JCooperfan1911
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Colt.
Or Windham.
Or Windham.
Which Factory AR?
- Thread starter Olympus
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DustyGmt
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Do you believe that a $700 AR won't withstand the rigors of a few classes?
I think if someone today picked ten new $700 ARs and ten new Colt 6920s and gave them to students to use in classes, the $700 ARs would have more failures.
Over the internet, I suggest buying known quality ARs such as the Colt because I want people to be able to go shoot as simply as possible and not have to cut their range trip short because of malfunctions. I don't want people to shoot three or four boxes through their new AR, then stick it in the back of the safe. I want people to go shoot a couple times a month and take friends & family.
If someone lives close by and insists on a cheap AR, ok. Let's try it. Maybe it will shoot thousands of rounds without a problem. Maybe it won't and I can show them how to diagnose the problem and fix it. The good news is, once a problematic AR is sorted out, they'll run a long time.
I'm grateful for cheap ARs. If it wasn't for dealing with their malfunctions, I wouldn't know a tenth of what I know about ARs.
I had a Stag 2T - it was a solid weapon and well made. I gave it to my son, or I would still own it.
Not on your list (and maybe ruled out for another reason) is the Sig M400 TREAD. I bought one back in Feb and you can find them for under $1,000.
Not on your list (and maybe ruled out for another reason) is the Sig M400 TREAD. I bought one back in Feb and you can find them for under $1,000.
Oldschool shooter
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Pre-Covid and Pre- Biden I bought an A4 style carbine from Palmetto State Armory and it has been flawless in operation. $400 plus tax.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
If all those were side by side in a local gun shop, I'd pick the Ruger on outward appearances. I sure like how that handguard doesn't have a top rail all the way down it. I'd install some metal sights and a red dot and go shootin'.
OP
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Olympus
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Just for additional input, but I'm not a Colt fan in any way shape or form. Colt quality, IMO, has significantly declined over the years. Not to mention, they use carbine gas system for pretty much all of their guns. Aside from being reliable in the harshest conditions (which I don't live in), I see absolutely no reason to buy a 16" 5.56 rifle with carbine gas system in this day and age. Colt is a hard no for me.
And here's the beauty of the free enterprise system -- plenty of other people (myself included) prefer the full top rail like the Stag for the flexibility it offers for mounting optics. I have a partial rail on my AR-10, and I end up having to mount the scope just a skosh too close for my comfort because the rail ends. The same with the red dot/magnifier combo on my Sig M400 TREAD.
Thank goodness for a market that gives us options!
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Olympus
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Outsourced parts, dremel touch ups to feed ramps, ex-employee reports, and the fact that Colt as a company relied to heavy on their past reputation rather than being innovative or keeping up with the times.
Yes, I’ve shot a 6920. Didn’t notice anything overly impressive about it. Felt like shooting a 25 year old configuration AR. If I wanted to shoot a dated configuration, I’d go with an M16 variant.
I’m not here to argue about Colt though. If you like them, I’m not trying to convince you not to. Same as I’m not here to be talked into one. Haven’t seen a Colt anything in the last 10 years worth the price tag to me. Your mileage may vary.
BreechFace
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Agreed, the full rail is completely lost on me, unnecessary, ugly and not enjoyable grabbing when shooting. Maybe if one is using NODS and needs a peq, but there are other ways of handling mounting those as well that doesn't leave one with a bunch of unused rail.
With offset scope mounts one should never be utilizing the handguard rail for optics, its best for optics to be firmly attached to the upper receiver for best long term results.
Skylerbone
Member
I’m not partial to any of the listed though I’d not have a problem beyond price in owning one. While not an official selection, if I were buying a complete rifle or complete upper/complete lower combo, I’d go with Sons of Liberty or Aero Precision.
Aero in particular has a myriad of complete upper options, none of which comes furnished with a BCG. Ideal as you won’t be locked into a sub-standard unit that fails you. Aero makes fat, skinny, MOE equipped, and what I call finless options with their Quantum rails.
SOLGW while more hardcore, for lack of a better term, also offers configured uppers minus handguard, allowing you to pick what you like.
Looking just forward the magwell you can see the typical handguard attachment method using bolts to clamp closed.
Phase 5 eliminated the clamp with a barrel nut that is timed.
An Aero Quantum, again clocked to barrel nut and interrupted top rail.
Aero in particular has a myriad of complete upper options, none of which comes furnished with a BCG. Ideal as you won’t be locked into a sub-standard unit that fails you. Aero makes fat, skinny, MOE equipped, and what I call finless options with their Quantum rails.
SOLGW while more hardcore, for lack of a better term, also offers configured uppers minus handguard, allowing you to pick what you like.
Looking just forward the magwell you can see the typical handguard attachment method using bolts to clamp closed.
Phase 5 eliminated the clamp with a barrel nut that is timed.
An Aero Quantum, again clocked to barrel nut and interrupted top rail.
sarduy
Member
you do know that some colt lowers are made by Anderson right? Yeah that same poverty pony That some people trash Because you could get them for 39.00.
This isn't about talking you into a Colt or not. I asked these questions because I wanted to get a feel for how you're evaluating ARs, your level of education, experience and bias.
