Which CC auto 9MM and why?
- Thread starter gifbohane
- Start date
Bcwitt
Member
Id really like to lay hands on a Hellcat. Havent yet, but that should basically double the firepower of my j frame.
JR24
Member
My general preference in 9mm is a Glock 19, or something of that size (CZ, HK, Springfield, S&W and others make the same size 4” barrel 5” height guns) because it’s a good compromise for me to carry and shoot well.
Of the options you listed, I prefer the 365xl, I have 2 and mine work great with no failure to lock back or any stoppages in a few thousand rounds each, mostly handloads. I do replace the frame with a Wilson Combat though, to better fit my hand.
Try a few if you can, see what fits your hands and what you like to shoot. These days all should be reliable.
Of the options you listed, I prefer the 365xl, I have 2 and mine work great with no failure to lock back or any stoppages in a few thousand rounds each, mostly handloads. I do replace the frame with a Wilson Combat though, to better fit my hand.
Try a few if you can, see what fits your hands and what you like to shoot. These days all should be reliable.
halfmoonclip
Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2011
- Messages
- 2,793
Another, resounding, vote for the P365. I like the original, bone stock. It is pocketable with an Alabama kydex.
Mine have been stone reliable, and remain pleasant to shoot with handloads/Blazer Brass/SIG 365 defensive ammo. All clock around 1100'sec.
I've added the factory manual safety, and prefer the flat floorplates for concealment.
The metal trigger has an excellent feel, and quick, smooth release.
Finally, it's modular. You can add a longer gripmodule, Wilson, or other aftermarket modules. As long as you have the fire control group, you can configure it any way you please.
A buddy/Glock fanboi tried not to like his; he has finally bowed to the inevitable. It's simply a great pistol. It works, and you can hit with it.
Moon
Mine have been stone reliable, and remain pleasant to shoot with handloads/Blazer Brass/SIG 365 defensive ammo. All clock around 1100'sec.
I've added the factory manual safety, and prefer the flat floorplates for concealment.
The metal trigger has an excellent feel, and quick, smooth release.
Finally, it's modular. You can add a longer gripmodule, Wilson, or other aftermarket modules. As long as you have the fire control group, you can configure it any way you please.
A buddy/Glock fanboi tried not to like his; he has finally bowed to the inevitable. It's simply a great pistol. It works, and you can hit with it.
Moon
doubleh
Member
I am a dinosaur I suppose. I prefer pistols to have hammers and safeties. I have tried to like the others but just can't quite make the leap. If the Smith CSX has DA capability that is what I would choose. My son-in- law bought one last year and I really like it but there is that SA thing. I had a Sig 367 XL for a time but gave it to my daughter. I should have waited for one with the optional safety but didn't. I could have lived with it. #1 grandson got an excellent buy on a hellcat from a friend a few years ago. I shot and did not care for it. He has been fiddling with aftermarket parts and I can see some improvement although I still wouldn't want it. He continues to look at other options.
Ks5shooter
Contributing Member
All day every day.......concealable,intuitive as are all my Glocks.
bannockburn
Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 26,307
I tried most of the leading micro 9mm.s (Springfield Armory Micro-Compact Hellcat, SIG P365 and P365X, Glock G43 and G43X, Glock G48, and S&W Model Shield Plus. Ended up buying four out of the seven, they were that good!
The first one to get cut was the Hellcat as I didn't care for the size, shape, and angle of the grip; same thing with the P365 and the G43. Even though I have small size hands, the overall size of the grip was just a little too abbreviated and didn't feel comfortable when I held it. Found the "X" version of the P365 and the G43 and G48, was the sweet spot for me in that the larger grip felt perfectly at home in my hand and was overall very accommodating. Now the Shield Plus was also a bit short in the grip too but using the 13 round mag gave me the same full size grip that I was getting with the other guns.
Now to give them a preferential order:
1) SIG P365X
2) S&W Shield Plus
3) Glock G48
4) Glock Model 43X.
To put it in perspective the P365X just had the best all-around feeling to it, great night sights, and the best trigger of the group. The Shield Plus came in second with a decent trigger, decent night sights, along with some nice ergonomics. I had originally planed on getting just the G43X as it was on sale at the time, but fortunately they were out of stock on them! I say fortunately because I decided to check out the G48 and I liked it as much as the G43X. It felt like a much bigger pistol without the added weight and size. It had great handling and balance qualities to it and a slightly longer sight radius; and it was also on sale. A couple of weeks later I picked up the G43X once the LGS got them back in stock.
