[joevans]

Check out the new Adcor Defense Bear Elite. Got one, love it, clean shooting will probably replace the Colt based on US Gov't testing

 

[taliv]

this thread is so messed up...

The OP seems to have quite a bit of misconceptions about what Stoner did.

IIRC, the design requirements of the SR15E3IWS project were a rifle that could go 25,000 rounds without changing any parts.

Thus, they made a
a wider extractor, with dual springs in the back, to prolong life
rounded bolt lugs to keep the lugs from sheering
smaller cam pin and hole to stop bolts from breaking at the cam pin hole

and that's just the bolt...

so arguably, yes, it is more durable. for clarity, I personally have no expectation that a KAC SR15 would experience significantly fewer malfunctions than a colt 6920, but I do expect I could go longer before needing to change the springs or worn extractor, etc.

otoh, if you consider that it comes stock with
built in flush cups
a very expensive match trigger
a sopmod stock
built in aluminum BUIS that fold into the rail
a very expensive quad rail
ambi safety
ambi mag release
ambi bolt stop
etc...
if your plan was to buy a 6920 and add all that to it, it would be cheaper to just buy the KAC. so it's not really an apples to apples comparison because it comes with so much extra stuff

 

[Rule3]

The KAC because it's made here in Florida.

Colt opened something in Florida but I do not know what they do there. Maybe just office stuff??

A guy ordered one (he has connections with the owner) it got shipped to the LGS for transfer. It sure was nice, not sure what model but it was top of the line, Other than the really nice trigger (which can be added to any rifle) I wouldn't pay the money for it.

 

[ricebasher302]

I didn't vote because, as far as reliability and durability are concerned, the margin of difference between the two makes is probably no greater than the margin of difference between two rifles of the exact same model. No two will ever be functionality identical. Kind of a wash. I'd have to pick based on features, assuming cost is not a factor.

 

[IndianaBoy]

Money no object?

KAC, every time, without question.

 

[Jackal]

If money is no object, then why not skip the rifle altogether and move straight to a drone strike?

 

[Glocktogo]

The SR-15 is overkill, but having fired both, I voted for it. They are VERY nice!

 

[jason41987]

this is a bit off topic, but relevant.. anyway, im not a big fan of the ar15 by any stretch, i think there are some issues with the rifle that arent being addressed and neither of these rifles addressed them (i liken the aluminum upper receiver to running an aluminum car engine without cylinder sleeves.. makes me cringe)

but what i can respect about the ar15 is the community and how the design itself is really a very, very far shot from its original design and is what it is now because of community and aftermarket driven projects.. its basically the linux of rifles, open source and freely built upon and improved upon from people all throughout the world as opposed to a closed source of a very select few people and without that, this thread would likely not even exist, youd like have neither product to debate against

so.. i think people could agree the best feature of any AR15 is the fact that its a widely distributed open source design that really anyone can freely improve upon, expand upon, and develop with giving you the options of multiple manufacturers, tons of aftermarket options, and a huge aftermarket to make the two rifles in this discussion possible

so in the end of whats better.. its like asking which distro of linux is better.. in the end its all linux only made different by a pre-determined selection of parts and add-ons.. same is true here, both are AR-15s just with a pre-determined selection of aftermarket components