There has been very little actual innovating in the AR market. Period. Everything everyone has done to the AR has been simply adding features or minor refinements- Free float handguards, smoothed up triggers, different variations of grips, stocks and handguards, ambi controls.
The exception to this is Knights Armament. They have not only made refinements to the AR, but actual improvements.
The few times Colt has put forth something innovative, they haven't sold well. The Colt CCU is quite possibly the best factory made free floated 16 inch middy AR to hit the market. Gas drive was correct. Buffer was correct. Springs made correctly. All materials used are recognized by the industry as the best. Good precision. Yet Colt had to slash the selling price to move them.
So what, if the 6920 shoots like a 25 year old AR. What AR doesn't? A Econo brand AR that starts malfunctioning because the maker spec'ed an M16 extractor spring instead of a Colt or Sprinco extractor spring? Or has sharper recoil because a carbine buffer was used and/or the gas port is too large because Joe Bubba wants to shoot underpowered steel ammo?
Yes, a middy gas system is an improvement to the carbine gas system- and the rifle gas system is an improvement over the middy. All three gas system with the correct gas port, buffer and spring are excellent performers.
Bottom line is, the Colt 6920, even today with its perceived failings, uses correct specs and right materials and is built better than any of the three rifles you asked about at the beginning of this thread. Colts work.
Zerodefect
member
This is what appears to be the best Colt out there:
Colt OEM2 stripper. Factory AR, you can add your stock and rail of choice.
Colt OEM2 stripper. Factory AR, you can add your stock and rail of choice.
sarduy
Member
tell that to my Aero Precision 11.5 or 14.5 build or even to my PSA 10.5
if you shoot quality ammo and maintained your gun clean and oiled, they last a very long time.
Zerodefect
member
Stag 15 bones:
sarduy
Member
At this point in current times, I would recommend a PSA as a first AR so you can build an foundation. Then after getting some training and figuring out what you really like best. Then go ahead and build one exactly tailored to your needs based on your experience.
OP
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Olympus
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I appreciate what you’re saying. I’ll wait and see what changes happen with Colt now that the CZ merger is done before making a decision to buy another Colt or not. But I can definitely say I won’t be buying anything with a carbine gas system. I just don’t see any benefits for me. I’ll stick to mid length options.
OP
OP
Olympus
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This would not be my first AR. I just thought it might be a good idea to try a factory option for once. Never had a factory AR.
DustyGmt
Member
I kind of wanted to try a SOLGW but I don't need another AR. But I have heard good things and the unconditional warrantee is nice. If I was buying off the rack, I agree. I would probably take a shot on a SOLGW complete rifle if I were shopping in the $1000 range.....
ETA: SOLGW owner put his cell online and apparently fields call any time of day or night and will sort out any problems even if it's your fail at no cost to you. That's worth a bit imo.
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Nice setups!tell that to my Aero Precision 11.5 or 14.5 build or even to my PSA 10.5
if you shoot quality ammo and maintained your gun clean and oiled, they last a very long time.
As I said in an earlier post- the good news is, once you get an AR sorted out, it runs a long time.
While my experience with PSA has overall been positive, it still needed to be sorted out. Bad extractor spring, feed ramp issue, carbine buffer (which is too light), action spring didn't last long, gas rings wore out quickly.
I had homebuilts using bin parts that needed sorting out- mislocated gas port, gas port excessively large, bad extractor springs, worn gas rings, leaky gas key.
The only problem I had with any of my Colts was lubing it with Froglube without removing every last bit of whatever Colt uses for a preservative. When the two mixed, it glued everything tight!
I've had a chance to examine a 6920 built post merger. It looked well built. No dremeling of the feed ramps.
I wish I could say you'd notice no difference. The middy is just a bit smoother- if the gas port is right and an H or H2 buffer is used. If a carbine buffer is used and/or the gas port is too large on a middy, the 16" barrel Colt carbine gas is smoother.
I replaced the Colt 16" with a 14.5" SOCOM barrel. I like that much better!
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sarduy
Member
This
$119.00
https://palmettostatearmory.com/blem-psa-ar15-complete-classic-stealth-lower-black.html
or this with magpul stock and grip for 149.00
https://palmettostatearmory.com//blem-psa-ar-15-complete-moe-stealth-lower-black.html
plus this
339.00
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...eight-m-lok-upper-with-bcg-ch-5165450023.html
A good rifle for less than 500.00
that’s a lot of spare money for ammo and bcm extractor kit
$119.00
https://palmettostatearmory.com/blem-psa-ar15-complete-classic-stealth-lower-black.html
or this with magpul stock and grip for 149.00
https://palmettostatearmory.com//blem-psa-ar-15-complete-moe-stealth-lower-black.html
plus this
339.00
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...eight-m-lok-upper-with-bcg-ch-5165450023.html
A good rifle for less than 500.00
that’s a lot of spare money for ammo and bcm extractor kit
DustyGmt
Member
That, and using Froglube period is pretty bad for business, no?
I no longer use Froglube except as a drill lube. It works amazingly well as drill lube.
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