The first one to get cut was the Hellcat as I didn't care for the size, shape, and angle of the grip; same thing with the P365 and the G43. Even though I have small size hands, the overall size of the grip was just a little too abbreviated and didn't feel comfortable when I held it. Found the "X" version of the P365 and the G43 and G48, was the sweet spot for me in that the larger grip felt perfectly at home in my hand and was overall very accommodating. Now the Shield Plus was also a bit short in the grip too but using the 13 round mag gave me the same full size grip that I was getting with the other guns.
Now to give them a preferential order:
1) SIG P365X
2) S&W Shield Plus
3) Glock G48
4) Glock Model 43X.
To put it in perspective the P365X just had the best all-around feeling to it, great night sights, and the best trigger of the group. The Shield Plus came in second with a decent trigger, decent night sights, along with some nice ergonomics. I had originally planed on getting just the G43X as it was on sale at the time, but fortunately they were out of stock on them! I say fortunately because I decided to check out the G48 and I liked it as much as the G43X. It felt like a much bigger pistol without the added weight and size. It had great handling and balance qualities to it and a slightly longer sight radius; and it was also on sale. A couple of weeks later I picked up the G43X once the LGS got them back in stock.
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Zendude
Member
Have you tried anything 1911-ish, like a Springfield EMP ?
InTheSwamp
Member
That ain't no Glock. That's a Glockstein or a Frankenglock...
Charlie98
Member
That would be my suggestion as well. I understand... standing there in front of a case with 30 pieces suitable for carry is a little intimidating, but it sounds like you've weeded some out. Pick 5 of your favorites, and maybe one dark horse, and give them a test drive.
There are a number of aspects to a CCW weapon... here's my .02 worth...
1) It sounds like you've settled on OWB carry. Originally, I was sold on IWB, but in draw and shoot drills, my times sucked, and my accuracy suffered because I couldn't get a good handle on my weapon trying to draw it from inside. I am now a diehard OWB carrier, unless I just have to pack it IWB for concealment purposes.
2) Don't automatically settle for the smallest pistol, or even the next smallest pistol... find something that FITS YOUR HAND. My original 9mm carry piece, a Kahr CW9, was stolen out of my truck. In desperation, I bought the only thing I could find... a Kahr CM9, which is about 1/2" shorter in both directions. I cannot reliably draw that pistol from concealment, present, and shoot well enough to trust my life to it... because of the size. But... but... it's only one round shorter?!?! Yes.... and that loss of grip space makes me look like Fumble Fingers when I draw and present. I do not have that problem with my CW9.
3) Find a trigger you can work with. I've shot a fair amount of typical CCW carry triggers... some are great, some are tolerable, some just outright stink. That circles back to pistol rental... if you can't properly control a trigger on the target range, how well do you think you will do at The Moment of Truth?
4) What do you want in a safety? This can be a polarizing question... there are those that insist on a thumb safety, some trust the trigger safety, some want everything.
As I mentioned, I now carry a Kahr CW9 (primarily) or a CM9 (when I have no choice.) They work really well... for me. Some people snivel about the trigger, but in reality, it's just like a long DA revolver trigger pull. I like it much better than most of the trigger dongles I've fired... but that is, of course, a matter of taste. The Kahr does not have an external safety, the safety... just like a DA revolver... is the long trigger pull.
My first target with the Kahr CW9... obviously, it was a keeper...
Big7
Member
I'm liking the new Taurus Gen2 and Gen3 Full, Compact and Sub Compact the more I carry them. They have smoothed out the lines of late and they are not so much the "box" like the Glocks anymore and they are using injection molded, glass filled nylon which is one of the best polymers available for the application.
All Taurus firearms are +P rated and they are tough as nails. I 5 Taurus pistols and 1 revolver and I LOVE THEM. YOU CAN'T GO WRONG WITH A TAURUS.
ON THE OTHER HAND,
Y'all know I love my RUGERS!! Just got the new EC9 S and it's a winner. Only slightly larger than the LCP, it is of course 9MM PARA rather than 380 ACP and it's 7+1 for 1 more shot. Fits in a front pants pocket without a holster and rides just fine.
