Which of these AKs should I buy?

[Greywolf]

Want to get an AK in 7.62x39 - already have a very nice stamped one made by Gunplumber in 5.45x39

I have the opportunity to buy a very lightly used Arsenal SA M7 for $1200 locally. But I have also seen the new Arsenal Saiga SGL21 rifles for $740 shipped.

So, I assume the SA M7 will weigh more due to it being milled. But other than the weight, is there a huge difference in accuracy, trigger feel/pull, etc. between the two? I mean, is there really a $460 difference?

 

[mshootnit]

I have owned 3 milled Arsenals and a few stamped rifles. The main difference to me is the the milled rifles function smoother and mine have been somewhat more accurate than the stamped rifles. My oldest rifle clover leafed for me at 100 a couple times. I do not think that the current stamped rifles give up much to the milled version. For that price difference I would go stamped. I don't think you will be missing much.

 

[philpost]

Not really. But some folks are particular, or have strong preferential beliefs about milled.

 

[philpost]

I have owned 3 milled Arsenals and a few stamped rifles. T

Were the stamped rifles also Arsenal?

 

[Greywolf]

Yeah, I was thinking that the extra $460 could be spent on ammo, an optic mount, and vodka

 

[1stmarine]

I converted several saigas and shoot the others and the saiga is 100% reliable and russian pedigree. get the timbersmith or modern polymer stock and done with $180 on top. nothing huge but up to mil spec from Russian plant of izmash.
Didn't find a reason to pay extra for the SGL but if branding and/or milled is important to you then it is a different story.

 

[mshootnit]

I have owned 2 stamped Arsenal rifles, 1 Romanian, 4 Saigas, 1 Vepr. Maybe a rifle I am forgetting...
Just talking specifically rifle to rifle comparison, my money would easily go toward a Saiga OVER a stamped Arsenal rifle right now. That is not to say that a given Arsenal might not be as good, but the general rule with the Saiga's right now is they are as accurate and straight as you are going to get. That's been my experience with the 308 and 5.45 anyway. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[RP88]

perhaps I have an overly simplistic and condescending opinion on the AK platform, but you aren't gonna get any extra performance out of an AK unless you give it a better trigger, stock, and decent optic/scope.

Save your money and get the SGL. Saigas will perform as well as or barely better than any other stock AK out there. No reason to put a lot of money into a gun that wasn't supposed to cost alot in the first place.

 

[Birdmang]

Saiga over arsenal. Stamped are just as good as milled.

Maybe I got a slick deal but a few months back I bought a pre ban romanian ak74, unfired, for $325 with 5 bakelite mags. If you look around you will find a deal.

^Its not your standard WASR either, this thing is awesome. I don't hate wasrs but you could get one of them, fix the cant if there is any, and spend the rest on ammo.

NAOLITH knows a lot and I trust his opinions on here and the akfiles he posts a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up in here.

 

[nalioth]

NAOLITH knows a lot and I trust his opinions on here and the akfiles he posts a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up in here.

The OP posted this same thread simultaneously on multiple forums (including the akfiles).

I don't see any reason for simultaneous answers

 

[Girodin]

I find it laughable to pay $740 for an AK and $1200 to be just ridiculous.

A self converted saiga offers all the function of those guns, or more, for less.

I'd also, state laws permitting, much rather have a SBRed Draco with a folder and an utlimak gas tube and a micro aimpoint for that kind of money.

 

[shadow9]

Technicality aside, but did half of the eastern and mid-eastern world put this much thought into the rifle they've been giving us a run with? No. IT'S AN AK. I understand your concern with quality, but seriously, few of us buy an AK platform to cloverleaf with. If it jams, you brace on your hip, yank back the handle, hold it while you whip out the stuck round, and let'er'rip.
My suggestion? Whatever decently-built, non-Angry-Beaver'd AK you can find for $600, and drop the rest of the money on 7.62x39, mags, and a nice 750ml of Stoli Elit...

 

[shadow9]

P.S. - surplus Wood trench, preferably black or muddy-brown, a fur-hat, surplus gasmask, and an old surplus east-bloc canteen. Ok, I'm getting carried away...however that has given me ideas for 2011 Halloween...

 

[1stmarine]

I am going to convert another saiga std AK-47 round using the timbersmith set from tapco. I will post the conversion so look for it if interested. The SGL from Izmash-legion cannot go wrong but personally I like to do it myself for fun. SGL is Russian pedigree too like the saigas but it is not clear what Arsenal does in the conversion back to AK form.
Whatever you choose with quality internals will serve you well. Make sure you choose an armorer/gunsmith that square them well.
Cheers.
E.

 

[sansone]

Not really. But some folks are particular, or have strong preferential beliefs about milled.

yes.. me too

edit; beautiful rifle above.. thanks for the pic

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I think I would go with the Arsenal.

