Which kicks harder, 45-70 or shotgun shooting slugs?

[scythefwd]

Seriously, which will beat you up more? I hear about the massive recoil from the .45-70 every now and again, but after looking at the numbers on some factory loads I don't see why.

I am seeing .45-70 loads using a 300gr bullet at 1880 fps. The slugs I shoot are either 438 grains at 1600 fps or 400 grains at 1700 fps. The recoil calculator at beartooth bullets shows that the shotgun is way heavier recoiling. For those who have shot both, preferable from an interchangeable barreled gun, do you find this to be true?

Just one of those curiosity things.

 

[JWF III]

It all depends on the guns.

A Trapdoor (rifle), shooting Trapdoor loads, the shotgun would easily beat out. A Marlin, or a Ruger, shooting Garrets or Corbons will probably beat out the shotgun. An old break-open, single-shot, 12 gauge, will probably beat out anything.

Then there's the whole stock fit thing. Any gun that fits you well, is going to kick you less than one that doesn't (in similar cartridges).

Wyman

 

[tango2echo]

+1


t2e

 

[TomADC]

My trapdoor isn't real bad even with 405gr bullets but slugs kick harder IMHO.

 

[scythefwd]

Well, the 45-70 barrel I am looking at is for a single shot rifle weighing in at about 8.5 lbs (with a bull barrel). My shotgun weighs between 7.5 and 9 lbs depending on which barrel I have in it. The hardest kicking slugs are when I use the lighter barrel.

 

[browningguy]

My Browning 1885 using standard factory loads is a pussycat, even with the curved steel butt plate. But when you load it up with 400 gr. bullets at 2300 FPS it will put a butt whuppin on you.

 

[jpwilly]

IMO both are very similar but Magnum Slugs win out.

 

[usmc1371]

my guide gun is pretty fun with most factory 45-70 loads but the bufalo bore 405 grainers take all the fun out of it, other than those I would give the edge to the shotgun. I would rather shoot my 375 hnh over eathier the hot 45-70 or the slugs/3'' turkey loads. Shoot the 338-378 weatherby without the muzzle brake once and the shotgun won't feel all that bad even with the hottest slugs you can find..

 

[jpwilly]

^^^ No thanks I like my collar bone right where it is.

 

[LeonCarr]

IME Shotgun slugs kick more. In terms of foot-pounds of recoil, shooting 3 inch magnum 1 1/4 ounce slugs from an 18 inch barreled shotgun is like shooting 500 grain bullets from a .458 Winchester Magnum.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Maverick223]

It depends upon the guns...my Saiga S-12 shotgun is fairly easy recoiling due to the action...my buddies H&R single is well...vicious. In comparison my Browning 1885 High Wall is a bit worse than the S-12, but much lighter than a single. It sounds as ifyou are considering a 1885 or a Sharps 1874, so I think that you will be fine...they are relatively heavy, and just a BLAST to shoot. Get it and enjoy.

But when you load it up with 400 gr. bullets at 2300 FPS it will put a butt whuppin on you.

I am in the process of acquiring components to reload for my 1885...and want to create a few "special" reloads similar to the one you describe...any advice/recipes on how to get a 405gr. JSP to 2250-2300fps? It would save me ages in research and load development. Note: Don't worry, I still intend to work up to the load, I would just like a recipe to work up to. Thanks in advance.

 

[76shuvlinoff]

I wrecked my shoulder in a motorcycle accident 6 years ago.

I put a pad on my 30-30 and shoot my 870 from the hip. Big bores and magnum loads?.... fugetaboutit

 

[scythefwd]

Maverick,
Actually, I am looking at a 45-70 barrel for my optima elite which is a single shot break action .

405 Grain bullet 1852 fps...
54 grains of H322. MAX LOAD according to my lee manual. The closest I can get you is a

400 Grain Jacketed bullet at 2108 fps.
53 gr of H4198 .. also a MAX LOAD and has a pressure of 49100 PSI.

I don't have any load data for a 2200 fps or faster shot and I won't speculate if your gun can handle these loads. The manual states that these are "only for modern bolt actions or ruger single shot arms."

Now a 350 Gr. bullet will reach 2300 fps with only 56 grains of H4198. That is a compressed load and it will reach 50k psi.