I'm rotating it in and it will be my primary EDC very soon. YOU CAN'T GO WRONG WITH A RUGER.
All Taurus firearms are +P rated and they are tough as nails. I 5 Taurus pistols and 1 revolver and I LOVE THEM. YOU CAN'T GO WRONG WITH A TAURUS.
ON THE OTHER HAND,
Y'all know I love my RUGERS!! Just got the new EC9 S and it's a winner. Only slightly larger than the LCP, it is of course 9MM PARA rather than 380 ACP and it's 7+1 for 1 more shot. Fits in a front pants pocket without a holster and rides just fine.
I'm rotating it in and it will be my primary EDC very soon. YOU CAN'T GO WRONG WITH A RUGER.
Hangingrock
Member
I practice the avoidance of stupid people, places and things. If for some reason there is a failure I conceal carry a S&W Shield 9mm.
I switched from a Glock 19 to the SIG Sauer P365 without safety a few years ago and shoot the P365 pretty much every time I go to the range. I carry it mostly with the 15rd mags because I can grip the gun better when I draw. No problems with the gun so far and the finish holds up pretty well for a cheap gun that gets carried a lot and sees little care.
luzyfuerza
Member
I prefer defensive guns that are a little bigger and a little heavier.
This differs from those many commenters here have chosen. And my criteria are a bit different than the OP's.
For years, I carried an XD45C gen 1 IWB in a Sparks VersaMax 2 strongside. Now that the XD has been largely discontinued, I've switched to an M&P9C in the same model holster.
Although my scores in standardized tests with my daughter's P365 and my wife's Shield9 EZ are perfectly acceptable, I've found my drawstroke is a bit more consistent, my times to first shot are a little faster, my splits a little shorter, and my groups a little smaller with the bigger guns.
I don't think that these differences would make a huge difference in a gunfight. But they do increase confidence.
And that's why I've stuck with bigger and heavier.
This differs from those many commenters here have chosen. And my criteria are a bit different than the OP's.
For years, I carried an XD45C gen 1 IWB in a Sparks VersaMax 2 strongside. Now that the XD has been largely discontinued, I've switched to an M&P9C in the same model holster.
Although my scores in standardized tests with my daughter's P365 and my wife's Shield9 EZ are perfectly acceptable, I've found my drawstroke is a bit more consistent, my times to first shot are a little faster, my splits a little shorter, and my groups a little smaller with the bigger guns.
I don't think that these differences would make a huge difference in a gunfight. But they do increase confidence.
And that's why I've stuck with bigger and heavier.
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luzyfuerza
Member
One finer point to make about choosing a defensive handgun:
Make sure that the gun size and shape allows for proper placement and movement of your trigger finger.
First, make sure that the pad (or distal joint, depending on the trigger action you prefer) rests properly on the trigger. For striker or single action pistols, most shooters place the pad of the outermost segment of the index finger on the trigger. For DAO, DA/SA, or DA revolver actions, many shooters prefer to put the distal joint on the trigger.
Second, with your finger properly placed on the trigger, make sure that no other part of your trigger finger is touching the frame of the gun. Make sure this is the case through the entire trigger stroke (or both strokes if using DA/SA gun). If another part of your trigger finger IS touching, you'll likely have a difficult time keeping your sights from moving off the target during the trigger press.
Third, make sure that you can get your trigger finger onto the trigger from the register position (trigger finger off the trigger, on the side of the frame) smoothly and easily. For example, the only way that I can get my index finger from register to the trigger using my S&W 442 backup gun with its stock grip is to shift my hand placement on the grip. My index finger isn't flexible enough to slide directly onto the trigger. Because my grip was constantly changing, speed and accuracy with the 442 was not good until I figured this out.
Fourth, perform these same checks with your non-dominant hand. We fire defensive handguns with both hands, and our hands are not perfect mirror images of each other.
Either change the grip, or choose a different gun if any of these are an issue for you and your hands.
Make sure that the gun size and shape allows for proper placement and movement of your trigger finger.
First, make sure that the pad (or distal joint, depending on the trigger action you prefer) rests properly on the trigger. For striker or single action pistols, most shooters place the pad of the outermost segment of the index finger on the trigger. For DAO, DA/SA, or DA revolver actions, many shooters prefer to put the distal joint on the trigger.