 

[481]

Something about AK47s with milled receivers just appeals to me.

Yeah, they weigh a little more than their stamped counterparts, but that extra "heft" also helps to further soften the recoil of the 7.62x39, which is already a pussycat to shoot, making it all the softer. That attribute translates into longer, less tiring shooting sessions and that contributes to a shooter's performance no matter the caliber.

The milled receivers just exude an air of quality that no stamped and rivetted reciever ever will, so I'd go with the milled Arsenal since milled Arsenals are now going for $1550 or better new.

I picked up the six Arsenals (1 SAM7A1, 2 SAM7Rs, 3 SASM7s) that I have currently, all of them for less than $800 or $900 a piece new and have seen them appreciate significantly by virtue of the demand for them in the current market.

While there are those who'll argue that a stamped receiver is the equal of a milled receiver (and functionally they may be...) and is not worth the extra money, it is also interesting to note the premium that milled receivers continue to demand over stamped units despite this claim.

 

[nalioth]

it is also interesting to note the premium that milled receivers continue to demand over stamped units despite this claim

Easily explained by Arsenal, Inc's "interesting" marketing strategy.

Believe me, they ain't all that. . .

 

[481]

Easily explained by Arsenal, Inc's "interesting" marketing strategy.

Believe me, they ain't all that. . .

Since it is clearly evident that you don't own a milled receiver AK47 (Arsenal is not the only manufacturer of milled receivers, BTW, so it is not just their marketing model involved here), does being snotty make you feel better?

 

[nalioth]

Easily explained by Arsenal, Inc's "interesting" marketing strategy.

Believe me, they ain't all that. . .

Since it is clearly evident that you don't own a milled receiver AK47 (Arsenal is not the only manufacturer of milled receivers, BTW, so it is not just their marketing model involved here), does being snotty make you feel better?

Since it's evident that I don't show the proper "respect" for an obsolete design that has been cleverly marketed to create an almost cult-like following, you mean?

I have owned milled Arsenals.

They now belong to others who just had to have them and insisted on overpaying me for that privilege.

Guess the koolaid Arsenal is selling just doesn't appeal to me. . .

 

[481]

Since it's evident that I don't show the proper "respect" for an obsolete design that has been cleverly marketed to create an almost cult-like following, you mean?

I have owned milled Arsenals.

They now belong to others who just had to have them and insisted on overpaying me for that privilege.

Guess the koolaid Arsenal is selling just doesn't appeal to me. . .

My, my, my...what a bitter Betsy.

Your curt, argumentative "tone" conveys an emotional investment of some sort regarding the topic. Honestly, it ain't worth it. It's just a rifle, man.

Hope you get over whatever is bugging you.

 

[Greywolf]

I am learning, rapidly, thanks to a training course I'm in the middle of (second day was today, final day tomorrow) that it really comes down to training and fundamentals. Anything that can be done to make the fundamentals and training easier is helpful. I think I would rather have a reliable, functional, lighter and "accurate enough" rifle than a heavier rifle. Being a lot less money helps as well since this allows me to spend that saved money on ammo, training, etc.

I think I'm going to go with the SGL 21.

Thanks for the help and opinions, guys.

 

[1stmarine]

I am surprised you didn't go crazy.
Good choice. Cannot go wrong with that one!

 

[Girodin]

Milled guns offer zero practical advantage. Paying more for a gun that is only heavier and offers not practical functional advantage is not something that appeals to me.

My, my, my...what a bitter Betsy.

When people result to ad hominems that is a good indication of the strength of their arguments. In stead of deviating from forum rules and resulting to childish name calling and other logical fallacies why don't you just explain the functional advantages of the milled receiver gun.

Yeah, they weigh a little more than their stamped counterparts, but that extra "heft" also helps to further soften the recoil of the 7.62x39, which is already a pussycat to shoot, making it all the softer. That attribute translates into longer, less tiring shooting sessions and that contributes to a shooter's performance no matter the caliber.

I'd venture the additional weight will lead to fatigue and adverse performance much faster than recoil from the x39. Even my .308 AK is not a gun I would be interested in adding weight to for recoil reduction.

 

[Greywolf]

Good points, Girodin. Honestly your first few shots, if done correctly, should be all you need. However, if you are dealing with an extra 1/2 pound or more, you are much more likely, especially due to kinesiological effcts, to not do as well since you are dealing with more weight and gravity acting on your support arm for off-hand shots, which what will more than likely be the majority of your shots.

And honestly, I don't think most people even FEEL the recoil during a gun fight. I sure as hell didn't feel the recoil or noise (and I wasn't wearing ear protection) of my .30-06 rifle while I was hunting in Namibia.