76shuvlinoff - I want something suitable for all the game on my continent. My main round is a .308 or a .30-30 when I hunt rifle.

 

[nathan]

in my experience, the 12 g was more but the recoil pad help absorb the shock.
Now try the M 48 8 mm mauser using Turk surplus. That thing bruise my shoulder pretty bad after less than 50 rounds. But I had a good time shooting with it for cheap .

 

[Maverick223]

I don't have any load data for a 2200 fps or faster shot and I won't speculate if your gun can handle these loads. The manual states that these are "only for modern bolt actions or ruger single shot arms."

Thanks for the info., but I am looking for loads that exceed that velocity...FWIW the 1885 will handle anything that a Ruger No. 1 will, my Lyman's 49th Ed. lists a similar load as: 405Gr. Cast + 57.0Gr. XMR-2015 = 2063fps @ 38.7kCUP and that is out of a 24in. barrel...my 1885 has a 28" bbl.

 

[lefteyedom]

I have had a 45/70 single shot H&R handi rifle and my everyday in the truck gun is a single shot H&R 12 gauge with a 20" barrel. Hands down the shotgun kicks worse with slugs. You really have to want to shoot a slug out of that thing. The 45/70 with 405grn bullets was stout the light weight 12 Gauge with slugs is self punishment.... ( I am a sick pup)

 

[browningguy]

Maverick, PM sent.

 

[Maverick223]

Thanks BG, reply sent.

 

[Sunray]

"...which will beat you up more?..." Depends on the firearm.

 

[Nick5182]

From my experience, a 45-70 kicks like a 20 gauge without a recoil pad. I think the recoil is very manageable from a 45-70.

 

[Maverick223]

I can shoot that .30-06 all day with 165 gr. shells in it (220 gr. shells are a different story).

I am the same way, I had a ammo can full of old corrosive 06' that I burned up in the course of an afternoon...no problem, but firing that H&R all day...I'll pass. Mind you I don't consider myself recoil sensitive and have shot rifles up to .458WM/.416Rigby (bolt guns) and find the dangerous game rifles to be more pleasant to shoot despite the greater recoil.

 

[uvausmc]

I can shoot my Marlin 1895 Guide Gun with pretty heavy loads all day. My 870 with federal slugs is a different story. I'm not recoil sensitive but I can only stand so many slugs before i have to call it a day.

 

[scythefwd]

uvausmc,
I find my mossberg 500 with the federal slugs to be pretty comfortable (truball slugs, not sure if they are the hard hitting or the soft hitting in the lineup for federal).

 

[lencac]

I had a little Marlin lever-action moving 405 gr.ers at about 1900 fps handloads and it was an impressive handful but I think my Model 11 with slugs wins.
The 458 Win mag I had beats them both handily. That moved 500 gr. at 2400 fps. and I've seen stars shooting that thing

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The slugs I shoot are either 438 grains at 1600 fps or 400 grains at 1700 fps. The recoil calculator at beartooth bullets shows that the shotgun is way heavier recoiling.

Most shotguns have larger buttstocks than many rifles (in my experience). So the "heavier" recoil of the shotgun is actually spread out over a larger area and hence may not give the same perceived recoil pulse than if it was shot with a much more narrow buttstock. As already discussed, the weight of the firearms, barrel lengths, etc. all have a role to play. I have a better recoil system on my shotgun, so I can shoot it a lot more than my .45-70 (325 gr. Leverevolution ammo) off the bench. Of the bench, neither is truly comfortable to shooting. Offhand, I can shoot a lot more and more of my body moves with the recoil pulse, hence converting more into motion than into impact.

So what is it that you will be doing? If you are talking about 1-5 shots during hunting, neither should be a problem for you. If you are talking about shooting at the bench, both will likely become unfun for you inside of 10-20 rounds. Prone, won't be much better (if at all) than off the bench. Standing? I don't see why you should have problems before 30-50.

Note that you can get some of the reduced recoil slugs that tend to have a slightly slower powder and draw out the recoil over a longer period of time. Total recoil force may not be greatly reduced between 1300 pfs regular load slugs and 1300 fps reduced recoil slugs, but the recoil pulse will be longer, hence being more of a shove instead of impact, and hence beating you up less.