Second, with your finger properly placed on the trigger, make sure that no other part of your trigger finger is touching the frame of the gun. Make sure this is the case through the entire trigger stroke (or both strokes if using DA/SA gun). If another part of your trigger finger IS touching, you'll likely have a difficult time keeping your sights from moving off the target during the trigger press.
Third, make sure that you can get your trigger finger onto the trigger from the register position (trigger finger off the trigger, on the side of the frame) smoothly and easily. For example, the only way that I can get my index finger from register to the trigger using my S&W 442 backup gun with its stock grip is to shift my hand placement on the grip. My index finger isn't flexible enough to slide directly onto the trigger. Because my grip was constantly changing, speed and accuracy with the 442 was not good until I figured this out.
Fourth, perform these same checks with your non-dominant hand. We fire defensive handguns with both hands, and our hands are not perfect mirror images of each other.
Either change the grip, or choose a different gun if any of these are an issue for you and your hands.
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luzyfuerza
Member
One last observation:
I want a great defensive gun that I can carry and conceal.
Not, above all else, a gun that is easy to carry.
I want a great defensive gun that I can carry and conceal.
Not, above all else, a gun that is easy to carry.
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The P365 is just fantastic. Plus, it’s modular. They sell three different grip lengths, two different slide lengths, and 10/12/15/17 round mags available. You can pick any grip length you want, any slide length you want, and any magazine capacity you want. Mix and match to whatever fits and suits you best. I prefer the XL grip length with the short slide and 12 round mags, with a 17 round mag as a reload on my belt.
I nominate the the Glock G26. Why?
1. Long-established reputation of reliability. Really long, extensive history. The G26 has aged well.
1a. There are credible reports of problems with the recoil spring assemblies, in the G43/G48.
2. The G26 can accept G19- and G17-length magazines.
2a. In my personal case, the most-perfect pinky finger rest is a G19 magazine. When it does not compromise conceal-ability, this is a nice option.
3. My individual, personal hands perform better with a G26 than with narrower-bodied compact nines. Others’ hands will vary, of course.
4. The G26 has enough of a difference in size, compared to its “parent” G17, to make a truly fundamental difference in conceal-ability, at least on my individual body.
4a. A G19 is about as difficult for me to conceal as a G17, and, because I shoot a G17 noticeable better than I shoot a G17, I have little to no use for the G19.
5. With some trousers, including my PD-issued uniform trousers, I have successfully used an ankle rig to conceal a G26. This makes the G26 an ideal secondary weapon, for folks like me, who have/had a reason to be using a larger Glocks. Familiarity simplifies things. Familiarity is a good thing, when things become highly stressful. I fired plenty of quals with G22 pistols early in this century, and then with G17 duty pistols in the twilight of my LE career, 2015 to 2017, and then during my retiree quals, since then.
6. Related to #5, during LE training, and during some private training on my own dime, I fired Glock “sim” guns, with good effect. I made some amazing hits, that bolstered my confidence in my accuracy, under stress, with the Glock double-column-mag platform. Force-on-force training is better than competition, in inducing stress Into one’s shooting.
7. As I have aged-out of high-volume shooting of compact pistols, it is best for me to use a compact pistol that works in the same way as a larger, more “orthopedic” pistol. I do believe that it is necessary to fire some number of live-fired rounds, through the smaller gun, but, most of the practice rounds can be fired from the larger G17, with gripping surfaces for everything except the pinky being the same, plus, an identical trigger reach dimension, and an identical trigger pull. No need to remember to place my thumb just so, or crook this joint of my trigger finger just so. Just grab, with a long-habituated grip, on a double-column-mag Glock nine, and when the weapon is aligned with a target, the trigger finger performs a long-habituated movement onto the fave of the Glock trigger.
I say this, even though my heart sometimes longs to try other compact nines. By age 60, I concluded that it makes sense to settle upon just this one. For goodness’ sake, I had been trying all manner of compact nines since the early Nineties. I now have Gen3, Gen4, and Gen5 Glock G26 pistols. I may collect others, from time to time, but there no need to carry a collection. I’ll keep them separate, in the case of compact pistols.
This same principle applies to other auto-pistol systems. Glocks to not fit everyone, so, I am not trying to persuade anyone else to adopt the G26 for this role. Fit is important. Best fit is not what always “feels best” in the hand. Glocks do not “feel” best, in my hands, but they do fit, if Gen3 or newer, and especially Gen4 and Gen5. Sometimes, we need some help, in sorting out what fits.
