Which C&R rifle to get

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Turftech1

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Hey all, help me choose a C&R rifle to get!

I have a few Mosins, and just flippin love them! I love the history, I love the old wood, love the simplicity and am thinking that it would be awesome to branch out and start collecting a few C&R rifles, both for fun, and as an investment.

The 3 most readily available options I am interested in are:

The Swiss Model 1911 7.5 K11 Carbine ($300)

A 303 Enfield (various models available, $200 - 300)

A 8mm Yugo Mauser $250 range

What are your thoughts/experiences? Is one of these a clear winner, or should I look at another model?

I would like to make a reasonably good investment, but I also LOVE shooting my Mosins. My son is often surprised when we go on what we call a "walk-n-shoot" (hike around in the desert or the woods taking the occasional shoot at a rock, dead tree stump, or rodent) that I will nearly always grab my m44, instead of one of the newer, nicer guns.

What's your favorite bolt action mil-surp, and why?
 
My first was a Sporterized Enfield No 4. Been trying to track down another in original condition... just love something about these things!
 
How bout a Swiss K31 still reasonably cheap.
For investment a 1903A3 or A4 IF you can find a deal or
a M1 Garand (or several) still GREAT deals from the CMP
 
Some of those Yugo M48 Mausers are like new, and very inexpensive for what you are getting. They are a step up from the Mosin, although Mosins are a lot of fun as well. You can probably find ammo for the 8mm easier than the other two you listed. The other two are great pieces of history as well though.
 
This one is not on your list BUT.....

Get an M1 Garand. They are going fast and getting more expensive as we type. Grab one from the CMP as soon as possible. You can not possibly regret that decision.
 
1917---hey, its Armistice Day!

When everybody zigs, I always zag. I fell in love with the 1917 rifle (U.S. Rifle of 1917, caliber 30). I love the ears and the peepsight and the front sight (with ears). I've got 'em in sporterized models (missing top and forward handguards), with and without ears, in original and aftermarket wood. I picked up one rechambered for... 458 Lott! Its a poor man's elephant gun! I've learned to bed and mount Weaver scope rails (for Winnie model 70s) on the sporterized receivers. I love the overbuilt, heavy receiver and barrel. Its a chunk, but they make great bench rifles.

M1917%20w%20bayo.jpg


The 1917 is the grandfather of Winnie Model 70 and Remington Model 30 (which morphed into the model 700s), as Winchester, Remington, and Eddystone (Remington's subsidiary) built the Enfield pattern 1914 for the British and then built the U.S. model 1917 in 30-06 for American forces at the close of the Great War.

The rifle that Sargent York used. There's no reason it should stand in the shadow of the Springfield 03.
 
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My problem is that I love them all. I have C&Ritis pretty badly and would invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into them if I had the money to spend. As it is, my collection is much larger than I ever intended it to be.

Here are some observations:
If you already have Mosins, time to move up to a Finn. An M39 would be a smart move. The best built, most accurate Mosins are Finns, you will marvel at how much more refined they are than your Russian Mosins.
Enfields are really nice to shoot, accurate, recoil isn't bad, 10 round detachanble mag and the slickest bolt action out there? What's not to like? I have a No 4 MKI and a No 5 MKI.
K31 is probably the best C&R deal out there, they are built like the proverbial Swiss Watch and are still affordable. I am surprised they don't sell for K98 money, they are really great rifles. Ammo isn't cheap or abundant but worth it.

Pistols
Not sure if you are into pistols but some of the C&R ones are a great value, fun to shoot and inexpensive compared to American pistols. We all want to own a WWII era 1911 but if you can't afford quite a few thousand dollars, the P38 is a nice shooter and cool looking. The CZ82, Radom P64, EG or Russian Makarovs are all C&R, fairly easy to find and not expensive. Fun to shoot also, 9x18 Makarov is a fun caliber. Probably one of the most fun to shoot and super inexpensive would be the Romanian Tokrev, the TTC. I got mine for $199.00 and it is a BLAST to shoot.
 
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When I got a C&R years ago, I bought a wide assortment. I still pull out a Mosin on occasion. The Finn M39's are nice and you used to be able to get them cheap. The M38/M44 is a great little tough carbine.

But to actually shoot and enjoy... really nothing has matched my two Swiss K31's. Very fine rifles. If it was a trivial thing to mount a scope on them (just like any modern sporting rifle) they would be nearly perfect.

One sleeper I ended up really enjoying... the French MAS 49/56. The design was ahead of its time. Larger and heavier than an M1 Carbine and much more portable than a Garand. 7.5 French is easy to reload. (Just like the 7.5 Swiss.)

I don't really think of the M1 Carbine or Garand in the C&R group. They are "US Martial Arms" and every US gun guy interested in WWII or gun design or just history should own one.

Gregg
 
With C&R rifles I've found it's important to get them when they first come on the market. You'll get the nicer ones out of the first batches. .303's are hard on brass if you reload. The 8mm surplus ammo seems to be all gone. Swiss ammo was never cheap IMO but the rifles are great. I got a couple of yugo 8mm that were like new and turk ammo was cheap. Good luck on any you pruchase.
 