1. Long-established reputation of reliability. Really long, extensive history. The G26 has aged well.
1a. There are credible reports of problems with the recoil spring assemblies, in the G43/G48.
2. The G26 can accept G19- and G17-length magazines.
2a. In my personal case, the most-perfect pinky finger rest is a G19 magazine. When it does not compromise conceal-ability, this is a nice option.
3. My individual, personal hands perform better with a G26 than with narrower-bodied compact nines. Others’ hands will vary, of course.
4. The G26 has enough of a difference in size, compared to its “parent” G17, to make a truly fundamental difference in conceal-ability, at least on my individual body.
4a. A G19 is about as difficult for me to conceal as a G17, and, because I shoot a G17 noticeable better than I shoot a G17, I have little to no use for the G19.
5. With some trousers, including my PD-issued uniform trousers, I have successfully used an ankle rig to conceal a G26. This makes the G26 an ideal secondary weapon, for folks like me, who have/had a reason to be using a larger Glocks. Familiarity simplifies things. Familiarity is a good thing, when things become highly stressful. I fired plenty of quals with G22 pistols early in this century, and then with G17 duty pistols in the twilight of my LE career, 2015 to 2017, and then during my retiree quals, since then.
6. Related to #5, during LE training, and during some private training on my own dime, I fired Glock “sim” guns, with good effect. I made some amazing hits, that bolstered my confidence in my accuracy, under stress, with the Glock double-column-mag platform. Force-on-force training is better than competition, in inducing stress Into one’s shooting.
7. As I have aged-out of high-volume shooting of compact pistols, it is best for me to use a compact pistol that works in the same way as a larger, more “orthopedic” pistol. I do believe that it is necessary to fire some number of live-fired rounds, through the smaller gun, but, most of the practice rounds can be fired from the larger G17, with gripping surfaces for everything except the pinky being the same, plus, an identical trigger reach dimension, and an identical trigger pull. No need to remember to place my thumb just so, or crook this joint of my trigger finger just so. Just grab, with a long-habituated grip, on a double-column-mag Glock nine, and when the weapon is aligned with a target, the trigger finger performs a long-habituated movement onto the fave of the Glock trigger.
I say this, even though my heart sometimes longs to try other compact nines. By age 60, I concluded that it makes sense to settle upon just this one. For goodness’ sake, I had been trying all manner of compact nines since the early Nineties. I now have Gen3, Gen4, and Gen5 Glock G26 pistols. I may collect others, from time to time, but there no need to carry a collection. I’ll keep them separate, in the case of compact pistols.
This same principle applies to other auto-pistol systems. Glocks to not fit everyone, so, I am not trying to persuade anyone else to adopt the G26 for this role. Fit is important. Best fit is not what always “feels best” in the hand. Glocks do not “feel” best, in my hands, but they do fit, if Gen3 or newer, and especially Gen4 and Gen5. Sometimes, we need some help, in sorting out what fits.
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I will elaborate, just a bit more, on the utility of a compact that shares mags with the larger “parent” pistol. There are times I carry a Glock G17 as “bag gun,” especially when on road trips, or when going to a destination at which carrying a sling bag, or such, blends well. If my compact pistol can eat from the same lunch boxes as my bag guns, ammo logistics are simplified. The bag, which contains the G17, can also tote such things as my somewhat-bulky sunglasses, personal care and med items that we need as we get older, and such things. Obviously, a bag with a firearm inside, should NEVER be set down. Keep that strap ON the body.
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Quoted, for truth.
Terry G
Member
I bought a Taurus G3 in an impulse (Imagine that) and am quite pleased with the gun all the way around and I'm a CZ guy. $300.00 OTD? Hard to beat.Two others that will make some here groan, moan and rail against these options are the Taurus G3 and the Taurus TH9 Compact (external hammer). Despite what some here lost in the past will tell you they are both excellent, reliable firearms with a whole new focus on costumer service and warranty turnaround times if needed. Been that way for a little while now.
I own a G3, that thing is amazing. It ain't your father's Taurus.......
NMexJim
Member
I have an EMP and a Cross Breed IWB holster. Too big, too heavy for all day.