I got a Yugo Mauser for $299 at a Gander Mountain in Peoria. They had ten in the rack and I had the luxury of picking out the best one. Mine had all milled parts, a pristine bore, a nice cleaning rod and the front sight hood was present. All of the others seemed to be missing one or more of those features. They had tons of that crappy weak Remington factory ammo with that ridiculous 170 gr round nose bullet, but it is good brass for reloading.

I have a K-31, the gun is everything it is everything it is cracked up to be, but ammo is just too expensive or hard to find for the amount of shooting I do. I reload for enough calibers now!

I have also been told, by those with far more knowledge than I, that the Swiss military ammo is the most accurate ammo ever loaded by any factory, any where at any time. And it ain't cheap!

Enjoy whatever you get.
 

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I am thinking of purchasing an M1916 Spanish Mauser. It has the same feel of a regualr Mauser and fires the .308. I owned the Yugo Mauser once but 7mm ammo was not easy or cheap to find.
 
I love all these answers so far, but they are really making me wish I had a bigger bank account!

I live 4 miles from a Cabelas, and they virtually always have ammo for both the 8mm and the 7.5mm, usually they have both the Herters and the PPU which is pretty cheap.

One last question.... there seems to be a bunch of Argentine mausers on the market, and fairly inexpensive. Are they lemons, or good shooters?

k31 sounds like a winner, and I would love to jump on a Garand.
 
Get the K-31.

The only rifle out of the bunch that will shoot sub MOA with GP-11 service ammo.

To me, the K-31 is the greatest battle rifle ever made. It's been proven for over a century, and due to it's accuracy, leaves all others in the dust.
 
I am thinking of purchasing an M1916 Spanish Mauser. It has the same feel of a regular Mauser and fires the .308.
Click to expand...

Before you do that read up on 7.62 CETME vs 308win. An M1916 is a 40K psi small ring action, and .308win is a 60K psi cartridge. If you want a .308 Mauser, get a Israeli K98 or a Spanish FR-8.



OP, since it hasn't been mentioned yet, i'd like to propose you get an Italian Carcano - i think they are the best deal right now in C+R, going for less than a beat up 91/30 Mosin.

However, in the coming months you'll also need to pick up a K31, K98, FR-8, No.1mk3, No.4 mk1*, No.4 mk2, No.5, 1903, 1903A3, 1903A4, 1917, M-1 Garand, M-1 Carbine(s), etc, etc...
 
desidog said:
OP, since it hasn't been mentioned yet, i'd like to propose you get an Italian Carcano - i think they are the best deal right now in C+R, going for less than a beat up 91/30 Mosin.

However, in the coming months you'll also need to pick up a K31, K98, FR-8, No.1mk3, No.4 mk1*, No.4 mk2, No.5, 1903, 1903A3, 1903A4, 1917, M-1 Garand, M-1 Carbine(s), etc, etc...
Click to expand...

Holy Schnikeys! I better win the Publisher's Clearinghouse sweepstakes in the next week or two if I'm going to pull that off! Not that I wouldn't love every one of those.
 
A 303 Enfield (various models available, $200 - 300)
Click to expand...

I personally think that low price shouldn't be your first determinant in choosing a collectible rifle. For $200-300, you're not going to get a .303 Enfield that's in desirable condition. I would think that $400 is a more realistic minimum for a decent Enfield. I've paid more than that for No. 4's, and they still needed the wood to be replaced.

Also, this is an area in which personal inspection is paramount. You shouldn't buy these guns sight unseen, or even on the basis of pictures posted on the Internet. I buy all my collectible guns at gun shows these days. Condition is everything. You're eventually going to regret buying guns that are in less than excellent condition.

And this, btw, is one reason why a C&R license is of limited use to me. If you're only buying guns face to face at gun shows, a license usually isn't needed.
 
Here is a different direction you could go,,,

Here is a different direction you could go,,,
And I believe it is still easy enough to find them.

Consider the rimfire training versions of centerfire rifles.

The DSM-34 and KKW compliment the German K98 Mausers,,,
WZ-48 Polish Trainers compliment the M44 Nagant,,,
.22 Lee-Enfield's can be found if you look.

They aren't everyone's cup-of-tea,,,
But since no one has mentioned them yet,,,
I thought I would be the first to suggest looking at them.

Here's a pic of a WZ-48 I just purchased,,,
It's 1950 date puts it one year older than I am.

151020-WZ-48_ProfileInCase-LR.jpg

This old girl is a great shooter,,,
Easily as precise as any of my other rimfire rifles.

Just my 2-cents,,,

Aarond

.
 
Whatever you buy, you should buy some GO/NO GO gauges in the chamberings you're interested in acquiring; that way when you see your potential rifle in the used rack, you can check its headspace on the spot.

DO NOT take a salesman's word that he checked the headspace and it's fine. Especially if it's a rifle with non-matching serial numbers. I have found most gun salesmen to be in the same ilk as used car salesmen, YMMV.
 
Get a K31, they are built like the figurative Swiss watch, are buttery-smooth with their straight-pull design that is very fast handling, and they fire the potent 7.5x55 which is accurate, and power-wise, is right up there with .308.
 
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